Port Vale v 2013 FA Cup Winners

darren gregory

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After our Police enforced break we welcome a Wigan side buoyed by an unreal last 10 minutes at Chesterfield. The return of the sulk ( Craig Davies) . A Wigan side who surely boasting Grigg and Davies will be top 6 at least, difficult game in prospect and a good yardstick of where we are at. 2-2 6,723 ( 1583 Wigan )
 

leedsvaliant

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#2
After playing 8 games in 24 days, we've had 11 days of rest, so we should be much fresher. We looked out on our feet against Bradford and hence the late defeat. We should really have more points on the board that our play has warranted but as we all said at the beginning of the season, the lack of a goal poacher could really cost us. Should have been 2 up at half time to Bradford and of course were made to pay. We've got the real basis of a good side but just short in a few key areas in terms of depth.

Wigan brought on some high wage players as subs to win the game for them on Saturday which just goes to show the difference a bit of money can make to squad depth - I remember a time when Wigan were a much smaller club than the Vale. They've not started the season brilliantly but in typical Vale fashion they have had a previous result which will massively boost their confidence (why do we always seem to play teams at the wrong time?). Having said that, they must have been pretty crud to be 2-0 down in the first place and late comebacks can often mask a poor performance. They've have had a relatively poor start away from home. A bit like us they seem to have been a bit inconsistent.

We look really solid at the back which will help us to grind out a few results but I can see this one being 1-1.
 

leedsvaliant

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#3
if we can play like we did in the last 10min against chesterfield i see it being a comfy away win..we are starting to gel
But what were you like for the other 80? Great comeback but to be 2-0 down you must have been fairly poor for the rest of the game? Did the comeback mask some issues?

I think you'll be up there and I have you as my tip to win the league, just purely by the fact that your subs bench would get into most teams in this league - such is the ridiculousness of the parachute payment system. You're not likely to get a 'comfortable' away win though no matter how well you are playing as we have tightened up at the back.

It seems like you are starting to come together as a team and we are a little bit stop start at the moment. I'm always pessimistic but hopeful of a draw in this one.
 

valefan16

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#4
Bury and West Brom expected comfy wins... anyone who expects that and turns up with that attitude to VP will get a shock.

Tough game, they've had a mixed start, we've looked very good in general at Vale Park. I fancy us to nick it 2-1 after a break to recharge.
 

mozzavale

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#5
Bury and West Brom expected comfy wins... anyone who expects that and turns up with that attitude to VP will get a shock.

Tough game, they've had a mixed start, we've looked very good in general at Vale Park. I fancy us to nick it 2-1 after a break to recharge.
When did this happen?
 

Will

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#8
I'd be chuffed with a draw. The amount of money Wigan can spend is a farce, they should be made to cut their cloth accordingly.
 

leedsvaliant

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#9
You don't really believe that do you? It's a disgrace and it's only the clubs that have benefited that couldn't care less. Can you not see the issue of being rewarded for failure and the unfairness of a small club like Wigan with pretty poor historical support and size having a budget at least 5 times bigger than the rest of the league. What an idiot
 

valefan16

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#10
we actually did play well upto 2-0 we had the better chances like i said if he hit the form we did in the last 10 min port vale are in trouble..when did i say we didnt play well in the other 80 min ??? dont try and be clever :\ because now you look like a fool
If we play like we did for 90 minutes against Doncaster your in trouble... All swings and roundabouts really.

We've kept 5 clean sheets in 8 games, 1 against Burnley and kept out 16 million pounds of West Brom strike force for 120 minutes so we can compete with defending as solid as that.

