Graeme Jones / LTFC Management Team sacked

Kenneth E End

Well-Known Member
Didn't see that one coming in the current circumstances. Along with Brabin, Idiakez and Etxeberria.

Big financial correction coming in the Championship.

Harford to act as "relationship manager".
 

That Fat Centre Half

Well-Known Member
Must admit im pretty concerned about this and what sort of indication this gives as to what position we are in financially at the moment. It seems a purely financially driven decision going off the club statement.

Id imagine that with Promotion to the Championship our costs have gone way, way up in a short period of time and with income now basically nil i could see us needing to cut costs pretty drastically and hence us being the first to do something like this.

Not too keen on the "there will be no further comment" at the end, could do with Gary Sweet giving us a bit of an update on whats going on financially right now but i guess its all commercially sensitive.
 

T.A

Well-Known Member
Its a results business and he's clearly not getting the best out of his players recently...
 

Kenneth E End

Well-Known Member
We are one of the tightest run ships in the Championship, but being in KR meant we were always going to need to rely on investors to underwrite losses across the business - that said, we were expecting to break even for the first time in 30 years this season. Obviously we have a couple of very important assets on a big mortgage that must be retained at all costs.

Other clubs / basket cases in this division are going to be massively struggling and something has to go eventually.

I can’t help thinking this is all linked to inaction from the EFL. Clearly if we furloughed all of the playing staff or even cancelled contracts we lose all rights to future transfer fees.
 

Vanni

Well-Known Member
Seems to me you lot are missing us and I don't blame you, 'cos it sure was fun when we were in the same league. And not forgetting all those cup games as well.

Shall I keep your seat warm Kenny? ;)

ps - give us a call when you decide to offload the white pele. Cheers.
 

That Fat Centre Half

Well-Known Member
Seems to me you lot are missing us and I don't blame you, 'cos it sure was fun when we were in the same league. And not forgetting all those cup games as well.

Shall I keep your seat warm Kenny? ;)

ps - give us a call when you decide to offload the white pele. Cheers.
Might not be too long before we meet again, we love back to back relegations as much as promotions it seems!

Think Berrys contract is up at the end of the season so could see him being gone given the financial state the club is probably in can’t see us handing out new contracts. He was probably going to be leaving in any case I’d have thought. If it were me and I’ve wanted to keep him though, would have been good to have in league 1.
 

Son of Cod

Well-Known Member
We are one of the tightest run ships in the Championship, but being in KR meant we were always going to need to rely on investors to underwrite losses across the business - that said, we were expecting to break even for the first time in 30 years this season. Obviously we have a couple of very important assets on a big mortgage that must be retained at all costs.

Other clubs / basket cases in this division are going to be massively struggling and something has to go eventually.

I can’t help thinking this is all linked to inaction from the EFL. Clearly if we furloughed all of the playing staff or even cancelled contracts we lose all rights to future transfer fees.
How on earth didn't you break even the season you sold Andre Gray or Jack Marriot/Cameron McGeehan?Does that show how ridiculous your wage budget has been at times in the lower divisions?
 
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That Fat Centre Half

Well-Known Member
How on earth didn't you break even the season you sold Andre Gray or Jack Marriot/Cameron McGeehan?Does that show ridiculous your wage budget has been at times in the lower divisions?
The football club made a profit the season we sold Marriott/McGeehan of about 600k despite the players we brought in (Collins, Berry et al).

The holding company that owns the club has significant losses related to the new stadium plans but they are 2 different businesses. It’s a simplification but 2020 are essentially a property development company with significant land holdings, who happen to own a football club at this point.
 

Kenneth E End

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure this is accurate - the footballing side made around a £600k loss that season, but at the same time they were building up the Brache as a training base which cost well over £1m to finance.

Anyway, back on topic and there still hasn't been any cross division consensus as to how these players are going to be paid over the coming months and certainly not how or when the season is going to be finished.

Today is supposed to be the last day of the season. It just has to be cancelled and allow the clubs to know where they stand. Surely clubs are going to be sent even closer to the edge the longer this goes on.
 

That Fat Centre Half

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure this is accurate - the footballing side made around a £600k loss that season, but at the same time they were building up the Brache as a training base which cost well over £1m to finance.

