After Coronavirus - What next for league football? (poll)

[chipmunx]

Lee Johnson, manager of Bristol city, came up with what I think is a decent proposal.
He said that get all your players tested for the virus , if they are clear , get them together, move the squad into a hotel, and play a game every 3 or 4 days, behind closed doors, like the world cup. The season could be completed in 3 or 4 weeks!

I don't think playing matches behind closed hotel room doors will solve anything - and think of the cost of all the damaged furniture and broken windows...

 

[Indian Dan]

I take it, most on here would welcome some sort of realignment of football when this crisis finished. PL being reined in financially and maybe getting back to the days when ‘ordinary’ clubs could have a realistic shot of top flight football without being bankrolled to the point of destruction.

Would the culling of a few, more than a few, clubs be worthwhile if football returned to the days before TV money blighted the game for all but the privileged few.

 

[chipmunx]

I take it, most on here would welcome some sort of realignment of football when this crisis finished. PL being reined in financially and maybe getting back to the days when ‘ordinary’ clubs could have a realistic shot of top flight football without being bankrolled to the point of destruction.

Would the culling of a few, more than a few, clubs be worthwhile if football returned to the days before TV money blighted the game for all but the privileged few.

only if the few were mainly Premier League or plastic or despised clubs - like MK Dons or Salford

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

I take it, most on here would welcome some sort of realignment of football when this crisis finished. PL being reined in financially and maybe getting back to the days when ‘ordinary’ clubs could have a realistic shot of top flight football without being bankrolled to the point of destruction.

Would the culling of a few, more than a few, clubs be worthwhile if football returned to the days before TV money blighted the game for all but the privileged few.

Financial realignment yes. But I fear we may be being too idealistic. Sadly, I can see the days of the 2000s coming back as far as the top division is concerned. Rarely a title race and the league dominated by three clubs for many years to come (City, Liverpool and sadly United who'll benefit the most from this implosion). The same clubs each year will be in Europe bar the lucky recipient of 7th place and this will badly hurt the ambitious clubs like Leicester, Wolves and Sheffield United who will surely have to cut costs soon in line with a future reduced league TV deal.

The Championship is a mess. My take on that is that all the foreign talent in that division will go back to their native countries as the lure of daft wages in the English second tier seemingly comes to an end. As bad as that TV deal was by Shaun Harvey at the time (getting in bed with Sky and not encouraging other TV networks to have a bid) ironically it's potentially saved the EFL as I believe it runs until 2024 with the sponsorship. Selling stadiums to fund a promotion bid was the last straw, and these clubs will pay a heavy penalty of 7 figures per year for many, many years to come. A relic of their lunatic spending. I've been a vocal critic of that division for years. It's a division full of pretentious clubs riding on past glories who think they're too big for it yet, in the case of Wednesday, Forest, Leeds and Derby, they've been rotting in it for years. I do hope Leeds and West Brom get the promotions they deserve, but for the rest, it's the stark reality of brutal cost cutting to acceptable levels. A £5000 per week wage cap at that level is more than enough if the TV/Solidarity deal remains at the combined £7 million per club I believe it's at now. This also puts an end to the delusions of grandeur at some clubs who were threatening to break away and become an independent division, which is excellent news for lower league clubs. No one will buy their independent product for the fees they believed they could command once the debt and unsustainable wages are greatly reduced.

Leagues 1 and 2 will end up with furloughing at every single club in the next few weeks and that's fine. I think a lot of L1 and L2 clubs will survive this as the cuts they need to make can be done quite easily thanks to short term contracts and the majority of clubs adhere to SCMP. Of course, for Oldham, Macclesfield, Bolton (fuelled heavily on debt since being taken over) and Southend, this could be fatal for them given their well publicised issues over the past year or so. Sadly for most our clubs, the transfer market won't be as rewarding as it used to be, which hurts given we've waited years to finally develop players after the Dull Davis era only for the most promising crop we've had since 2012 to see their value significantly depleted by the economic hardship we're about to face. Reduced budgets across the board will be the norm, gone will be the days of small clubs bleating about massive budgets in the preseason (hooray) and bankrolling will give way to sustainability, like it's done so in Scotland since Rangers demise in 2012. The SPFL outside of the Old Firm are heavily reliant on its Academies now, and that should be the model we follow if we want to see our clubs play football for many years to come. This, of course, means that EPPP must be scrapped at once as it's at odds with the (correct) Scottish youth policy designed to promote the nurturing, rather than stockpiling, of local talent.

