Backing the Manager

What is a fair period to back a manager in this day and age?



Bit of a strange one coming into the season at Bury. We are finally doing normal transfer business, our joke of a chairman has kept well away from the limelight so we've heard no talk of 'when Bury get promoted or five year plans or 35,000 all seater stadiums fit for our established championship football club.'

Lowe is a relative rookie. He took over twice last season and saw an initial improvement before we slid to relegation with an utter whimper. Fans were divided over his appointment, many like me wanted a more experienced head but are happy to back him. The question is at what point do you decide it is fair to sack a manager?

Is ten games enough, or do the managers deserve longer?
Some people say Christmas. By that point, if the manager is out of control already, aka the joke that is Lee Clark, then the damage they may do in that time can be off the scale.
Does it depend on the circumstances, ie number of new signings, a system trying to implement etc, as opposed to erratic behaviour?
It is just so hard to decide.

I'd wager relegation is not an option for us, but we need stability. Many of our fans will be content with consolidation with some of the kids and none league signings hopefully making an impact. But at what point can it be decided that relegation is a real possibility and that a new man is needed?

If Lowe decides on a formation, opts to stick to it and it has us playing decent football and creating chances etc then I, and I think most of our fans will be patient with him. If we see negative, turgid, direct crap with no aim or logic, like what relegated us I will turn very quickly.

You look at the patience Ainsworth received at Wycombe and that paid off. Despite his first two seasons seeing a lower mid table finish and then near relegation before seeing them become a promotion contender.
Alternatively, Chesterfield fans will probably say Caldwell was given far too long after relegation last season and look how that ended up.

It is hard to decide so I am curious to hear other thoughts.

2 losses in a row and they lose all backing, just not good enough in this day and age.

In our case the next manager is already there, we wont worry about pay offs as we never bloody pay up.
I honestly think he will make a good fist of it and that is based on his new assistant (replacement)
We look so much better organised at the back but can we create and if Saul Shotton goes I will be bloody well pissed off.

We were atrocious at home all season long. It was only the decent away form that prevented Flitcroft getting sacked before he fucked off. He’s not a liked fella down here.

I think it’s a case of whether the players are decent but not being set up correctly or whether they are just shit and recruitment has been poor.

Either way it’s the end for the manager. If promotion is a realistic, expected aim before the season starts then no more than 15 games.

Managers deserve a season or two before being sacked. Minimum.

Fuck that. Fans aren’t stupid. They can recognise a tosspot manager when they see one.

Devon_Lad said:

Managers deserve a season or two before being sacked. Minimum.

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The thought of Lee Clark being at Bury for a season or 2 makes me want to puke!!!

KeithH said:

In our case the next manager is already there, we wont worry about pay offs as we never bloody pay up.
I honestly think he will make a good fist of it and that is based on his new assistant (replacement)
We look so much better organised at the back but can we create and if Saul Shotton goes I will be bloody well pissed off.

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Yes, I am expecting Styles to be in the team but I am also hoping Burgess, Cooney and Shotton to be in and around the starting lineup.

Obviously if we lose the opening game UTS and our mate Marv ill be demanding we sack the manager,

Very dependent on the owner/chairman situation. A fish rots from the head. Manager appointments and sackings or retention through hard times are often a reflection of either stability/instability in the boardroom or stagnation/new brooms in ownership.

I'll be surprised if Joe Dunne and Mark Bonner are not still in charge at the Abbey in 12 months time, even if we've flirted with relegation or finished with another mid-table deflation of hopes. That would change should new investment come over the horizon to let lifelong supporter and majority shareholder Paul Barry step back. That said, bullishness in the supporter base is at the usual pre-season high and rising - despite our (on paper) fragile looking strike force.

Lots of trigger happy owners and bullshit spouting managers out there if promotion aspirations are not met most seasons but I think less so this time around. Mansfield and Swindon look ripe for ructions if things don't go well but both owners are unlikely to jump early.

With the tight table, I think threat of relegation is likely to be the major driver that could impact on the thoughts of half the teams in the division by January. John Sheridan's inability to motivate the Notts County squad when things were going wrong, combined with the Cumbrian's recruitment to date, suggests to me that he'll be one of the first gone despite the level of inertia in their boardroom.