It'll be a tough game and Wigan should piss the league with the crazy parachute payments system (which should stop as soon as said club ie Wigan, Wolves hits League One as you don't need it) but so far it seems they are as beatable as anyone at this level.
 

leedsvaliant

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#11
Bitter....try getting to the prem then you will have these luxorys if not stop bitching about its embarrssing thats the way it is..is it fair chelsea and city can spend all this money..no its not...sh it happens
It's not bitterness, I think Wigan have done really well for a club of their size (all be it aided by a very rich chairman), it's simply common sense. Wigan have dropped down two divisions yet are still being rewarded for it. The additional money in the Championship might not have as big an effect as there are some big clubs in there, but once you drop down to our league it makes a huge difference. It's basically giving you a huge headstart and massively reduces the competitiveness of the league.
The sooner they introduce a cap on spending the better and this financial fair play rule is a joke, hence teams with piss poor crowds are able to have huge wage bills.
 

valefan16

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#12
Wigan's premiership days are long gone so they shouldn't be gifted millions for something 3 years ago. Wolves walked the league on the finances of failure and the same applies to them. If you go down cut your cloth simple.
 

leedsvaliant

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#13
well you would agree...football is about money stop moaning and get on with it..you get rewarded for being in the premiership simple as that relegated or not...we sold all our team so we did cut our cloth...and we haven't really spent a lot of money with players we have sold..lets get real this is not all about the parachute payments...
There should be rewards for being promoted into any league higher than the one you are in I agree but it should only apply to that season, not four years later!. This is rewarding failure (twice) and basically giving you a massive head-start against the rest of the teams in the division below.

Also, you sold all your team because they didn't want to play in the championship or league 1 not because you had to - you were hardly left as paupers after so may seasons in the Premier league. You'll also find that not many teams use their money for transfer fees now, however your wage bill is at least 5 times bigger than the next club..that's where your money goes.
 

darren gregory

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Can,t say i agree with cut your cloth argument, it,s like Vale doing a Stockport and saying we can only spend what Skelmersdale are spending. End of day i went to the dump Springfield park when we won 4-0 and there were more Vale than Wigan as it is predominantly a Rugby League area. But i would love a Dave Whelan type to take over the Vale, Bournemouth are now everybodies darlings they have spent a shed load of money having been docked points for administration a few years ago. Money helps but is no guarantee, Fulham spent millions on McCormack and some unknown Greek and look at them now. Wigan are just doing what we would like to do, spend big wages on Grigg Davies etc. I have no qualms just as i have no qualms that we spend more than Crewe and Colchester it is about how you spend the money and team spirit which is why Yeovil went up a couple of years back.
 

T.A

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#15
That's different. Stockport get there money through crowds that belong in league football they don't have handouts from the league or anyone else.
 

TomPNE94

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#16
They survived in the Premier League for 8 years was it? Think of just how much money they will have earned from those years, and it isn't like they spent massively in the prem or the championship really. I hate Wigan with a passion but I don't think they are spending beyond their means at all, they're just a very rich club for League 1 after a sustained spell of success.
 

SF_

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They survived in the Premier League for 8 years was it? Think of just how much money they will have earned from those years, and it isn't like they spent massively in the prem or the championship really. I hate Wigan with a passion but I don't think they are spending beyond their means at all, they're just a very rich club for League 1 after a sustained spell of success.
Why's that?
 

leedsvaliant

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#19
My Dad tbh, he hates them and it just kind of transferred to me.

Tiny club on a par with Chorley who got lucky and just bitterness really.
It's true really...we all wish a sugar daddy would do the same for us but essentially Wigan would be getting crowds of 2-3K in League 2 / Conference if Dave Whelan had never happened.
 

NorthernSoul

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#20
The problem in itself is not the concept of parachute payments. It's the disparity in income between Premier League sides and everyone below. The gulf in revenue is ridiculous and a disgrace but no one in charge of English football has the guts to challenge this monopoly. The Premier League sides take far too much of the Sky TV money and don't give anywhere near enough to lower league sides.