Anyway, back on topic and there still hasn't been any cross division consensus as to how these players are going to be paid over the coming months and certainly not how or when the season is going to be finished.

Today is supposed to be the last day of the season. It just has to be cancelled and allow the clubs to know where they stand. Surely clubs are going to be sent even closer to the edge the longer this goes on.
Got it from here
He is normally spot on with these things too although there is a back and forth on that thread with a Luton fan about how is analysing the data
 
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Kenneth E End

Well-Known Member
Without going into too much detail as it is digressing, but it is very difficult to make a full determination without seeing the full accounts, as a small company they are not obliged to do. And even then, these accounts can be managed in different ways to get the 'right' (tax efficient) result. He knows this - he calls it a loophole, but every small company in the UK doesn't release full data. In my own company, I don't release full details. To say LTFC 2020 are essentially a property development company with significant land holdings, who happen to own a football club at this point is accurate.

What is wrong on that thread is that Luton didn't pay for a player up until that season. We all know that isn't the case.
 

That Fat Centre Half

Well-Known Member
Without going into too much detail as it is digressing, but it is very difficult to make a full determination without seeing the full accounts, as a small company they are not obliged to do. And even then, these accounts can be managed in different ways to get the 'right' (tax efficient) result. He knows this - he calls it a loophole, but every small company in the UK doesn't release full data. In my own company, I don't release full details. To say LTFC 2020 are essentially a property development company with significant land holdings, who happen to own a football club at this point is accurate.

What is wrong on that thread is that Luton didn't pay for a player up until that season. We all know that isn't the case.
Yep all fair points Ken and I think he has mentioned that in a few other places when doing analysis of other clubs and our own the without full accounts its difficult.

Gary Sweet did a decent interview on that blokes podcast a week or so ago, unfortunately the day before the GJ sacking/mutual termination/whatever we are calling it so that doesn't get mentioned, but it still gives a good insight into whats going on with us financially. Kieran Maguire clearly see us as doing things "right" which seems good..

Wouldn't worry about digressing - there is cock all else going on!
 

Kenneth E End

Well-Known Member
So who's in the running to replace Jones... personally, I don't really care right now considering what is happening in both football and the world, but media seem to be speculating every day right now.

The favourite is Nathan Jones to come back. For me, no way considering how he left.

Steve Robinson has been mentioned in previous managerial rounds; a fomer player and doing great in Scotland, but doesn't play the style of football that would be popular in Luton.

Tommy Wright has just quit St Johnstone in Scotland.

Nigel Adkins is a good shout - he's got a good record and plays an attractive brand of football.

This morning Chris Coleman has been touted - there is no way we could afford him.

I think the club will go with someone completely left field again, as like with everyone, there are clear budget constraints.
 

That Fat Centre Half

Well-Known Member
At least until there is some timeline as to when we will be playing again I don't think we will be actively looking to get a new manager, this was a money move to keep the club above water for a few months and not really a reflection of what the club thought of Jones. In normal circumstances I think hed have his job even if we got relegated. Don't know why but I get the feeling he would have walked though - he always had that air to me that he thought League 1 and League 1 players (some of whom I really feel he treated with obvious disdain at times) were beneath him.

Looks very likely that we will be in League 1 when this rolls around probably deservedly on balance so Im not sure names like Coleman or Adkins will be looking at us and im not sure Id want them, especially the former of those 2 who I think is majorly overrated.

Seen Nathan Jones being touted but i think those bridges are very much burned, plus his whole aura and every thing that goes with him, just wouldn't work a second time around knowing how the first time played out.

When we are ready we will probably go to a bit of a left field choice. Although I dont really want him, Id like someone who has a similar approach to how Nathan Jones built the League 2 and League 1 sides. We had a clear way of playing and recruited the right players to play it. That was quite literally what got us here and for me a major reason why we looked to be heading the other way - crap recruitment with no plan as to why we were bringing in certain players. I like the sound of Steve Robinson for that reason having read a few articles about what he has done with Motherwell, especially recruiting on a small budget. That was the downfall of us this season IMO, crap recruitment on the part of Jones looking for "championship proven" players on a League 1 budget and Id like us to look for people with a bit more vision than that.
 

