Athletic Article: League One and Two Seasons to be abandoned next week

chipmunx said:

like as one club put it - there are 3 players that don't want to risk playing and catching it because they have heavily pregnant partners that they don't want to put at risk

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And what about BAME players, no one could blame them for not wanting to play given the worrying statistics.

RLC said:

I was not thinking of you specifically, more so clubs in our division and above who have spent excessively.

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Okay, I misread the league your comments were referring to.

RLC said:

Your certain you would have won the league then are you ? That is my whole point. Nothing has been decided mathematically. Take some lithium and stay out of the sun.

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No, I’m not certain. But YOU said your good form would continue. That’s just wishful thinking.

I understand you’re pissed off that you’ll be relegated - like I’ll be pissed off if the season is voided. Yes it’s unfair, just as it would be unfair on my club if it was voided. Now, just what makes Tranmere not being relegated more important than Swindon, Plymouth, Crewe and, probably Cheltenham not getting promoted. If you were in Wimbledon’s position you wouldn’t have piped up at all. What pisses me off is that you pretend your attitude would be the same - which is just bullshit.

You’re just like all fans. You want what’s best for your club.

I think some people are forgetting that unfortunately, circumstances dictate. This pandemic has screwed over millions of people. Look at the tourism industry, for example. It's not fair, but it is happening. You are going to have victims in all of this, and unfortunately for Tranmere, and Exeter to a lesser extent, they have been shafted. Not by the FA, or the FL, but by the global pandemic. Maybe voiding the season would be fairer, but it would seem that football would cease to exist in lots of towns if that were to happen.

It does seem like a harsh situation for clubs that lose out, but can't see a better solution then ppg tbh. If you have promotion, which imo you definitely should, then it is hard to argue against relegation in a sporting context.

And at least there would be some poetic justice if Tranmere came straight back down after their behaviour on and off the pitch in last seasons play-offs.

Rough justice, I reckon. Any club getting floored by a virus is shit. Tranmere getting relegated could look like a small price to pay when/if other clubs fold entirely.

Can’t say I’m keen on accepting PL B teams into the EFL as a price for getting a handout from them.

The PL surely can't make that a condition for any handout? It would be awful PR.

Premier League trying to go down the routes of the other national sports. Rugby League used to have a decent league pyramid up until the 90s before that game sold its soul to Sky and now has a ridiculous gimmick of Canadian teams in the British game.

Rugby Union and Cricket long abandoned the smaller teams and minor counties in the pursuit of making things better for the national team.

Football is trying to capitalise on this but fails to realise several factors.

1. There are far more elite national sides in football than in any of those three sports. So there would be no significant change.
2. There is far more resistance down in the lower leagues due to strong fanbases.
3. It just wouldn't work. Even if the greedy owners take the handout, it'll be offset by a boycott of fans. I love the Alex but if there's games against B teams I genuinely would jack it in and pursue other interests on a Saturday. And it wouldn't be my clubs fault. But the marketability of English football is we have an excellent pyramid. The envy of the world. And it'd be absolutely foolish to change that just so gimps like Ashworth can go to their owner and demand an increased bonus for his wonderful idea.

I miss the good old days when no one would give a toss what a technical director thought. But the media have given an increased reputation to these suits and they come across like they think they know all there is about the game.

As if they’d give a toss. Anyway, I thought the present loan system offered their little darlings the experience that the PL clubs want.

B teams wouldn't really be a big advantage to the big clubs though, would they? Is it really worth all the hassle and bad PR they'd get for trying to force it through?

What makes me laugh is the thought that the PL might in some way subsidise clubs at our level...once people realise that they really don't give a toss about the likes of Swindon, Crewe or FGR they might understand that we might as well whistle dixie!

(PS: I chose those teams because it is their supporters who have been active most recently on this thread, it does of course apply to anyone whose team plays outside the PL)

Why shouldn't we be promoted in 4th if Tranmere's main justification for not going down is 'we were on good form so might have stayed up'? By the same logic, we were on good form and arguably likely to make the top 3.

Quite right.

Indian Dan said:

No, I’m not certain. But YOU said your good form would continue. That’s just wishful thinking.

