Greece

Tilbury

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Thread starter #1
So pretty incredibly Syriza won the most seats in the elections yesterday and have formed a coalition government with some centre-rights (also very anti-austerity). Where does this leave Greece in relation to the EU?
Interesting times ahead.
greece election results.jpg
 

SUTSS

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#3
Too many influential people in Europe that will do everything they can to make them fail.
 

slaphead

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#4
I'm going to show solidarity with the Greeks today....

I'm having lunch at a Greek restaurant and I'm leaving without paying the bill.
 

AFCB_Mark

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#5
Fair play to the Greek hard left and right for coming together to form a majority, putting aside party politics and left/right rivalry to instead push through what they see as the best thing for their country. Whether it will be or not, only time will tell.

Would love to be a fly on the wall of the negotiations between the Germans and European bankers and these Greeks though. Fascinating stand off.

A debt level that is getting on for 200% of GDP is a mind boggling prospect though. How can you even begin to get that under control.
 
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#6
Fair play to the Greek hard left and right for coming together to form a majority, putting aside party politics and left/right rivalry to instead push through what they see as the best thing for their country. Whether it will be or not, only time will tell.

Would love to be a fly on the wall of the negotiations between the Germans and European bankers and these Greeks though. Fascinating stand off.

A debt level that is getting on for 200% of GDP is a mind boggling prospect though. How can you even begin to get that under control.
They say that the dept cannot be handled under no circumstances and austerity measures will not help..So they want to re-negotiate it..A debt restructuring is what they want..I doubt they will succeed though..
 
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Alty

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#7
Three main options as far as I can see:

1. Greeks succeed in their renegotiation of the bail-out terms.

2. Germans refuse to allow any change in the terms, Greeks leave the Euro and go back to the Drachma.

3. Germans play hardball and after months of deadlock in negotiations, the fragile Greek governing coalition begins to disintegrate.

Fair play to the ordinary Greeks who've voted to end their years of misery. But I fear option 3 is most likely.
 

Tilbury

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I hope if option three happens they go round in a cirlce. Another election with the anti-austerity parties gaining an even more resounding victory, tell Merkel, the EU and banks/markets to stuff themselves.
 

Ebeneezer Goode

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#9
Sounds nice in theory, but the moment they do that is the moment that Greek promises become worthless, and international banks stop lending them money. The same thing that would have happened to Scotland if they'd decided they didn't want to take their share of UK debt.
 

rudebwoyben

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#10
Three main options as far as I can see:

1. Greeks succeed in their renegotiation of the bail-out terms.

2. Germans refuse to allow any change in the terms, Greeks leave the Euro and go back to the Drachma.

3. Germans play hardball and after months of deadlock in negotiations, the fragile Greek governing coalition begins to disintegrate.

Fair play to the ordinary Greeks who've voted to end their years of misery. But I fear option 3 is most likely.
If option 3 does come about, this will very likely result in an increase in support for Golden Dawn and could eventually propel them into power, is this what the ECB and Germany want to happen?
There had to be a change of government, the course New Democracy was taking was just leading Greece to a slow death. Syriza's course of action is the most daring yet the most sensible one and the people who make up Syriza do not come from the political classes who created this situation, which could make them better placed to confront vested interests.
 

mistermagic

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#11
Loving the market reaction to the news. The Greek stock market (yes, there is one) lost 9% today and all the banks posted losses.
 
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If option 3 does come about, this will very likely result in an increase in support for Golden Dawn and could eventually propel them into power, is this what the ECB and Germany want to happen?
There had to be a change of government, the course New Democracy was taking was just leading Greece to a slow death. Syriza's course of action is the most daring yet the most sensible one and the people who make up Syriza do not come from the political classes who created this situation, which could make them better placed to confront vested interests.
Golden Dawn will never be in power through democratic procedures...They have commited serious crimes..People know what they really are..And we are talking about a country that was ruled by Nazis who massacred thousands of people and then experience a military coup..
So,yes,there are desperate people who vote for them just by anger...But they won't be the leading party..In a country where left-wing is really strong..There is not only Syriza to represent left wing..
 

rudebwoyben

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#13
Golden Dawn will never be in power through democratic procedures...They have commited serious crimes..People know what they really are..And we are talking about a country that was ruled by Nazis who massacred thousands of people and then experience a military coup..
So,yes,there are desperate people who vote for them just by anger...But they won't be the leading party..In a country where left-wing is really strong..There is not only Syriza to represent left wing..
I would hope so but with Greece still being a divided society from the legacy of the civil war of the late 1940s, it's not difficult to envisage a situation where Golden Dawn gain the support of all of part of Greek society that were on the Royalist side in the Civil War.
 