My biggest fear is that the National League will do sod all about this. This is the time to really regulate that wild west of a league and tell bankrolled owners they're only welcome if they choose to invest in the club's infrastructure to increase revenue streams as opposed to spunking the load on ridiculously high player wages in ridiculously poor facilities. In a time where austerity is going to hit community clubs very very hard, bankrolled clubs will only cause this problem again as the clubs in the league who cut their cloth accordingly will be forced to stretch to keep hold of their league status.

Lastly, scrap the transfer window for good. Clubs need to sell players from June-March to really ease their financial burdens for the foreseeable future. The transfer window restricts trade. Let's get it back to how it used to be. And all fees to be paid up front and not this ridiculous amortised shit which is going to cause a ton of hardship at the top two levels and on the continent for the next 5 years.

 

[chipmunx]

My biggest fear is that the National League will do sod all about this. This is the time to really regulate that wild west of a league and tell bankrolled owners they're only welcome if they choose to invest in the club's infrastructure to increase revenue streams as opposed to spunking the load on ridiculously high player wages in ridiculously poor facilities. In a time where austerity is going to hit community clubs very very hard, bankrolled clubs will only cause this problem again as the clubs in the league who cut their cloth accordingly will be forced to stretch to keep hold of their league status.

Lastly, scrap the transfer window for good. Clubs need to sell players from June-March to really ease their financial burdens for the foreseeable future. The transfer window restricts trade. Let's get it back to how it used to be. And all fees to be paid up front and not this ridiculous amortised shit which is going to cause a ton of hardship at the top two levels and on the continent for the next 5 years.

The National League do need to look at heavily bankrolled teams like Solihull and Harrogate who have low fan levels, but high budgets. Salford also did that to a massively stupid unsustainable degree last season. Even my club Barrow (with the 5th or 6th lowest budget in the National league) is looking at an on paper deficit of £700-800K fot the last 12 months - although that is largely due to one off costs after the takeover last season and long overdue necessary ground improvements. In our case though the defecit has been covered by the owners (5 of them including the fan owned trust) putting in extra money and not loading the club with debt.
on the transfer window i kind of agree with that and also thing with leaving the EU the Bosman ruling can possibly be got rid of with the leagues bringing in a modified version to protect clubs like Crewe from having their academies plundered by "bigger" clubs.

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

The National League do need to look at heavily bankrolled teams like Solihull and Harrogate who have low fan levels, but high budgets. Salford also did that to a massively stupid unsustainable degree last season. Even my club Barrow (with the 5th or 6th lowest budget in the National league) is looking at an on paper deficit of £700-800K fot the last 12 months - although that is largely due to one off costs after the takeover last season and long overdue necessary ground improvements. In our case though the defecit has been covered by the owners (5 of them including the fan owned trust) putting in extra money and not loading the club with debt.
on the transfer window i kind of agree with that and also thing with leaving the EU the Bosman ruling can possibly be got rid of with the leagues bringing in a modified version to protect clubs like Crewe from having their academies plundered by "bigger" clubs.

What got me last season was Paul McCallum being in demand from a whole host of L2 and the odd L1 club for a great goalscoring season and he chose to stay in the NL but leave Eastleigh and sign for Solihull Moors. When Solihull are offering more money than established league clubs you know that the system is broken and it warrants changing, especially when their infrastructure leaves a whole lot to be desired. Danny Hollands left a place in Crewe's team every week (if he stayed fit) for Eastleigh in the league below on more wages, although I can sympathise he probably didn't want to stay up North either so would've left us either way.

The current rule (clubs demanding compensation under the age of 24) is fine despite its flaws but, as I've alluded to in other posts, the EPPP system for Academies we have in this country needs to be scrapped at once. It forces clubs to spend set amounts of money on one of the four categories, which has led to some clubs (even ones higher up the food chain like Huddersfield and Brentford) scrapping Academies altogether which would've been unthinkable in the 1990s. It's a system that ruins young careers, promotes mass stockpiling and rips off lower league clubs to the point they don't think an Academy is viable anymore. Clubs then use the money saved to "go for it" in the league and that causes the big problem we have today. Our fans moan we can't develop clinical strikers, how can we if the last one we had (George Nunn) was snapped up just before he could sign a pro-contract with us for a paltry £300,000 by Chelsea. And you just know he'll never play a game for them...