The relatively new faces at Vale, Grimsby, Oldham and Bury look vulnerable to a poor start, as does Mellon at Tranmere.

Apart from ourselves, the set ups that look most stable, because of a combination of expectations and a stable boardroom/ownership situation, include the likes of Crawley, Crewe, Exeter, Newport Lincoln, MK and Stevenage.

How Flitcroft manages in comparison to Evans could not possibly be anymore a polar opposite, so I think he has sort of been forgiven for those 10 odd games last season.

That being said especially considering the teams we play early on, anything below a ‘above average’ start and I think the fans will turn on him very quickly.

Weird one really, I mean he was considered pretty much shit at Swindon but they would have finished in the play-offs if he stayed, but at the same time he came in to a team on course to finish in the automatics at Mansfield and managed to finished outside the play offs.

I very much doubt we would have made the POs with Flitcroft. We were a busted flush before he left. Yet again, a squad of his was decimated by injuries plus a certain amount falling out with players

Forgiving lot clearly up the A60

For the last part of season, Flitcroft was spectacular . Impressively spectacular#handbrake

I honestly can't see Kewell getting the sack from here until February time. Regardless of results.The Turkish owner has stars in his eyes from Kewell's time in Istanbul.
The fans are divided roughly 60/40 against him because of his dull football style. Watching a keeper pass the ball backwards to the defenders is something I never even thought about. Seeing the keeper doing so from goal kicks gobsmacked me!
Any fans will want to win the league, winning 5-4 crackers every week, but we mostly have a sense of reality and as long as our team gives it a go and we see some good games we are a forgiving lot. It's when your team is poor and play in a poor style that the natives start getting restless. A month of that and the calls for his head will start.

Casey

The_Viking_Magpie said:

Forgiving lot clearly up the A60

For the last part of season, Flitcroft was spectacular . Impressively spectacular#handbrake

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We are seeing that the arrogant fat one had a lot of our fans fooled ,flitcroft,s signings have certainly got me excited for the season ahead ,where as some of evans signings that are on the list have not really attracted too much interest says it all really

Depends on how well the owner and manager get on.

Spanishstag said:

We are seeing that the arrogant fat one had a lot of our fans fooled ,flitcroft,s signings have certainly got me excited for the season ahead ,where as some of evans signings that are on the list have not really attracted too much interest says it all really

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Fatty McFatFat tends to fool a lot of fans, wherever he managers cos in the lower leagues he tends to get results

Spanishstag said:

We are seeing that the arrogant fat one had a lot of our fans fooled ,flitcroft,s signings have certainly got me excited for the season ahead ,where as some of evans signings that are on the list have not really attracted too much interest says it all really

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Ask Swindon fans about some of Flitcroft signings.

You are entering a bias vicious circle shag.

Swindon were well on course for the play-offs, and they would have definitely performed better if Flitcroft stayed just like Mansfield would have if Evans did not fuck off.

Evans is probably one of the best managers in the country tbf. His record is outstanding.

His personality is what's held him back from going all the way to the top.

Conker said:

Ask Swindon fans about some of Flitcroft signings.

You are entering a bias vicious circle shag.

Swindon were well on course for the play-offs, and they would have definitely performed better if Flitcroft stayed just like Mansfield would have if Evans did not fuck off.

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He signed, mainly, a whole load of shite. Robertson, Lancashire, Linganzi, Dunne, Charles-Cook, Mullin

Oh, he also spunked, supposedly’ £350,000 on Woolery although, tbf, he may turn out fine under another manager.

Indian Dan said:

He signed, mainly, a whole load of shite. Robertson, Lancashire, Linganzi, Dunne, Charles-Cook, Mullin

Oh, he also spunked, supposedly’ £350,000 on Woolery although, tbf, he may turn out fine under another manager.

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Although to be fair I’ll be suprised if his signings this summer turn out to be a load of shite.

Khan, Preston, Bishop, Walker, Davies is pretty decent you have to admit. I’ll stick up for him that he’s not been able to make as many signings due to being unable to shift some, but the players on the transfer list (Anderson, Butcher, Digby, Diamond) have all done performed well at a higher level pretty recently so it’s not like they are dead weight.

Chris FGR said:

Evans is probably one of the best managers in the country tbf. His record is outstanding.

