Derby v Brentford

Rammy

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Before they sacked their manager I'd have been confident of sneaking a point, but don't hold too much hope now.

Derby 1-2 Brentford
 

Mr Elmo

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#2
Confident we should win this, but we really do need to improve performances because it's still not there yet, Brentford are struggling though.

2-0
 

Rammy

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Lee Carsley will beat us.

I'd be worried if I was a Brentford fan though. Given the job for the whole season, but has today said he has never wanted to be a manager, and won't continue beyond the end of the season. Sounds like he's been forced in to it, rather than asked if he wanted to. Can't fill them with much optimism.

Why exactly haven't you starting looking for a new manager immediately?
 

toshj

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#4
Not looking good for us. Remember when we played you a few seasons back in the League Cup and we lost 6-0 by fielding a development squad line up? Well, with our current line up of fit players I imagine the score will be similar.

Got my ticket though :)
 

MagpieBee

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#7
We were terrible on Tuesday. Can't see any reason why we'd be better on Sunday, when you haven't had to play since the weekend.

Definite loss here unfortunately. Will be a little while until we get our act together.
 

91SPP

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#10
I believe we will win this... therefore, we're bound to lose.

I'm not confident of a good performance, regardless.
 

Mr Elmo

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#13
One of those comfortable 2-0 matches that you seem to get from time to time, never really in trouble bar Christie blocking a shot off the line and we were pretty good all around.

Much better now, onto Wolves in 2 weeks.
 

Rammy

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Excellent performance, first half especially. Should have been more, but it was comfortable.

13 pts from 15 during this block of games is a superb return, and we're starting to look good now after that poor start.

Brentford were pretty poor. Swift looked pretty good when he came on.
 

MagpieBee

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#16
It's going to be a very long and hard season. Don't see this changing quickly. Things have got much worse in the last week.
 

toshj

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#18
Underwhelmed. We've gone from attacking and vibrant football to our players not wanting the ball and losing belief in the space of a few months. I'm not one of those clamouring about Warburton leaving - as I totally side with Benham on the issue - but our football is completely unrecognisable from that of recent years.

FFP is a real nightmare and massively restricts clubs like Brentford who want to spend responsibly :( I do wonder if Benham would have ever taken over the club if he knew his investment and ambitions would be so significantly hamstrung by the powers that be.
 

MagpieBee

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#19
Underwhelmed. We've gone from attacking and vibrant football to our players not wanting the ball and losing belief in the space of a few months. I'm not one of those clamouring about Warburton leaving - as I totally side with Benham on the issue - but our football is completely unrecognisable from that of recent years.

FFP is a real nightmare and massively restricts clubs like Brentford who want to spend responsibly :( I do wonder if Benham would have ever taken over the club if he knew his investment and ambitions would be so significantly hamstrung by the powers that be.
I don't think FFP really has hampered us that much. We would have sold Gray anyway for that money, and Odubajo had a release clause. We've brought in a lot of players and really it's recruitment's fault if they aren't good enough, not FFP. We spent more money than last year, we should have a much better squad. Once everyone comes back I think we will, but we don't have a good balance in the side regardless. We are crying out for a strong dominating defensive midfielder, and a very quick winger (or two) but haven't got them in. I think Woods is a great prospect, but he's in exactly the same mould as 2-3 of our other players. Not sure why we bought him instead of someone more dominating and defensive.

Getting rid of Marinus seems to be a worse decision by the day. Carsley clearly doesn't want the job, and tactically we've been awful the past 2 games. Don't know why we couldn't have given him more time, don't buy the "training methods" excuse.

I also back Benham over the Warbs issue 100%, but the decisions since Warbs left that him and the management team have made have been terrible. I lay the predicament we are in squarely at their door.

(We also wouldn't be able to be in this position without some great management in the past few years from them. Not saying Benham out at all, give him time to put it right, but the reason what is happening is happening is down to him and the management team.)
 

