Allardyce.

TheWednesday

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#2
If he does go he can leave proud of what he's achieved. Took over with you in the Championship and has left you as a very solid Premiership team, getting his successor right is vitally important.
 

Jarv

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#3
Can't blame him really Making it obvious you're looking at other managers then when they aren't interested offering to give Big Sam another deal. It's a big decision getting his successor right.
 

claret50

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Thread starter #4
The sooner he's gone the better as far as I'm concerned, his one dimensional - the only one he knows - style of football is Shyte.
 

mase

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#6
I never saw any West Ham fans complaining when you were in and around the top four. Proper fickle bunch....
 

JimJams

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#7
At best they'll finish 9th, at worst 11th. Not really sure what West Ham fans expect. After a 13th placed finish last season and a net spend of £23mill in the summer, they've made progress up the table. Maybe the football isn't as pretty as they'd like but usually discontent with a manager is when fans have the feeling that the players they have are capable of much more and the manager isn't getting enough out of them. I don't think that's true of West Ham though.
I get that fans want entertainment, that's the business, but it's 50/50 whether that entertainment is going to come from a positive push up the table for European places and good cup runs, or it's gonna come from fighting relegation battles. If neither are going to happen then there seems little point in getting someone new in.
For most people I think they'd view discontent among West Ham fans as them being over ambitious, that they're at their level and should be happy where they are because they're safe and sound. But I suppose there's nothing actually wrong with that ambition, it's normal to want better for yourself and so from that perspective if they think that their position can be improved upon, then they probably should get someone else in.

I think we all look at managers and say if someone's not doing a bad job they shouldn't be replaced, they should be given a chance. But even if Allardyce is doing a good job, if the club and fans believe that he's actually doing the best he can do, that he'll never do any better in helping them take another step up, then despite him doing well, they should go for someone they feel is capable of that next level. If they're right, vindication. If they're not... relegation?
No. But I just wanted to use a word that ended in 'ation. But not masturbation, that really wouldn't have worked.
 

G.B

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#9
:lol: Nice attempt to save face by an unwated manager.


Just, like, the opposite and that.
 
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#10
I don't get the animosity towards Allardyce. He's done a good job. Yes, the last few seasons he's played "Big Sam" football, but this season they played differently, they played better. Yes, it's gone away a bit since Zarate was loaned out, but it's not gone back to square one.

You've got a manager who got you promoted, kept you in the Premiership, was challenging around the top of the table in the first half of the season, guaranteed minimum mid-table finish, and all I hear from West Ham fans is them moaning about the manager.

I think some fans expect too much from their team. West Ham don't have the players to get European football, they might do next season, if they keep climbing the table they'll get there eventually. But bring in a new manager, just as much chance of disrupting the team and losing progress as there is pushing the team up.
 

Super_horns

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#11
The danger is they get somebody who plays the "West Ham" way...and then they get relegated just as the Hammers move to the Olympic Stadium.

Big Sam would at least guarantee safety and results..
 

ArmchairDiehard

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#12
I don't get the animosity towards Allardyce. He's done a good job. Yes, the last few seasons he's played "Big Sam" football, but this season they played differently, they played better. Yes, it's gone away a bit since Zarate was loaned out, but it's not gone back to square one.

You've got a manager who got you promoted, kept you in the Premiership, was challenging around the top of the table in the first half of the season, guaranteed minimum mid-table finish, and all I hear from West Ham fans is them moaning about the manager.

I think some fans expect too much from their team. West Ham don't have the players to get European football, they might do next season, if they keep climbing the table they'll get there eventually. But bring in a new manager, just as much chance of disrupting the team and losing progress as there is pushing the team up.
Spot on
 

G.B

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#13
They want to grow. Allardyce is a small time manager with a small time mentality. And his teams' football is eye bleedingly bad the vast majority of the time. You aren't going to attract new fans to the club playing the football he does and the current fans won't be happy paying good money to watch it either. They're paying to be entertained and all too often a Fat Sam team fails to do that. Same with Pulis, good managers to stabalise a club and grind out results but not in the least bit entertaining. And that's what the sport business is about nowadays. Appealing to people then milking them for as much money as possible. See Arsenal.
 

ArmchairDiehard

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#14
Harry Redknapp had Spurs playing some good football and Levy gave him the bullet.

Results are more important than performances for those upstairs. Both Big Sam and Tony Pulis are given far too much criticism than they deserve.
 

G.B

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#15
Redknapps "silky Spurs" is a myth. He had them playing some of the most direct football in the country at that time. Of course he had the luxory of some really technically gifted players to complement his 'back to front as fast as you can' style of football. Plus, you know, he publicly (and repeatedly) declared he was ready to fuck them off for England and he let his teams form turn to shite in the process. Essentially, he stopped trying and got the sack for it. Fair enough imo.

