Pollution deaths

Techno Natch

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,789
Likes
860
Supports
Bristol City
Thread starter #1
I read the other day that 29,000 people die every year that are linked to Pollution in the UK.

I'm not sure how they can prove the link so I'd advise caution but even if its considerably less then that its still an extremely high number.

World wide the numbers are high to:

http://www.theguardian.com/environm...tion-than-malaria-and-hivaids-new-study-shows

I always hear the debate around pollution being centred on the enviroment but very rarely the human cost today. In a country that has banned smoking in doors for public health reasons it seems bizzare that we avoid tackling this issue.

Two white hall departments have even gone as far as to say that they have ignored clean air rules.

Why isn't this seen as a bigger issue? Is it because it's unseen and difficult to prove or is it simply because we don't know what to do about it? Or is it simply that to make serious changes and many industries would also lose money?

Also is there the appetite among people in the UK to even make serious changes? Green policies often draw criticism especially if it costs people more money or requires them not to use the car. I am unsure though if people really understand how damaging pollution can be, not only to their health but to their childrens health. Maybe because we don't see it and we can't control it directly.

My city Bristol is the most congested City in the UK outside of London I think. This despite it apparently being a cycling city and the Eurppean Green capital. The reality is though that public transport here is pretty much ran by one private company, is unreliable and expensive for the service they provide. I use the bus without any problems but I can see why people hate it.

Not sure how interesting this topic is really but I saw Pagnall make the point that people wont care about the pollution their VW might have spat out but will care about it if they can get money for it. Which is true but I think maybe people should care more and how we can encourage people to think more about it.
 
Messages
3,569
Likes
1,225
Supports
Sheffield United
Twitter
@blade1889
#2
"we don't know what to do about it? Or is it simply that to make serious changes and many industries would also lose money?"

Both those in my honest opinion. We need to see a shift towards renewable energy but this is met with such tough opposition from Joe Bloggs. It may cost more or people don't want the countryside ruined by wind farms, the coasts ruined by tidal energy machines or those oh-so-appealing house roofs ruined by solar power. Then you have the cost of installation but even when this is free (as in some solar panel schemes) most people are reluctant, and you cant force them into it!

Also some of the biggest culprits are large factories, but how do you begin to solve that problem? Id argue its nearly impossible without either them loosing money or the government finding a few spare billion from somewhere to subsidise the extra costs.

Then there cars...how do you solve that issue? Ban people from driving if its less than 5 miles? Make buses cheaper but then they're already highly unprofitable.

The changes we make currently are so superficial in the grand scheme of things like energy-efficient light bulbs or low power Hoovers but right now they're the easiest changes to implement.

It is scary and something does have to change, the whole nations mind-set has to change...maybe publicising the detriment pollution has on their own health will help, but I'm not so sure. Its a typical human mindset to acknowledge the problem, complain xyz should be done but not to do so yourself as Mr.Kippling across the road hasn't-so why should you!?

I like a lot of the greens core policies, and out of all the main parties I probably agree with their core principle the most. Its the rest that I cant get my head around.
 

Techno Natch

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,789
Likes
860
Supports
Bristol City
Thread starter #3
"we don't know what to do about it? Or is it simply that to make serious changes and many industries would also lose money?"

Both those in my honest opinion. We need to see a shift towards renewable energy but this is met with such tough opposition from Joe Bloggs. It may cost more or people don't want the countryside ruined by wind farms, the coasts ruined by tidal energy machines or those oh-so-appealing house roofs ruined by solar power. Then you have the cost of installation but even when this is free (as in some solar panel schemes) most people are reluctant, and you cant force them into it!
Ah I know, I find it so annoying when I see people complaining because wind farms ruin the countryside as I personally think they look fine. I think it's better to put them in the sea though where possible though due to the impact on inland wildlife. (I bet I find out they kill dolphins or something at some point.)