That Fat Centre Half

Well-Known Member
What are you basing this on?
Yes we're in the bottom three, but we were only 6 points behind with 9 games left against primarily those in the bottom half. Not unsurmountable by any means.
Us being 23rd in the table perhaps? I’m basing off that it looks like the season doesn’t look like it will be completed with us very much buried in the relegation zone and the fact we are 6 points from safety and us spending a decent chunk of the season playing like shit. Even if we played the games we’ve still Leeds, Preston, Swansea, Blackburn (look at their form more recently). Yes we had some “easier” games to play as well but our better run included some of those too and and we didn’t win key games against Charlton, Wigan and Stoke even though we had an upturn in form. The latter of those 2 were must wins for me and whilst draws in isolation were ok in context of the season weren’t enough.

Even if you completely ignore the fairly high likelihood that those games won’t be played and the season will be decided off the pitch by some other means, or even if they are played behind closed doors, the loss of home field advantage that the Kenny provides us as shown by some of our Tuesday night games, it’s absolutely more likely we would go down than stay up with how things were looking regardless of us looking a bit better over the last few games that got played. I think even the most one eyed of Town fan can see that regardless of more recent form we were very much up against it, we could do it but....that’s what “likely” means!

Add to that if the season goes past June we’d need to agree something with a quite few players whose contracts are up, some of whom very key like Rea, to get them to play on which given the GJ decision signalling something a little concerning RE the money situation....on the preponderance of likeliness you can see where I’m coming from!

Removing everything external and just going on the known things, I’d have thought differently if we’d have beaten one of Stoke, Wigan or Charlton but we didn’t win any of those winnable games. We looked better but not better by enough IMO
 
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Kenneth E End

Well-Known Member
Wow, this place is absolutely dead.

So mid-May, still no movement on absolutely anything, not that the national situation has changed much.

I still think the only fair method is to null and void the season - not mathematical scenarios; you can't predict what would've happened. Whilst I agree that I hate no games being played and if it was truly possible to finish it; of course that's the way to stay up, we cannot keep doing this forever. Teams haven't played for two months and the clubs themselves are bleeding cash and the players are not helping the situation at all.

Next payday is coming quickly down the track. Something has to give.

What needs to happen immediately is that all players should be put on furlough and all registrations frozen, removing any clubs breach of contract obligations.
 

That Fat Centre Half

Well-Known Member
Wow, this place is absolutely dead.

So mid-May, still no movement on absolutely anything, not that the national situation has changed much.

I still think the only fair method is to null and void the season - not mathematical scenarios; you can't predict what would've happened. Whilst I agree that I hate no games being played and if it was truly possible to finish it; of course that's the way to stay up, we cannot keep doing this forever. Teams haven't played for two months and the clubs themselves are bleeding cash and the players are not helping the situation at all.

Next payday is coming quickly down the track. Something has to give.

What needs to happen immediately is that all players should be put on furlough and all registrations frozen, removing any clubs breach of contract obligations.
In a way I wouldnt mind going down just so we can interact with some other fans! This place died long before COVID took a hold.

There is no real fair way of concluding the season any longer - so its about finding the most "fair" of the "unfair" options. For that reason I was behind the Promotion with no relegation, with promotion decided by something like weighted PPG, as the "fairest" way of concluding the season but that seems to have been totally ignored as an option by those in the EFL for reasons Ive never been entirely clear on to be honest. Id assume it would have something to do with the PL not wanting to expand for a season and share the wealth a bit more. Seemed the best balance of rewarding those who had a decent season and not overly punishing those who still could have had a shot at getting out of trouble (which pretty much everyone did!).

I do think its getting ridiculous with each league in the EFL seemingly deciding different things though. Cant believe they seem to be going with unweighted PPG either - looks like we will be replaced by Wycombe who are currently 8th in L1 and weren't in the best of forms - seems like they are just being rewarded for playing fewer games. If we are going to decide something off the pitch at least use a model that has the most context behind it.

The fact that the playoffs seem to also be taking place seems a little harsh on those at the bottom of the league who arent going to get any opportunity to play for there futures like they are. If some clubs fates are being decided off the pitch then I think every clubs should be - shouldn't be one rule for one set of clubs and another for others.