Clubs should be allowed to spend what they want on Academies and scrapping EPPP would drive player wages in the lower leagues right down. We live in a country where PL youth players are getting £30-50K a week despite being nowhere near the first team, and then they have no motivation once they're released that they exit the game at 22, richer but with no direction or no desire to get back into the game they once loved.

 

[chipmunx]

What got me last season was Paul McCallum being in demand from a whole host of L2 and the odd L1 club for a great goalscoring season and he chose to stay in the NL but leave Eastleigh and sign for Solihull Moors. When Solihull are offering more money than established league clubs you know that the system is broken and it warrants changing, especially when their infrastructure leaves a whole lot to be desired. Danny Hollands left a place in Crewe's team every week (if he stayed fit) for Eastleigh in the league below on more wages, although I can sympathise he probably didn't want to stay up North either so would've left us either way.

The current rule (clubs demanding compensation under the age of 24) is fine despite its flaws but, as I've alluded to in other posts, the EPPP system for Academies we have in this country needs to be scrapped at once. It forces clubs to spend set amounts of money on one of the four categories, which has led to some clubs (even ones higher up the food chain like Huddersfield and Brentford) scrapping Academies altogether which would've been unthinkable in the 1990s. It's a system that ruins young careers, promotes mass stockpiling and rips off lower league clubs to the point they don't think an Academy is viable anymore. Clubs then use the money saved to "go for it" in the league and that causes the big problem we have today. Our fans moan we can't develop clinical strikers, how can we if the last one we had (George Nunn) was snapped up just before he could sign a pro-contract with us for a paltry £300,000 by Chelsea. And you just know he'll never play a game for them...

Clubs should be allowed to spend what they want on Academies and scrapping EPPP would drive player wages in the lower leagues right down. We live in a country where PL youth players are getting £30-50K a week despite being nowhere near the first team, and then they have no motivation once they're released that they exit the game at 22, richer but with no direction or no desire to get back into the game they once loved.

and the day before everything kicked off Solihull signed Adam Rooney full time from Salford FFS.... - the day after their game against Harrogate gets called off and they've not played since - madness...

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

and the day before everything kicked off Solihull signed Adam Rooney full time from Salford FFS.... - the day after their game against Harrogate gets called off and they've not played since - madness...

He was on £4000 a week at Aberdeen and left them for Salford. I think they may have subsidised his wages but £4000+ a week in League Two was ridiculous. That Eales they have as an owner was at Oxford spending ridiculous wages to get them into League One and then realised he couldn't compete once he got there so sold up to a Thai investor. I think a lot of people are so fixated on the higher levels, they fail to realise wages have gone up massively in League Two over the last decade due to the number of bankrolled non league clubs causing a domino effect.

I'm sceptical of Artell saying that we have the third lowest wage budget in the league, but then maybe he's right given we're one of the handful of clubs investing in our infrastructure and facilities every year as opposed to going for broke with player wages. And if he is right, then a lot of clubs who have no proper training ground, who don't invest in their academy and who get lesser crowds and no transfer fees received are somehow managing to spend more than us which just comes across as ridiculous when you think about it. With us being taken over by a local consortium a month before this kicked off, we'll probably be in the best position to have a bright future once we emerge from this mess, as we were when the ITV Digital fiasco happened years ago. But others won't be so lucky.

 

[Indian Dan]

So, the Championship, in effect, implodes destroying a number of over-financed clubs in the process - the same could happen for a handful of PL clubs, too. Lucrative PL overseas tours cease, shirt sales collapse and TV want a reduced budget for their product. Wages are realigned to a more sensible level reducing every club’s reliance on signing ‘foreign’ stars.

All sounding good for lower league clubs whose homegrown players should be more in demand. Those that survive will rise up the structure by dint of a host of other clubs folding - maybe only 2 full time, professional leagues followed by a couple of Conference type leagues with mainly part time players.

European, let alone World football, will cease for the foreseeable future so, again, certain PL clubs lose income. Attendances, if they return at all any time soon, will be remain restricted. Football is broadcast only - no fans - for at least the next season (whenever that starts).