I understand you’re pissed off that you’ll be relegated - like I’ll be pissed off if the season is voided. Yes it’s unfair, just as it would be unfair on my club if it was voided. Now, just what makes Tranmere not being relegated more important than Swindon, Plymouth, Crewe and, probably Cheltenham not getting promoted. If you were in Wimbledon’s position you wouldn’t have piped up at all. What pisses me off is that you pretend your attitude would be the same - which is just bullshit.

You’re just like all fans. You want what’s best for your club.

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Wrong. If we were being replaced by a club in an automatic position I would not be happy but I could at least see the logic. It is being replaced by a team that in no sense has earned a promotion that I object to.

Perhaps another way of judging the season is to take the first results played against each of the other league 2 sides?

The current suggestions are laughable. The season should be null and voided, but based on the current ppg proposal here are some stats..

These are the PPG stats on equal games played up to 36 games (the amount Cheltenham have played).
Games 1 to 13 we were ahead on PPG against Cheltenham
Games 14 to 15 behind
Game 16 level
Games 17 to 18 behind
Games 19 to 36 ahead

So on equal games played we were ahead of Cheltenham on PPG for 31 games
They were ahead of us for 4 and level for 1
We've been ahead of them for 18 games on the trot until the arbitrary end of the season with 9 games left for us to play and they should go up?
They're ahead of us now by virtue of having played one game less than us where they could well have dropped points.

Yeah right.

CTFCfan99 said:

Why shouldn't we be promoted in 4th if Tranmere's main justification for not going down is 'we were on good form so might have stayed up'? By the same logic, we were on good form and arguably likely to make the top 3.

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Because a play off team has to win a play off competition to be promoted and such a competition has not even been staged.

Indian Dan said:

Rough justice, I reckon. Any club getting floored by a virus is shit. Tranmere getting relegated could look like a small price to pay when/if other clubs fold entirely.

Can’t say I’m keen on accepting PL B teams into the EFL as a price for getting a handout from them.

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One thing we agree about. I would accept any outcome in preference to letting those vampires blackmail lower league clubs into accepting B teams.

RLC said:

Because a play off team has to win a play off competition to be promoted and such a competition has not even been staged.

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And surely by the same logic a team in the relegation places has to be relegated?

Devon_Lad said:

Perhaps another way of judging the season is to take the first results played against each of the other league 2 sides?

The current suggestions are laughable. The season should be null and voided, but based on the current ppg proposal here are some stats..

These are the PPG stats on equal games played up to 36 games (the amount Cheltenham have played).
Games 1 to 13 we were ahead on PPG against Cheltenham
Games 14 to 15 behind
Game 16 level
Games 17 to 18 behind
Games 19 to 36 ahead

So on equal games played we were ahead of Cheltenham on PPG for 31 games
They were ahead of us for 4 and level for 1
We've been ahead of them for 18 games on the trot until the arbitrary end of the season with 9 games left for us to play and they should go up?
They're ahead of us now by virtue of having played one game less than us where they could well have dropped points.

Yeah right.

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Shit happens. Just congratulate Cheltenham and move on.

Their ppg is better then yours. End of.

Chris FGR said:

Shit happens. Just congratulate Cheltenham and move on.

Their ppg is better then yours. End of.

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I'm not congratulating anyone because if you look at the table no position has been mathametically secured. Swindon don't deserve promotion because they're top, they've played a completely different fixture list to every other club. Until everyone has played the same games or they have mathematically secured said position then they don't deserve it more than anyone else. If the season cannot be completed it must be void, as current standings are not accurate or true.

‘Promotion. Relegation. A reflection of the season’s work. Time money and effort rewarded in some way.’

Voiding the season makes a mockery of every team's hard work for 3/4 of a season and rewards those who've been poor. I'd be saying this even if we weren't likely to gain from it. I'd much prefer to play the remaining games when safe to do so but if that's not possible, ppg is the best solution.