Clearly not in this case of they'd have offered him a new contract a long time ago. They're moving to a new stadium and looking to grow the club. You wont appeal to new fans (or many players) with Sam Allardyce and his style of football fronting your product. They're obviously an ambitious club and if they feel they can improve on the style of play while maintaining results then they should go for it.

I don't think they are. They're both widely considered to be good, solid PL managers. Just very, very limited, negative, and often awful to watch. Is it unfair to criticise their style of football while maintaining they're good football managers (as is aknowledged by most)? I'd tend to disagree. Dull, negative football deserves to be criticised, especially when those criticising it are the ones paying through the nose to watch it.
 
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Super_horns

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#16
Well so long as they don't get relegated playing more fancy stuff otherwise they'll be paying big bucks for Championship football in a new stadium!

I guess it is catch22 - they clearly will expect to stay up I guess and will want to attract new fans (West Ham still get decent enough gates now despite the negative image of their football)
 

G.B

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#17
Of course, that's the risk you take and it could easily go tits up. But if you want to expand you need to take risks. You know what you get from Allardyce, boring football and mid-table safety. Which is fine, to a point. Sully and Gerld obviously have ambitions that they feel exceed Allardyce's ability. Hardly an outrageous conclusion given Allardyce's career thus far.

I mean Kevin Nolan has played 26 league games this season. 26 terrible, lumbering, overweight league games. Nobody wants to see that.
 

ArmchairDiehard

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#18
Mourinho has been slated for being boring and negative in recent months and they've won the title by a landslide.

I know it's slightly different as it's not the Chelsea fans that are criticizing, but it's still a style of play that is attracting criticism.

Don't get me wrong, I can see why West Ham are looking to progress, but I just feel that they're perhaps getting a bit ahead of themselves.
 

G.B

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#19
Mourinho has been slated for being boring and negative in recent months and they've won the title by a landslide.

I know it's slightly different as it's not the Chelsea fans that are criticizing, but it's still a style of play that is attracting criticism.

Don't get me wrong, I can see why West Ham are looking to progress, but I just feel that they're perhaps getting a bit ahead of themselves.
Yeah, but Mourinho is Mourinho. An entirely different class of manager. And as you say, he wins stuff with his style of football. I think West Ham would probably put up with Allardyce if he was winning things or performing way beyond expectation too.

Perhaps they are, the owners at any rate. I'd probably agree with you to a certain extent. We'll find out soon enough I guess.
 

JJH

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#20
I've always said West Ham fans should be very careful what that wish for - Sam Allarydce guarantees results and survival, and has even gone beyond that by being in and around the top 10 for a few seasons.

Worst time possible IMO - it would be an absolute disaster if West Ham get relegated next season, for obvious reasons.
 

Veggie Legs

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#22
Mark Warburton to replace him? London based, definitely leaving his current job, successful career so far, plays football "the right way"...
 
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#25
Silly move for me, I reckon it could result in another relegation soon, as ArmchairDieHard said, every team he's left have been relegated not long after.
 

G.B

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#26
Really? Having been a season ticket holder through Jol, Ramos, Redknapp, AVB, Sherwood and now Pochettino I'd do anything to go back to Harry's Tottenham. Yeah he was tactically retarded at times, but the football he got our squad playing was extremely entertaining most of the time and it often came off. Fucked himself over by showing interest in leaving us, similar to what Jol did, cost them both their jobs.

West Ham have probably played more entertaining football this season than us. We've also probably got a squad of lumps that would work well for the stereotypical Big Sam tactics. Poch Out Big Sam In!
It was sometimes decent on the eyes, agreed. But it was hardly the definition of total football, nothing groundbreaking at all. You got it from back to front as fast as possible, taking advantage of width (umpteen balls down the channels) and pacey wingers. Granted that didn't mean booting it in the air all the time but still, it was simple, direct football. Assou Ekotto used to punt that 60 yard diagonal long ball every single time he got hold of it :gr:

We'll have Pochettino if you're looking to get rid mate :)
 

claret50

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Thread starter #27
They want to grow. Allardyce is a small time manager with a small time mentality. And his teams' football is eye bleedingly bad the vast majority of the time. You aren't going to attract new fans to the club playing the football he does and the current fans won't be happy paying good money to watch it either. They're paying to be entertained and all too often a Fat Sam team fails to do that. Same with Pulis, good managers to stabalise a club and grind out results but not in the least bit entertaining. And that's what the sport business is about nowadays. Appealing to people then milking them for as much money as possible. See Arsenal.
Exactly!
 

G-Dragon

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#28
I can see the point of sacking Big Sam. Can he attract good players to the club if he had bigger budget? Just look at Rodgers as an example, he had loads to spent, CL, but couldn't get any top class players, instead had to pay over the odds for some duds.
 

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