His personality is what's held him back from going all the way to the top.

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Errrrrr no

The_Viking_Magpie said:

Errrrrr no

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6 promotions. That's not bad, is it?

People need to seperate their dislike of the man from his actual achievements.

Chris FGR said:

Evans is probably one of the best managers in the country tbf. His record is outstanding.

His personality is what's held him back from going all the way to the top.

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Which record?

Lowe’s tactics did not save Bury from relegation last season. There may be an argument about not having his kind of players available, but he now has the break to address that. It should become clear fairly quickly if it will work. Generally I’d say at least until the Christmas period but because of the time Lowe’s already had, maybe less.

Rovers gave Adams and Brabin too long imo. Mellon started last season badly, but was given time and funds to loan/bring in players, which turned things round, but with transfer windows closing early that won’t be an option this time. Unless we start dreadfully I would expect him to be allowed until the end of the year minimum

Chris FGR said:

6 promotions. That's not bad, is it?

People need to seperate their dislike of the man from his actual achievements.

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I can do. I’ve always said he’s a good manager, talented regardless of the distasteful stuff that comes with it and I’m not on about he’s equally repulsive puppet assistant.

No doubt about it he’s successful in lower league football when financially backed more than the vast majority of teams in that division. Don’t forget that Chris.

To suggest he’s outstanding and one of the best in football currently, is a joke mate.He’s currently at Peterborough United having left Mansfield Town. There is a clue there surely?

The_Viking_Magpie said:

I can do. I’ve always said he’s a good manager, talented regardless of the distasteful stuff that comes with it and I’m not on about he’s equally repulsive puppet assistant.

No doubt about it he’s successful in lower league football when financially backed more than the vast majority of teams in that division. Don’t forget that Chris.

To suggest he’s outstanding and one of the best in football currently, is a joke mate.He’s currently at Peterborough United having left Mansfield Town. There is a clue there surely?

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The clue is that he's a convicted fraudster and on top of that is a foul mouthed bellend whose touchline and media behaviour is an utter embarassment.

That's what's held him back, not his ability. Ability wise there aren't many better.

Devon_Lad said:

Managers deserve a season or two before being sacked. Minimum.

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Normally I'd agree, they need time to sort things out in the way they want with the players they want. However it was obvious the day we appointed Slade it was a disaster, so how he even started the next season I'll never know.

King Kev said:

Alternatively, Chesterfield fans will probably say Caldwell was given far too long after relegation last season and look how that ended up.

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Caldwell was gone by mid-September, Lester had plenty of time and signed loads of players in January too.

Boz said:

Lowe’s tactics did not save Bury from relegation last season. There may be an argument about not having his kind of players available, but he now has the break to address that. It should become clear fairly quickly if it will work. Generally I’d say at least until the Christmas period but because of the time Lowe’s already had, maybe less.

Rovers gave Adams and Brabin too long imo. Mellon started last season badly, but was given time and funds to loan/bring in players, which turned things round, but with transfer windows closing early that won’t be an option this time. Unless we start dreadfully I would expect him to be allowed until the end of the year minimum

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I think with the attitude of alot of our players and the unbalance of the squad caused by Clark, anyone would have struggled to save us from relegation. Lowe did also see a decent upturn in form. Something like one defeat in eight games and within touching distance of safety. However after blowing a 2-0 lead to Oldham we were relegated with a whimper. Thus alot of what you say holds. Lowe seemed very good at distancing himself from the players performances and not taking responsibility for the results, it was he who decided to stick with the bizzare one up front tactics so he had to be held accountable to some degree, whichever way he saw it. He has had a full pre season now, has a very experienced assistant and with the help of a DOF has made some encouraging signings. After last season we just want to see some pride, passion, young lads in the first team and some decent football. Keeping well away from the bottom two will see most Bury fans happy. I am also hoping the final dregs of last season's overpaid crap is moved on by August 9th. It will feel like a proper fresh start if that happens.

Depends what the expectation is vs what the supporters expect, I suppose?

No-one really wanted Holdsworth back in 2013 or whenever it was, but he was the only option we had given the position we were in. Likewise Gary Simpson in 2014.

You generally end up with a calibre of manager that mirrors where the Club is at, at that time.