The madness of the Sky years is at an end.

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

So, the Championship, in effect, implodes destroying a number of over-financed clubs in the process - the same could happen for a handful of PL clubs, too. Lucrative PL overseas tours cease, shirt sales collapse and TV want a reduced budget for their product. Wages are realigned to a more sensible level reducing every club’s reliance on signing ‘foreign’ stars.

All sounding good for lower league clubs whose homegrown players should be more in demand. Those that survive will rise up the structure by dint of a host of other clubs folding - maybe only 2 full time, professional leagues followed by a couple of Conference type leagues with mainly part time players.

European, let alone World football, will cease for the foreseeable future so, again, certain PL clubs lose income. Attendances, if they return at all any time soon, will be remain restricted. Football is broadcast only - no fans - for at least the next season (whenever that starts).

The madness of the Sky years is at an end.

Big Six teams will still have the revenues to remain at the top of the tree even if Sky money goes kaput and European football is suspended. They'll still have the stadium revenues and lucrative sponsorship. Still do the ridiculous overseas tours (once corona has subsided) and at worst will see player valuations decrease, will have to renegotiate contracts that are more than likely going to be unsustainable and find it hard to shift the dead wood in their squads. I'd imagine some outside of the Big 6 will have enough money to sustain PL status year on year too, albeit at reduced incomes. It's the clubs like Bournemouth and Brighton that'll massively suffer if the PL money sharply declines.

Championship is a funny one. This debacle will see FFP be scrapped for sure. Clubs like Barnsley, West Brom, Hull, QPR and Luton are living well within their means. Brentford and Bristol City's club philosophies are wholly reliant on transfer income which will now be deflated. Cardiff, Swansea and Huddersfield are using the parachute payments to cut costs, although Cardiff and Swansea seem to be in a far better position than Huddersfield from the outside looking in. Stoke have tried to overspend to get back into the PL but their owners are so wealthy they could easily live within their means if they were forced to without worrying about the club going bust. Middlesbrough are doing all they can to cut costs to sustainable levels anyway but a bad transfer window under Garry Monk a few years ago may come back to haunt them. Charlton are embroiled in a strange ownership situation but were hardly spending massive amounts of money anyway. Leeds and Fulham have gambled on promotion but, in Leeds view, the gamble looked likely to have paid off had the season been played to its conclusion. So the hopes of group administration for all won't even get off the ground. And you can tell not a single club named above would want group administration to happen at all. So where do you go from there?

To me Sheffield Wednesday, Nottingham Forest, Derby, Reading, Birmingham, Blackburn and Wigan will definitely want some administrative procedure to be enacted as they're massively jeopardised by unsustainable wages and amortised fees that they can't realistically afford. Lesser clubs like Preston and Millwall are spending way above their turnover on wages but, as they have lesser turnovers, it's more manageable for the owners to cut their losses Also, they don't tend to spend big on fees so they might not want the group admin that those others would want.

If you're a lower league homegrown club not spending above your means, cutting your cloth accordingly and playing young prospects like ourselves, Exeter and Ipswich for example, then those will be the big winners in the lower leagues. I don't know how many clubs will fold, my guess is it won't be as many as others forecast given the EFLs desire to only expel clubs as a last resort compared to other countries who won't tolerate this bullshit. But there'll be a 92 team league next season for sure.

The biggest losers out of all this will be the agents. Let's get the small violin out for them. The days of conning English clubs for mediocre French league signings all to give an agent £10 million have long gone.

 

[Indian Dan]

What about clubs whose owners fund that club out of a separate core business? The foreign owned clubs could well see owners pull out. Countries, businesses and people are going to take a massive financial hit.

If you’ve got a profitable business producing widgets that has hit financial trouble and you also own a ‘hobby’ football club, which will you concentrate on?

I tell you, an awful lot of clubs are on the path to oblivion.

 

[Greenacres]

Interesting point above, regarding the foreign owned clubs...how many in the top flight are owned by people who are domiciled in the UK, and by that I mean people who file a tax return here and pay for the pleasure of being able to trade here. My guess is that it isn't too many...I could probably run through the table and wiki the teams...will probably do that later if I get bored of sunshine and my back garden.

