Athletic Article: League One and Two Seasons to be abandoned next week

Messages
2,501
Likes
632
Location
South Cheshire
Supports
Crewe & Sporting Leyland
Thread starter #1
Matt Slater, a journalist for the Athletic, has published a story this morning saying that the League 1 and League 2 seasons are set to be abandoned within the next few days. For now, the Premier League and Championship will continue. But I assume the National League are also about to act themselves. A vote for L1 and L2 clubs will take place to decide which system will be used, but a weighted PPG looks set to be the method chosen.

https://theathletic.com/1800891/2020/05/08/leagueone-league-two-efl-ppg-coventry/ Those of you who have a sub with the Athletic can read up on things there.

In short

- Leagues more than likely to be decided on a weighted PPG system which evens out home and away games remaining as fair as they possibly can. Playoffs are to be cancelled for this year and this year only.
- Coventry, Rotherham and Oxford (current Top 3 in order) will be promoted to the Championship (The fume from Andy Pilley, DMAC, Portsmouth and Sunderland fans on Twitter is going to be quite something)
- Tranmere, Southend and Bolton to be relegated to League Two (I think Palios will accept relegation but watch Ron Martin try and do a lawsuit to try and keep Southend in League One despite them being dead and buried)
- Swindon to be Champions of League Two, Crewe 2nd, Plymouth 3rd but Cheltenham to leapfrog Exeter into 4th on PPG which means they'll be promoted and the Grecians will unfortunately miss out.
- Stevenage to finish bottom of League Two and are very likely to be relegated to the National League unless the National League null and void their season. If Stevenage go down, I believe Phil Wallace will accept it even though Macclesfield have just had a signfiicant points deduction themselves.
- Null and void in the PL and EFL appears to have receded significantly due to it favouring the worst performing sides coupled with the legal and financial risks involved (The leagues may be liable to pay Sky back significant monies owed as per the agreement) and it's not an option that will be brought to the table.

With regard to non league. This isn't mentioned in the article, but at a guess...

- If NL isn't null and voided, it looks likely that Barrow and Harrogate will be promoted to League Two next season. Again, Notts County fans will be seething at this, but they'll be fighting a losing battle if the EFL has decided to go down the PPG route with the NL wishing to follow it.
- Its uncertain what will happen in the context of relegation but it's wise to assume that, should the season not be null and voided, Chorley, Fylde and Maidenhead will be relegated with Wealdstone, Kings Lynn, York and Havant and Waterlooville promoted. This would leave the NLS and NLN with 22 and 21 clubs respectively, which means they may promote each top placed side and more than likely the best 2nd placed team from Step 3 after all to make up the numbers for their impending expansion to 24 teams each.

Interesting to see what will lie ahead as a result of this when it's formally announced. But Slater, a Southend fan himself, is a very credible source and I do believe that this will occur next week...
 

chipmunx

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,858
Likes
450
Location
United Kingdom
Supports
Barrow AFC
#2
Matt Slater, a journalist for the Athletic, has published a story this morning saying that the League 1 and League 2 seasons are set to be abandoned within the next few days. For now, the Premier League and Championship will continue. But I assume the National League are also about to act themselves. A vote for L1 and L2 clubs will take place to decide which system will be used, but a weighted PPG looks set to be the method chosen.

https://theathletic.com/1800891/2020/05/08/leagueone-league-two-efl-ppg-coventry/ Those of you who have a sub with the Athletic can read up on things there.

In short

- Leagues more than likely to be decided on a weighted PPG system which evens out home and away games remaining as fair as they possibly can. Playoffs are to be cancelled for this year and this year only.
- Coventry, Rotherham and Oxford (current Top 3 in order) will be promoted to the Championship (The fume from Andy Pilley, DMAC, Portsmouth and Sunderland fans on Twitter is going to be quite something)
- Tranmere, Southend and Bolton to be relegated to League Two (I think Palios will accept relegation but watch Ron Martin try and do a lawsuit to try and keep Southend in League One despite them being dead and buried)
- Swindon to be Champions of League Two, Crewe 2nd, Plymouth 3rd but Cheltenham to leapfrog Exeter into 4th on PPG which means they'll be promoted and the Grecians will unfortunately miss out.
- Stevenage to finish bottom of League Two and are very likely to be relegated to the National League unless the National League null and void their season. If Stevenage go down, I believe Phil Wallace will accept it even though Macclesfield have just had a signfiicant points deduction themselves.
- Null and void in the PL and EFL appears to have receded significantly due to it favouring the worst performing sides coupled with the legal and financial risks involved (The leagues may be liable to pay Sky back significant monies owed as per the agreement) and it's not an option that will be brought to the table.