MagpieBee

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#22
Does that mean Ipswich are finishing 19th and 20th? I remember only 4 weeks ago you said you were certain you'd be within a few positions of ourselves come May. :err: Should I be duly concerned?
I don't think anyone could have seen what has happened to us over the past 2 months happening.

To lose your pitch, 12 first team players to injury and a manager, as well as selling 2 of your best players, it's not surprising we are where we are.
 
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#23
How can you have 12 first team players? Only 11 are allowed ;-). Are you telling me that the team fielded yesterday, none would start if all players were fit?
 

MagpieBee

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#24
How can you have 12 first team players? Only 11 are allowed ;-). Are you telling me that the team fielded yesterday, none would start if all players were fit?
First team would be anyone not in the youth team :p we have a squad of 24, so a lot of youngsters have made the bench of late (including one game where we only had 6 subs, two of whom were goalies)

It could be argued that we had 7-8 players missing from our strongest XI. A couple have come back now, still a few to go. It's tricky to say what our strongest XI would be at this point, but I'd say:

Button

COLIN - TARKOWSKI - BJELLAND - Bidwell

Diagouraga - MCEACHRAN

JOTA - Judge - GOGIA

HOFMANN

With all those in caps having been injured, a couple just come back for the Derby game but still not up to fitness. There are another 5-6 players injured outside of that list.
 

Luke_1884

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#25
Doubt Brentford will play much worse than that this season, even the bits I've seen of them before yesterday were much more impressive and competitive. Be interesting to see how they shape up when the get players back and how they fit into Carsley's approach.

First half we were bang on, exactly the type of performance we crave at home. Exploited their full backs very well and we really should have scored a couple more. Second half was much more subdued but how many chances do we need? Bradley Johnson is becoming a fans favorite already, he's an absolute beast. That pass from Thorne too.... Beauty.

Good way to end this batch of games, a nice return. Things are looking decent and if we can keep Thorne fit and continue defending like we are I'm confident we'll do ok.
 

mpmbee

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#26
Thought Derby were impressive in the first half especially, although it was hard to gauge how good they were as that was the worst I've seen us play since we've been in the Championship. Worrying times at the moment, putting our injuries to one side some of the new signings look some way off the quality required. The international break has come at a great time for us.
 

toshj

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#27
I don't think FFP really has hampered us that much. We would have sold Gray anyway for that money, and Odubajo had a release clause. We've brought in a lot of players and really it's recruitment's fault if they aren't good enough, not FFP. We spent more money than last year, we should have a much better squad. Once everyone comes back I think we will, but we don't have a good balance in the side regardless. We are crying out for a strong dominating defensive midfielder, and a very quick winger (or two) but haven't got them in. I think Woods is a great prospect, but he's in exactly the same mould as 2-3 of our other players. Not sure why we bought him instead of someone more dominating and defensive.

Getting rid of Marinus seems to be a worse decision by the day. Carsley clearly doesn't want the job, and tactically we've been awful the past 2 games. Don't know why we couldn't have given him more time, don't buy the "training methods" excuse.

I also back Benham over the Warbs issue 100%, but the decisions since Warbs left that him and the management team have made have been terrible. I lay the predicament we are in squarely at their door.

(We also wouldn't be able to be in this position without some great management in the past few years from them. Not saying Benham out at all, give him time to put it right, but the reason what is happening is happening is down to him and the management team.)
FFP has been a massive issue for us. We have the lowest turnover in the league, a minted owner who wants to invest heavily in the playing budget but without increasing debt and a FFP that won't let us. We were going to properly go for it this season and tell the league to 'do one' over FFP but it seems that the ramifications will be far too damaging in the medium and long term. As a result we've had to fully comply with FFP and whilst we'd have always likely sold Gray if we attracted such bids, we'd planned to have bought in significant replacements without FFP interfering - that's why the team lacks balance as you rightly put it. Like you said, we need a proper defensive midfielder and a winger, both were identified and we could have afforded to bring them in but FFP prevented us from doing so.