I suspect that the issue isn't quite so pressing in the Championship and lower, where most of the owners are UK residents. I do tend to agree that we might see a number of teams just cease to exist, particularly if the current situation drags on beyond the summer.

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

Interesting point above, regarding the foreign owned clubs...how many in the top flight are owned by people who are domiciled in the UK, and by that I mean people who file a tax return here and pay for the pleasure of being able to trade here. My guess is that it isn't too many...I could probably run through the table and wiki the teams...will probably do that later if I get bored of sunshine and my back garden.

I suspect that the issue isn't quite so pressing in the Championship and lower, where most of the owners are UK residents. I do tend to agree that we might see a number of teams just cease to exist, particularly if the current situation drags on beyond the summer.

Definitely pressing in the Championship. Think only 7 clubs are British owned (including Hull's Egyptian owners who are naturalised British citizens). Below that, there are a handful of foreign owned clubs such as Pompey, Oxford and Notts County to name a few. Be interesting to see who sticks by their clubs and who gets rid at the earliest opportunity...

 

[Greenacres]

That is true, if you think about some of the clubs at the very top of the game, financing a football team in the UK may not be a top priority when their core business has pretty much dried up.

I guess there will be a few whose owners have almost endless pots of money and bottomless pockets, but there will almost certainly be a bumpy ride for some if their financier pulls the plug.

 

[Indian Dan]

I, obviously, detest Oxford but I wouldn’t want them or any other club get brought down by this virus.

Fans are, essentially, all the same.

 

[TimeyWimey]

Lee Johnson, manager of Bristol city, came up with what I think is a decent proposal.
He said that get all your players tested for the virus , if they are clear , get them together, move the squad into a hotel, and play a game every 3 or 4 days, behind closed doors, like the world cup. The season could be completed in 3 or 4 weeks!

If Lee Johnson can sufficiently quarantine 2000 individuals, be absolutely certain they tested negative in a test that has such a high false negative rate, and ensure safety with clubs from all over the country travelling around every 3-4 days. He should lead the World Health Organization and be renamed Mother Teresa. Not to mention wasting 2000 tests on footballers would be absurd.

Just award us the league.

 

[shoddycollins]

Lee Johnson, manager of Bristol city, came up with what I think is a decent proposal.
He said that get all your players tested for the virus , if they are clear , get them together, move the squad into a hotel, and play a game every 3 or 4 days, behind closed doors, like the world cup. The season could be completed in 3 or 4 weeks!

Whole thing falls apart though unless everyone's entire squad in the division tests negative.

 

[shoddycollins]

I take it, most on here would welcome some sort of realignment of football when this crisis finished. PL being reined in financially and maybe getting back to the days when ‘ordinary’ clubs could have a realistic shot of top flight football without being bankrolled to the point of destruction.

Would the culling of a few, more than a few, clubs be worthwhile if football returned to the days before TV money blighted the game for all but the privileged few.

Not to the fans of those clubs obviously.

 

[Modernist]

Nothing will change unfortunately.

 

[shoddycollins]

Nothing will change unfortunately.

And you're probably right. The wealthiest clubs have most influence on the FA, PL, EFL etc. and they'll likely already be lobbying that the most important thing is that everything goes back to exactly how it was.

 

[Richard Cranium]

It will never change. Prem clubs will probably demand a reserve team in our leagues for their money to help financially with the lower league sides and they'll get FA cup replays scrapped for good aswell when next season will need a reduction in games where possible. Gr££d league

 

[shoddycollins]

It will never change. Prem clubs will probably demand a reserve team in our leagues for their money to help financially with the lower league sides and they'll get FA cup replays scrapped for good aswell when next season will need a reduction in games where possible. Gr££d league

That's one fear. That they'll use 'extraordinary circumstances' as an excuse to get the things they wanted all along.

 

[Chris FGR]

If that happens hopefully there'll be mass boycotts of league games like with the Leasing.com Trophy.

 

[Vanni]

+1

Thing is though, as much as I would welcome any mass boycotts should the big clubs get their way, I'm also sure that such a measure will not work because (IMO) a good percentage of football fans do not think a lot about what is right and wrong for their own clubs and for football in general. IOW, they won't let such 'trivial' matters like having principles get in their way. So we can all look forward to the usual feeble excuses like -

'how will my club survive if I don't go to the match?They need my money'

'but the B teams will be joining us eventually and I don't see how boycotting league games changes anything'

and on and on and on...............