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#14
I would hope so but with Greece still being a divided society from the legacy of the civil war of the late 1940s, it's not difficult to envisage a situation where Golden Dawn gain the support of all of part of Greek society that were on the Royalist side in the Civil War.
Well yes Civil War was really bad,but 3.2 million people (69% of the voters) voted against the royal family back in the 70's,so i wouldn't say that there was a real support for the royals..Now,people don't even remember that the country had a royal family once..
Anyway,financial crisis always strengthen far right parties,even neo-nazis..But i don't think that,especially in Greece,they have a real chance of getting in charge..
 

SUTSS

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Greek stock markets rallying with a debt swap potentially on the horizon.
 
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Alty

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#21
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32332221

Something tells me they'll fudge it and get some short to medium term deal that sees Greece stay in.

You have to hand it to the Greeks though. They haven't bent over despite overwhelming pressure from...well...just about everyone.

Disappointed Varoufakis has had to pull out of QT tonight but I guess he has a fair bit on his plate :D
 

BigDaveCUFC

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#22
its a tough one really, on one hand i've little sympathy for Greece who have been ridiculously budgetted before the crash and really lumped it all on themselves.

on the other hand i remember afew years ago my sister getting into debt and ending up having to take a loan with a ridiculous interest fee and of course any money she then gained moving forward went to pay the interest and never the debt......until my dad paid the full fee and made her pay him back with no interest.....Greece just remind me of the unlucky mug stuck paying back a loan shark.

its ok to demand this, that and other, but it really also needs a situation where they can be put into a proper position to be able to pay funds back.
 

.V.

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#23
I could be wrong, but I think I read somewhere that their economy has contracted by 20% as a result of austerity.
 

nousername

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Austerity has obviously had a massive impact on the Greek economy, but equally, the money has been lent to them at rock-bottom interest rates over a time-frame that I read is as long as 50 years. Other countries have also had to make difficult cuts, e.g. Ireland and Portugal, but their economies are on the mend. Why Greece?

The creditors are probably getting increasingly pissed off that the current Greek leaders are unwilling to implement any serious reforms or introduce liberal policies to the market. The same (crap) policies that got them into the debt aren't going to get them out.

Interesting times in the Euro. I wonder if (or how) this might impact our referendum?
 

Opposite

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#27
Austerity has obviously had a massive impact on the Greek economy, but equally, the money has been lent to them at rock-bottom interest rates over a time-frame that I read is as long as 50 years. Other countries have also had to make difficult cuts, e.g. Ireland and Portugal, but their economies are on the mend. Why Greece?

The creditors are probably getting increasingly pissed off that the current Greek leaders are unwilling to implement any serious reforms or introduce liberal policies to the market. The same (crap) policies that got them into the debt aren't going to get them out.

Interesting times in the Euro. I wonder if (or how) this might impact our referendum?
Actually they are proposing some measures way more different that the previous governments..But EU are not accepting them..

The sad thing is that they are only 2% of Europe's economy..Too small to take the risk in my humble opinion..
 

.V.

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#28
So austerity clearly hasn't worked in Greece, yet the Troica insist on more austerity. Clearly this is being driven by the neo liberals, wanting to open Greece up to mass privatisation. No wonder the Greeks are hacked off, the Troika have made things worse and insist on them selling off the family silver.
 

BigDaveCUFC

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#29
The political minefield of today is probably stopping a lot of solutions.

The current Greece Government was pretty much voted because they claimed they would end Austerity and therefore they cannot as such back down and carry on or else they frankly lost what people voted them in for.

on flip side if the creditors did back down on Greece that leaves a lot of room for other parties wide left or right to get in power in countries claiming they too can remove the austerity......a dangerous path.

so its trying to save face on both sides which could be impossible.
 

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