With regard to non league. This isn't mentioned in the article, but at a guess...

- If NL isn't null and voided, it looks likely that Barrow and Harrogate will be promoted to League Two next season. Again, Notts County fans will be seething at this, but they'll be fighting a losing battle if the EFL has decided to go down the PPG route with the NL wishing to follow it.
- Its uncertain what will happen in the context of relegation but it's wise to assume that, should the season not be null and voided, Chorley, Fylde and Maidenhead will be relegated with Wealdstone, Kings Lynn, York and Havant and Waterlooville promoted. This would leave the NLS and NLN with 22 and 21 clubs respectively, which means they may promote each top placed side and more than likely the best 2nd placed team from Step 3 after all to make up the numbers for their impending expansion to 24 teams each.

Interesting to see what will lie ahead as a result of this when it's formally announced. But Slater, a Southend fan himself, is a very credible source and I do believe that this will occur next week...
Even worse for Notts County fans - I believe if they separate out home and away PPG they fall from 3rd to 5th - so should anyone go bust they wouldn't be next in line after Barrow and Harrogate to go up (this is due to Notts having 3 home and 5 away games left)
 

Si Robin

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,945
Likes
463
Location
Tewkesbury
Supports
Cheltenham Town
#3
- Swindon to be Champions of League Two, Crewe 2nd, Plymouth 3rd but Cheltenham to leapfrog Exeter into 4th on PPG which means they'll be promoted and the Grecians will unfortunately miss out.
Whilst promotion would be great, leapfrogging Exeter on a technicality would feel a bit hollow. Especially as we still had to play them at Whaddon Road. I suspect they'd be replacing us for the 21/22 season though to be fair.
 
Messages
2,501
Likes
632
Location
South Cheshire
Supports
Crewe & Sporting Leyland
Thread starter #4
Whilst promotion would be great, leapfrogging Exeter on a technicality would feel a bit hollow. Especially as we still had to play them at Whaddon Road. I suspect they'd be replacing us for the 21/22 season though to be fair.
Exeter have been the kings of missing out for the last few years now. This would be another cruel blow to them but they were losing form before the season was suspended.

Big blow to the likes of Colchester, Northampton and Vale with playoffs set to be scrapped. But you're not going to please everyone...
 

Greenacres

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,387
Likes
458
Location
West Country
Supports
Forest Green Rovers
#5
The suggested outcomes will undoubtedly benefit some, but not all, and disappoint others. I have got to the stage where I don't really care where my team finish in the table, that is a complete irrelevance compared to the misery that this virus is causing, I think we have bigger things to worry about than football at the moment.
 

chipmunx

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,858
Likes
450
Location
United Kingdom
Supports
Barrow AFC
#6
The suggested outcomes will undoubtedly benefit some, but not all, and disappoint others. I have got to the stage where I don't really care where my team finish in the table, that is a complete irrelevance compared to the misery that this virus is causing, I think we have bigger things to worry about than football at the moment.
True - but once this is sorted a lot of clubs can go into hibernation mode to ensure they survive this so they will be around to help lift the spirits of people later on.
 
Messages
2,501
Likes
632
Location
South Cheshire
Supports
Crewe & Sporting Leyland
Thread starter #7
Concluding the season is the first of many obstacles to clear before we can go back to football. Next will be the tough financial conversations. Caps are coming in whether owners like it or not. But I feel there can be no discussions on the matter until the top two leagues complete their respective seasons.
 

valefan16

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,995
Likes
859
Supports
Port Vale
#8
If it can’t be completed even if the home/away points puts us top 7 (haven’t seen how it pans out for us under that method but had 5 homes left to 4 away) whilst disappointing we’ve had a great season and memories beating all the top sides and the Man City tie but said all along id rather we didn’t go up/contest play offs whilst sat at home and not be able to experience it in the stadium or at Wembley.

If they don’t finish it when fans are allowed back in whenever that may be then I will accept whatever is decided.

Regardless I expect if next season can happen for us to be even stronger as we progress with our now sound financial footing and contracts mostly being already sorted in Jan/Feb hopefully.
 

chipmunx

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,858
Likes
450
Location
United Kingdom
Supports
Barrow AFC
#9
If it can’t be completed even if the home/away points puts us top 7 (haven’t seen how it pans out for us under that method but had 5 homes left to 4 away) whilst disappointing we’ve had a great season and memories beating all the top sides and the Man City tie but said all along id rather we didn’t go up/contest play offs whilst sat at home and not be able to experience it in the stadium or at Wembley.