FFS some people can't even bring themselves to miss a meaningless checkatinpot game!!!

 

[Spanishstag]

What we should do is boycot the league cup ,fa cup and whatever ,let them have it all to themselves ,its no good without us

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

I really don't think B teams will ever happen. Shaun Harvey might have tried all he could to get them in but B teams in the actual league system is far more drastic than B teams in a third rate competition. With the dangerous Harvey long gone, I'd like to think the owners wouldn't even entertain any suggestion of it.

It's far more likely that the Top 6 all piss off to a Super League. And if it comes to it? Let them go. The novelty will soon wear off when Spurs and Arsenal are towards the bottom of the table every year...

 

[Indian Dan]

Worryingly, 96 people in South Korea which had previously recovered from Coronavirus have tested positive again.

 

[Vanni]

I'm not that convinced Trinidad. I just don't believe they've given up on the B team idea for two things mostly. The lower leagues chairmen are against it for now but who can say what they would do if they were promised large sums of money were they to accept the proposal. Money talks and money changes everything. Second thing is that the FA is always looking at the continental game to take inspiration from (on ways to improve the national team among other things) and one can find b teams in nearly all of the big leagues inc Spain, Germany and Italy.

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

I'm not that convinced Trinidad. I just don't believe they've given up on the B team idea for two things mostly. The lower leagues chairmen are against it for now but who can say what they would do if they were promised large sums of money were they to accept the proposal. Money talks and money changes everything. Second thing is that the FA is always looking at the continental game to take inspiration from (on ways to improve the national team among other things) and one can find b teams in nearly all of the big leagues inc Spain, Germany and Italy.

The Italian league doesn't have B teams but I do get your point. Funnily enough, one example we should look at in these leagues is their zero tolerance approach to clubs amassing debts in the hope of achieving a pipe dream. Spain expelled Reus from the Segunda Division last season, the Bundesliga and German lower leagues won't hand clubs licences in any of the three national divisions either should they be in debt.

On the other hand, if our game is obsessed with looking at other leagues, they should know that Italy has been a basket case for years. 20-30 years ago it was by far the best league in the world. They had clubs in European finals every season, they were the richest clubs in the world, but then a major event happened in the country, they joined the Euro and suddenly the volatility of the new currency wreaked havoc. Soon the banks were called in and many clubs sold off players and were reduced to second-rate status with Parma and Fiorentina eventually going bankrupt and Napoli going down to Serie C before being bought by de Laurentiis. Only Juventus have recovered from the crisis of 20 years ago, and even though they were match fixing charlatans, they do own their own ground unlike most in Italy, which is why their failure to invest in infrastructure when they were the best league in the world caused terminal decline to their league.

The English game is lucky in the sense that all leagues, and not just their league, will suffer. But the Bundesliga and Ligue 1 are the best leagues to cope with this financial crisis out of the five major leagues. Both leagues are regulated by a financial auditor each year. The Bundesliga has a strict zero tolerance on debt and Ligue 1's auditor sets the salary cap at clubs each year for which strict penalties are enforced should they exceed it. I fear for the other three leagues as they're all swimming in debts. We may have the richest TV deal in the World but it's a deal up for renewal in 12 months. It could even be renewed if the PL voids the season as that would be a significant breach of contract. And we don't know how sharply it's set to decline. So I disagree when people say the usual hierarchy will sort itself out. It may not affect the Manchester clubs, Spurs and Liverpool to the extent it'd affect the lesser sides up there. But they too will have to adapt and face changes. There'll be an end to youth players getting daft wages. Maybe an end to stockpiling to cut costs. And almost certainly the end of renewing contracts of no hopers like Jesse Lingard and Phil Jones in the hope a gullible club will shell £30 million on each of them. The Super League idea will be mooted once this has died down, but they'll get nowhere near the money they once thought they would for it. So it's a non-starter.

Change will indeed come, but we may not know the full extent of this change for another 6-12 months yet...

 

[Chris FGR]

Worryingly, 96 people in South Korea which had previously recovered from Coronavirus have tested positive again.

Fuck.

Can forget about herd immunity if that's true, and we'll have to wait for the vaccine before life gets back to anything like normal.