That being said it's much more preferable to fracking, while I don't buy into all the scaremongering about fracking, I do find it utterly depressing that rather than pushing forward as much renewable energy as possible we are literally going all out to suck every last bit of fossil fuel from the ground that we can, they give the speal on how it will lower energy prices but I don't buy it. From what I can tell our reserves are much to low to have a noticeable impact, it's purely a way for very rich people to suck the last bits of money they can out of the earth before it's completely ruined. So shortsighted.

Also some of the biggest culprits are large factories, but how do you begin to solve that problem? Id argue its nearly impossible without either them loosing money or the government finding a few spare billion from somewhere to subsidise the extra costs.
Yep, basically this government has very little interest in tackling this issue, either through green taxes or subsidising it themselves. I'm not sure if green taxes work or are enforceable anyway. They have cut green policies while moving towards unsustainable but highly profitable sources of energy.

That being said we apparently took more in Green taxes than ever last year: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ear...en-taxes-hit-record-high-of-44.6-billion.html

The government would actually have to take it seriously and crack down on companies, I'm not sure that they would do that, not just this Tory government but any government that actually has a chance to get in.

This source seems to suggest that Carbon taxes do work though:

http://www.carbontax.org/where-carbon-is-taxed/

That's a really long article so you can take my word for it, not sure how biased it is either but still interesting.

Australia committed to Carbon tax for two years and then repealed it a couple of years later:
"Update (January 2015): In case anyone doubted the effectiveness of taxing carbon pollution, the following graph of power plant CO2 emissions published in Australia’s Guardian shows what has happened in the year since the tax was repealed. The vertical red line is the repeal date."



But as another blog states, if the costs are passed on to consumers, which they nearly always are then it's the poor that suffer the most.

Then there cars...how do you solve that issue? Ban people from driving if its less than 5 miles? Make buses cheaper but then they're already highly unprofitable.
Well they have to make the market more competitive at the very least, I don't think that allowing private companies to run a vital public service is necessarily a great idea anyway but that's another debate. First bus in Bristol dropped prices on all their tickets, they then announced higher profits and more customers later but rose prices shortly after. No one in Bristol has any faith in them to run a proper service but they have a monopoly on the service so what can you do? The council subsidised half their bloody services it seems. They also have no problem with raising the fare due to fuel costs, but when that costs drops they don't drop fares, their reason is that they buy it in bulk months in advance and then no one mentions it again. My friend whose lived in a few cities around the UK and Europe said our service is by far the worst she has ever experienced in terms of service and price.

How can we expect people in Bristol to use the bus when a company that they have no respect for owns the market? At least if it was cheap you could forgive the poor service or if it was really good then you can justify the cost. That being said, I have no problems using the bus myself £17 for a weekly ticket and I get lots of use out of it due to working all over Bristol. I am not convinced that if the service suddenly became amazing or cost less that people would ditch their cars simply because they can't stand the idea of traveling on a bus. Some of the looks I get from people who drive when I suggest catching a coach somewhere instead of driving are a sight.

It is scary and something does have to change, the whole nations mind-set has to change...maybe publicising the detriment pollution has on their own health will help, but I'm not so sure. Its a typical human mindset to acknowledge the problem, complain xyz should be done but not to do so yourself as Mr.Kippling across the road hasn't-so why should you!?
Indeed, it needs a seismic shift in public opinion for anything to happen. I'm guilty of being a hypocrite myself mind as I love a cheap easyjet flight if I can get it but I'd happily pay more or try another route if it was affordable and possible. You have to give people incentive to make greener choices as usually they require a bit more effort and thought. Proper education would help too and making a concerted effort to push for renewable energy.
 

Red

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,540
Likes
1,108
Location
Chesterfield
Supports
Opposing the pedestrianisation of Norwich city centre!!!!
#4
Yes, I also think it's a combination of the things you mention. I also don't mind wind farms and get annoyed with nimbyism.
 