On Dijkuizen, the club have had 3 months of data on the standard of our training and the quality has dropped off so significantly since last year and was well below the expectations and targets Dijkuizen was meant to meet. The fitness levels have plummeted to alarming positions and the coordination of training has been terrible, with the new coaches barely being involved by Dijkuizen and Hendriksen. I strongly doubt that Carsley is the best option for us, but a change had to be made before our training levels wrecked the entire season.
 
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#28
How much money have you bought into the club this season? I'm predicting that you've made circa net income of £15m from sales of Dallas, Gray and Odubajo. We've spent big (around £20m) but ours has been staggered oversee a few years to comply with FFP.

I'm sorry but it all sounds like excuses to me to back your chairman on a mistake where he's trying to be revolutionary in his football club model. That and bad bad luck with injuries.
 

toshj

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#29
How much money have you bought into the club this season? I'm predicting that you've made circa net income of £15m from sales of Dallas, Gray and Odubajo. We've spent big (around £20m) but ours has been staggered oversee a few years to comply with FFP.

I'm sorry but it all sounds like excuses to me to back your chairman on a mistake where he's trying to be revolutionary in his football club model. That and bad bad luck with injuries.
We bought in £6m for Gray (with £1.05m going to Luton), £3m for Odubajo (with £400k going to Orient), £1m for Grigg (with £150k to Walsall) and £1.25m for Dallas, with is roughly £9.65m. We spent roughly £6m, plus having to pay off Craig and Douglas (which is more than you'd think! Worryingly so...). We overspent last season, thinking FFP was a load of rubbish, and were doing so again this season before deciding to take it more seriously. So within the Gray money we'd have likely failed FFP by a fair whack. We don't tend to lay out a great deal in fees, but have been paying wages that would hopefully elevate the club. That said, with financial backing aside, we would be the poorest club by a significant distance in the Championship. So, even to be out of the relegation zone is us overachieving.

In terms of backing the owner, why wouldn't I? He provided wage money in 2008/2009 to get us out of League Two, invested more thereafter and this has seen us get promoted out of League One, hit the Championship play-offs, completely develop an academy, get a new ground sorted (not an easy thing to do in London!), etc. Without his input over the past 6 - 7 years we'd be well out of the football league by now. With regards to him trying to be a revolutionary with regards to his football model, again why wouldn't we back him? We're applying the same models as we did last season (finishing 5th, playing beautiful football), and also the same system that got us out of League One, and has seen his other side win the Danish title for the first time ever - they're performing well again this season, doing well in Europe, knocking out Southampton, etc.) and sees him personally making around ~£100m per year applying his models to the football/sports betting industry. It's a pretty compelling track record. Yet, the average football fan/pundit is desperate to see us fail.

We attempted to pursue a better quality of player this year, but at the same time retaining value by buying predominantly European - English U21 forward Berahino was subject to a £23m bid from Spurs this summer, whereas we signed the German U21 striker for £800,000 - and have seen various current and former youth internationals join the side. It's probably the most accomplished squad the club has ever had since the 30's.

It's all been completely shit since the first game of the season with us making a huge mistake in hiring Dijkhuizen, and having the majority of our better players out on long term injuries. Some things are mistakes, others misfortune, but mistakes happen. The owner is having to restructure things in order to save our season, but this is our first wobble in 6 or so seasons since he got involved, and the first he's experienced as an owner after several successful seasons in England and Denmark.

To not back him would be embarrassingly fickle, and to say a statistical approach doesn't work at all is to ignore the success we've had over the past three seasons and the Danes have had in one and a bit years.
 
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#30
I recognise that the guy has done an awful lot for the club but that doesn't mean he can't do things wrong and be scrutinised for it.

i find it very strange that you'd be happy with a method the way that the team and transfers are managed based upon statistics etc when you're the only club that I know if that does it? The owner doesn't come from a football background and Brentford are his club based on being a fan (tell me if I'm wrong). Find it strange that you're happy it.

Anyway, eventually it doesn't really matter - just think that fans who don't question anything or criticise a major figure at a football club get complacent. Look at wenger at arsenal.
 

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