If they don’t finish it when fans are allowed back in whenever that may be then I will accept whatever is decided.

Regardless I expect if next season can happen for us to be even stronger as we progress with our now sound financial footing and contracts mostly being already sorted in Jan/Feb hopefully.
It will (hopefully) be an interesting tussle when the ex-Barrow players in the Port Vale team play the ex-Vale players in the Barrow team...
 

Chris FGR

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,199
Likes
2,894
Supports
Forest Green
#10
If the Prem doesn't relegate, then neither should the EFL.

I would promote the top 2 from the Champ, top 2 from League 1 and top 3 from League 2. Just Barrow up from Conf, Gives you 22-24-24-22, which is pretty easy to adjust back to normal in a year or two. Teams not in auto promotion spots haven't really earned promotion imo.
 
Messages
2,501
Likes
632
Location
South Cheshire
Supports
Crewe & Sporting Leyland
Thread starter #11
If the Prem doesn't relegate, then neither should the EFL.

I would promote the top 2 from the Champ, top 2 from League 1 and top 3 from League 2. Just Barrow up from Conf, Gives you 22-24-23-22, which is pretty easy to adjust back to normal in a year or two. Teams not in auto promotion spots haven't really earned promotion imo.
Prem has to relegate owing to a tripartite charter between FA/PL/EFL that was authorised by none other than Rick Parry in the 90s. So relegation will happen one way or another.
 

Chris FGR

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,199
Likes
2,894
Supports
Forest Green
#12
Prem has to relegate owing to a tripartite charter between FA/PL/EFL that was authorised by none other than Rick Parry in the 90s. So relegation will happen one way or another.

Fair enough. So I assume all that stuff from the likes of Barber at Brighton and Purslow at Villa is just hot air then?
 
Messages
2,501
Likes
632
Location
South Cheshire
Supports
Crewe & Sporting Leyland
Thread starter #13
Fair enough. So I assume all that stuff from the likes of Barber at Brighton and Purslow at Villa is just hot air then?
Barber is worried about his own job. Barber wanted Graham Potter, he got him, he then hastily signed him to an improved 5 year deal just MONTHS into his new job. Their form has been woeful ever since and I think Barber knows he and Potter are toast if they go down. So he's trying every trick in the book to stay up on a technicality.

Villa are the same. Spent loads of money expecting survival, could go down as the team hasn't gelled which would be catastrophic for them. All trying to worm their way out on a technicality that isn't there.
 

Chris FGR

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,199
Likes
2,894
Supports
Forest Green
#14
If the Championship promote Fulham, who haven't earned automatic promotion or won the play-offs, along with Leeds and West Brom, then surely that sets a precedent?

The precedent in this case surely being the teams in the automatic places in all 3 divisions go up, and the one team in each division beginning with the letter F gets to randomly join them......
 

RLC

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,186
Likes
277
Location
Birkenhead
Supports
Tranmere Rovers
#15
No way should teams occupying play off positions be promoted automatically. If that happens I have to conclude that we have been completely shafted, particularly as it seemed highly likely we would stay up if the season was completed, on current form and squad strength.
 
Messages
2,501
Likes
632
Location
South Cheshire
Supports
Crewe & Sporting Leyland
Thread starter #16
I also reckon Tranmere would've stayed up, but the arrangements in the EFL/FA/PL tripartite charter state that whoever finishes 21st in League One will always be relegated UNLESS a club in a higher league goes bust. Of the four down only Tranmere have a right to be aggrieved in my eyes. The other three's geese were cooked.
 

RLC

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,186
Likes
277
Location
Birkenhead
Supports
Tranmere Rovers
#17
I also reckon Tranmere would've stayed up, but the arrangements in the EFL/FA/PL tripartite charter state that whoever finishes 21st in League One will always be relegated UNLESS a club in a higher league goes bust. Of the four down only Tranmere have a right to be aggrieved in my eyes. The other three's geese were cooked.
But these are exceptional circumstances. The charter does not say that the highest placed play off team is guaranteed promotion. It is far harsher to relegate a team that had a very good chance of survival, than it is to deny promotion to a team that had a 25% chance of going up, even assuming they had ultimately qualified for the play offs. In terms of fairness, it is just wrong.
 
Messages
2,501
Likes
632
Location
South Cheshire
Supports
Crewe & Sporting Leyland
Thread starter #18
But these are exceptional circumstances. The charter does not say that the highest placed play off team is guaranteed promotion. It is far harsher to relegate a team that had a very good chance of survival, than it is to deny promotion to a team that had a 25% chance of going up, even assuming they had ultimately qualified for the play offs. In terms of fairness, it is just wrong.
Correct to assume the team finishing 4th wouldn't always be promoted. But the playoffs have been scrapped so it goes back to the pre-1986 way of deciding the fourth promotion place. In addition, the team that finishes 21st in the third tier is 100% relegated every single season unless a club in the PL or Championship goes bust.