Voiding isnt an option as I understand it due to the "refund" the TV companies would want as a result of it and to be honest id be uneasy at just throwing out so many games - that doesnt seem particularly sporting or a good way of going about it.

My overriding concern/worry at the moment though is making sure that the club are around next season. If we end up getting relegated without another game being played Id be disappointed but accept it because its just such a ridiculous situation. Im really concerned that we are going to be swept up in the rush of championship clubs wanting to play behind closed doors as I am not sure we are very well placed to support that financially compared to the rest of the division and id worry where that would leave us in preparing for next season - whenever that may be.
 

djs

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Unfortunately there is NO fair way of sorting this out and never will be.

One thing that annoys me is the utter failure of leadership from the 'powers', possibly due to things like Sky money. This has had a knock-on effect on lower levels right down to non-league who just don't know where they stand, with clubs who had already won promotion being denied their reward.

In addition the situation has thrown into sharp focus the utter selfishness of the vast majority of people involved. Most clubs and supporters only interested in what benefits THEM, not the game as a whole. Players have come out of this really badly in general, as have the PFA and their grossly overpaid so called leader.

Football really stinks at the moment, although to be fair it has been heading this way for quite a while. There are no morals in the FA/EFL/Premiership leadership, nor in most clubs/ players. While I have mostly enjoyed watching us take on Championship teams this season, this league is quickly going the same way, and I wouldn't be disappointed if we went down, certainly the lower leagues are more fun. (I agree with the comments about the different forums on this site as well but I won't go into that now)
 

Kenneth E End

Well-Known Member
Correct - there is no fair way apart from the level playing field of null and void. Akin to Chester when their results were "expunged" years ago.
 

djs

Site Supporter
Site Supporter
Unfortunately null and void is just as unfair as any other method, see my comment about clubs who had already 'won' promotion, or who have effectively been relegated already.
 

That Fat Centre Half

Well-Known Member
On the manager front sounds like GS doesn't have any interest in getting anyone in from the statements made today. Seems very focused on just keeping us above water at the moment which is obviously the right call from his perspective.

So seems like we will roll with Mick as the manager should the league return, which i'm sure Mick is ecstatic about!!
 

SF_

Well-Known Member
If this league used that weighted points system then the table would be unchanged wouldn't it?
I'll take that, thank you very much assuming the play-offs would take place eventually.
 

That Fat Centre Half

Well-Known Member
Statement yesterday was that the league would look to use unweighted rather than weighted.

Being honest with you I’ve not looked at the differences between those 2 as we will be down under anything, and if I’m honest I’m not really arsed what league we are in just that we can keep ourselves above water if it comes down to it as the financial situation seems grave, but seems like weighted is out as an option

If this league used that weighted points system then the table would be unchanged wouldn't it?
I'll take that, thank you very much assuming the play-offs would take place eventually.
 

SF_

Well-Known Member
Statement yesterday was that the league would look to use unweighted rather than weighted.

Being honest with you I’ve not looked at the differences between those 2 as we will be down under anything, and if I’m honest I’m not really arsed what league we are in just that we can keep ourselves above water if it comes down to it as the financial situation seems grave, but seems like weighted is out as an option
Yeah, i've no idea which is which.

Just read that if the games don't get played the league probably stays as it is.
 

Kenneth E End

Well-Known Member
I trust 2020 and certainly am very surprised that they took him back after the way it ended, but I cant pretend that I'm not unhappy with this. That said, he is local, probably cheap and looking for a way back in and the players seem to have his confidence and trust. I caught an interview with Harry Cornick a few days ago and he said that he was his most influential manager. Made me go hmm...:pond:
 

That Fat Centre Half

Well-Known Member
Wow. Pretty shocked at this I have to say, even recently he was viewed quite negatively by those on the board. If they have managed to bridge there differences then we have to give him the benefit of the doubt I guess.

Understand the logic, he knows most the players and the newer ones like brown and ccv are ones he would really love I think, but crucially we don’t have the fullbacks to play how he wants to anymore. Interested to see if he bins the diamond as a result of that. I doubt it knowing him!

Also has it been clarified if this is just for these remaining 9 games?
 

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