If the playoffs have been scrapped and the agreement remains at 4 down 4 up (obviously Bury's expulsion makes it 3 down), then it goes back to the pre-playoff system used from 1958-1986 where the 4th best team is given automatic promotion. They're not going to make an exception to dock a promotion place when at the start of the season four were available. The tournament for the fourth spot may have been scrapped but the fourth spot still remains.

I'm not saying I agree with it, but that's the reason the EFL are going ahead with it in this way. And in fairness, the team that finishes 21st in League One is always relegated, so I can't see legal action or any other method saving Tranmere at all.

RLC said:

Wrong. If we were being replaced by a club in an automatic position I would not be happy but I could at least see the logic. It is being replaced by a team that in no sense has earned a promotion that I object to.

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Am I missing something here? If ppg is used to decide these things you will go down by dint of finishing 3rd bottom, those bottom 3 being replaced by the 3 automatic promoted teams from L2.

How are you being replaced by the 4th promoted team? That 4th promoted team is, in effect, replacing the now demised Bury.

Boletus Edulis said:

And what about BAME players, no one could blame them for not wanting to play given the worrying statistics.

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I think large factors in the stats from what others have posted here and elsewhere is 1) the fact that many in the BAME community are in low paid service lobs (or in the NHS) which puts them at more risk of contacting people who have it and 2) the BMI issue. Players don't tend to be in either of those groups;- but I can understand anyone BAME or not being concerned at present.
Also what constitutes as BAME? - this isn't the question you might think as my maternal Grandfather was 25% Jamaican which puts me at around 6.25%. With some people who have mixed ancestry 2/3 generations back you can tell - but in others you can't - but the percentage is still there and comes up on the ancestry tests.

Indian Dan said:

Am I missing something here? If ppg is used to decide these things you will go down by dint of finishing 3rd bottom, those bottom 3 being replaced by the 3 automatic promoted teams from L2.

How are you being replaced by the 4th promoted team? That 4th promoted team is, in effect, replacing the now demised Bury.

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You are clearly getting desperate now. Teams in play off positions should not be promoted unless a play off competition is completed.

CTFCfan99 said:

And surely by the same logic a team in the relegation places has to be relegated?

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Yes, after the completion of 46 games.

RLC said:

Yes, after the completion of 46 games.

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So Bolton and Southend should stay up?

CTFCfan99 said:

So Bolton and Southend should stay up?

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Yes. If no majority agreement can be agreed. Neither have been relegated as of now so why should they be relegated?

Funny watching Cheltenham fans argue for PPG.

These are the PPG stats on equal games played up to 36 games (the amount Cheltenham have played).
Games 1 to 13 we were ahead on PPG against Cheltenham
Games 14 to 15 behind
Game 16 level
Games 17 to 18 behind
Games 19 to 36 ahead

So on equal games played we were ahead of Cheltenham on PPG for 31 games
They were ahead of us for 4 and level for 1
We've been ahead of them for 18 games on the trot until the arbitrary end of the season with 9 games left for us to play and they should go up?
They're ahead of us now by virtue of having played one game less than us where they could well have dropped points.

Yeah, just got lucky youve played a game less. It's embarrassing beyond belief watching teams argue for whats fair, right and "logical", the genuine fair way to go about it is to look at the point in the season when everyone has aged the same games and teams - the halfway point.

At the moment you're saying team A deserves it because they are above team B from playing fixture list C when team B has played fixture list D.

No team is any position of any value because the season is incomplete. Nobody deserves any position of any team until it's mathematically confirmed, because as of now nobody has played the same fixtures.

Cheltenham arguing for ppg is the definition of what a sham this has been. The most illogical way of thinking or concluding the season - getting promoted because you had less PPG as the team above you when both on the same amount of games (36), they lose and you don't play so your PPG is then slightly better.

The season should be complete on games that HAVE been played not ones that are GOING to be played, or it should be based on the halfway point when everyone has played everyone equally.

Failing that, and my preferred option, null it and void it. PPG will rightly be voided once it reaches the courts, should the EFL be daft enough, anyway.

Null and void isn't going to happen due to the liabilities for the whole of English football going north of £1 billion. The EFL chairmen themselves don't want to run the financial risks of a voided season either so it won't happen.