I'm not saying it's the right way at all. I've said automatics only should be promoted all along myself. But I can see why it's going ahead how it is. And I feel for you guys because had the season continued I do think you'd have got out of the mess you were in.
 

RLC

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,186
Likes
277
Location
Birkenhead
Supports
Tranmere Rovers
#19
The charter does not dictate what happens if a season is abandoned. It is not Moses' tablet of stone and the EFL can be flexible and use common sense if it wants to, which it won't.
 

AdamStag

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,007
Likes
974
Supports
Mansfield Town
#20
Don’t buy into this weighted home and away stuff, the season is 3/4 of the way through. Do it on PPG and have 4th go up.

Obviously like other suggestions they’ll be some that it suits and others than it doesn’t.
 
Messages
2,501
Likes
632
Location
South Cheshire
Supports
Crewe & Sporting Leyland
Thread starter #21
If League Two teams started the season though knowing 4 promotion places were up for grabs and then one was taken away to save the highest ranked non-relegated club though, they'd be pissed off. There's no way of pleasing everyone unfortunately. A void season is off the cards for the financial nightmare it would cause, but there's no other method that would keep Tranmere up in League One if the EFL wishes to have 4 promotion places in League Two.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing. We're obviously biased given our situations anyway. But I'm just seeing the arguments from both sides. Personally I want successful clubs to be rewarded and I don't believe in reprieving failure. But I also acknowledge that you had a fair grievance as opposed to Stevenage (pre Macc deduction anyway) Bolton and Southend.

As for the PPG/Weighted PPG argument it doesn't really affect this league. Cheltenham would be up whichever method was used. But League One is a whole different story at the top end...
 

AdamStag

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,007
Likes
974
Supports
Mansfield Town
#22
Also, in relation to the conference barrow will come up but Harrogate have a 4g pitch, which the league won’t allow, what happens then?
 
Messages
2,501
Likes
632
Location
South Cheshire
Supports
Crewe & Sporting Leyland
Thread starter #25
Well as long as it means Notts county don’t come up :lol:
Their argument that they should be allowed EFL status for finishing 23rd last year makes me laugh. I thought it was tongue in cheek at first but a few that said it were deadly serious.

No chance they'll be going up this year.
 

AdamStag

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,007
Likes
974
Supports
Mansfield Town
#26
Their argument that they should be allowed EFL status for finishing 23rd last year makes me laugh. I thought it was tongue in cheek at first but a few that said it were deadly serious.

No chance they'll be going up this year.
Yeah but as previously mentioned some Notts county fans (the lot on here are pretty decent in fairness) seem to have some misguided misplaced perception of their club and because they were once important it somehow relates to now.

On the basis that they finished 23rd last season maybe Mansfield could argue that as we finished 4th last season in league 2 we should go up to replace bury :lol: - obviously a ridiculous argument.
 

dedwardp

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,679
Likes
417
Supports
Colchester United
#27
This is a weighted league table from what I can gather, including Macclesfield's deductions afterwards;

Swindon Town 88
Crewe Alexandra 85
Plymouth Argyle 84
Cheltenham Town 82
------------------
Exeter City 81
Colchester United 72
Northampton Town 72
Port Vale 71
Bradford City 68
Salford City 62
Forest Green Rovers 62
Walsall 60
Crawley Town 59
Grimsby Town 58
Newport County 57
Cambridge United 56
Leyton Orient 54
Carlisle United 52
Oldham Athletic 51
Scunthorpe United 49
Mansfield Town 48
Morecambe 40
Macclesfield Town 34 (-11)
------------------
Stevenage 28
 
Last edited:

Chris FGR

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,199
Likes
2,894
Supports
Forest Green
#28
16th? Below Cambridge, Walsall and Crawley! No fucking way, we were in the top 10 when the season stopped,
 

Indian Dan

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,027
Likes
1,944
Location
Kefalonia
Supports
Swindon
#30
The charter does not dictate what happens if a season is abandoned. It is not Moses' tablet of stone and the EFL can be flexible and use common sense if it wants to, which it won't.
What common sense do you want them to use? There has to be relegation/promotion decided so what criteria would have them use? Any which way I reckon you’re toast.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
14,972
Messages
928,015
Members
5,129
Latest member
meysam0121

Latest posts