Aber gas

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,462
Likes
3,971
Location
Abergavenny
Supports
Bristol rovers
#5
Ah I know, I find it so annoying when I see people complaining because wind farms ruin the countryside as I personally think they look fine. I think it's better to put them in the sea though where possible though due to the impact on inland wildlife. (I bet I find out they kill dolphins or something at some point.)

That being said it's much more preferable to fracking, while I don't buy into all the scaremongering about fracking, I do find it utterly depressing that rather than pushing forward as much renewable energy as possible we are literally going all out to suck every last bit of fossil fuel from the ground that we can, they give the speal on how it will lower energy prices but I don't buy it. From what I can tell our reserves are much to low to have a noticeable impact, it's purely a way for very rich people to suck the last bits of money they can out of the earth before it's completely ruined. So shortsighted.



Yep, basically this government has very little interest in tackling this issue, either through green taxes or subsidising it themselves. I'm not sure if green taxes work or are enforceable anyway. They have cut green policies while moving towards unsustainable but highly profitable sources of energy.

That being said we apparently took more in Green taxes than ever last year: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ear...en-taxes-hit-record-high-of-44.6-billion.html

The government would actually have to take it seriously and crack down on companies, I'm not sure that they would do that, not just this Tory government but any government that actually has a chance to get in.

This source seems to suggest that Carbon taxes do work though:

http://www.carbontax.org/where-carbon-is-taxed/

That's a really long article so you can take my word for it, not sure how biased it is either but still interesting.

Australia committed to Carbon tax for two years and then repealed it a couple of years later:
"Update (January 2015): In case anyone doubted the effectiveness of taxing carbon pollution, the following graph of power plant CO2 emissions published in Australia’s Guardian shows what has happened in the year since the tax was repealed. The vertical red line is the repeal date."



But as another blog states, if the costs are passed on to consumers, which they nearly always are then it's the poor that suffer the most.



Well they have to make the market more competitive at the very least, I don't think that allowing private companies to run a vital public service is necessarily a great idea anyway but that's another debate. First bus in Bristol dropped prices on all their tickets, they then announced higher profits and more customers later but rose prices shortly after. No one in Bristol has any faith in them to run a proper service but they have a monopoly on the service so what can you do? The council subsidised half their bloody services it seems. They also have no problem with raising the fare due to fuel costs, but when that costs drops they don't drop fares, their reason is that they buy it in bulk months in advance and then no one mentions it again. My friend whose lived in a few cities around the UK and Europe said our service is by far the worst she has ever experienced in terms of service and price.

How can we expect people in Bristol to use the bus when a company that they have no respect for owns the market? At least if it was cheap you could forgive the poor service or if it was really good then you can justify the cost. That being said, I have no problems using the bus myself £17 for a weekly ticket and I get lots of use out of it due to working all over Bristol. I am not convinced that if the service suddenly became amazing or cost less that people would ditch their cars simply because they can't stand the idea of traveling on a bus. Some of the looks I get from people who drive when I suggest catching a coach somewhere instead of driving are a sight.



Indeed, it needs a seismic shift in public opinion for anything to happen. I'm guilty of being a hypocrite myself mind as I love a cheap easyjet flight if I can get it but I'd happily pay more or try another route if it was affordable and possible. You have to give people incentive to make greener choices as usually they require a bit more effort and thought. Proper education would help too and making a concerted effort to push for renewable energy.
I totally agree with you about the bus service in bristol. I had to use it regularly and tbh it's not pleasant or even reliable. I can see why people still drive around town even though at certain times of the day it's almost impossible. I agree with you that the council really needs to take charge of the situation and run it as a service rather than for profit but there doesn't appear to be any appetite for that currently. Do you think there could be better use made of the city train stations? It would take major investment but I think the city stations are underused in terms of commuting around bristol.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
14,935
Messages
923,451
Members
5,090
Latest member
Bordon Shot