What is it for this season, 70m basic for every Premier League side, 10m basic for every Championship side. Say for example the outgoings of a team getting relegated is 60m and they make a profit of 10m, they're spending within their means and cutting the cloth accordingly as is the expression used by a few on here. Without any form of parachute payment how in the space of about 8 weeks can a team be expected to cut their expenditure down from 60m to 10m? It's just not feasible, without parachute payment, pretty much every side to get relegated would go straight into Administration. If a Premier League side was getting 50m basic and a Championship side 30m basic etc then there would be no need whatsoever for parachute payments.

Also it takes time for a club to realistically be able to trim their expenditure to lower league levels minus parachute payments, that's why it's spread over 4 years. Peoples livelihoods are at risk when budgets are trimmed and it's the smaller none playing staff that suffer the most.

Wigan made a profit in the last 3 Premier League seasons in a row and regularly sold young players on for big profit to be a self sustainable model. We have made a profit in the last 2 seasons despite being in the Championship. We're on course to make a profit again this season in League One, we're a very well run club. We sold about 8m worth of players this Summer and reinvested 4m of that. We have halved the wage bill this Summer as we ensure we are spending within financial fair play and being self sustaining. We've signed a lot of talented youngsters capabale of playing at a higher level, which we can sell on for big fees, once parachute payments run out.

But we've been like that prior to our Premier League days, we sold Roy Carroll to Manchester United for 2.5m in 2001 and that was reinvested in the signings of Lee McCulloch, Nathan Ellington and Jason Roberts. We had one of the smallest wage budgets in the Championship the season we went up, we built our success on youth players like Leighton Baines, bargains like Bullard for 200k and a number of shrewd free transfers. Yet you have clubs like Blackburn, Derby, Middlesbrough, QPR, Fulham etc spending 5/6m+ on players, some 10m+ and spending well over their means. Yet we're always perceived as the main protagonists.
 

Will

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#21
The problem in itself is not the concept of parachute payments. It's the disparity in income between Premier League sides and everyone below. The gulf in revenue is ridiculous and a disgrace but no one in charge of English football has the guts to challenge this monopoly. The Premier League sides take far too much of the Sky TV money and don't give anywhere near enough to lower league sides.

What is it for this season, 70m basic for every Premier League side, 10m basic for every Championship side. Say for example the outgoings of a team getting relegated is 60m and they make a profit of 10m, they're spending within their means and cutting the cloth accordingly as is the expression used by a few on here. Without any form of parachute payment how in the space of about 8 weeks can a team be expected to cut their expenditure down from 60m to 10m? It's just not feasible, without parachute payment, pretty much every side to get relegated would go straight into Administration. If a Premier League side was getting 50m basic and a Championship side 30m basic etc then there would be no need whatsoever for parachute payments.

Also it takes time for a club to realistically be able to trim their expenditure to lower league levels minus parachute payments, that's why it's spread over 4 years. Peoples livelihoods are at risk when budgets are trimmed and it's the smaller none playing staff that suffer the most.

Wigan made a profit in the last 3 Premier League seasons in a row and regularly sold young players on for big profit to be a self sustainable model. We have made a profit in the last 2 seasons despite being in the Championship. We're on course to make a profit again this season in League One, we're a very well run club. We sold about 8m worth of players this Summer and reinvested 4m of that. We have halved the wage bill this Summer as we ensure we are spending within financial fair play and being self sustaining. We've signed a lot of talented youngsters capabale of playing at a higher level, which we can sell on for big fees, once parachute payments run out.

But we've been like that prior to our Premier League days, we sold Roy Carroll to Manchester United for 2.5m in 2001 and that was reinvested in the signings of Lee McCulloch, Nathan Ellington and Jason Roberts. We had one of the smallest wage budgets in the Championship the season we went up, we built our success on youth players like Leighton Baines, bargains like Bullard for 200k and a number of shrewd free transfers. Yet you have clubs like Blackburn, Derby, Middlesbrough, QPR, Fulham etc spending 5/6m+ on players, some 10m+ and spending well over their means. Yet we're always perceived as the main protagonists.
My gripe isn't with parachute payments themselves, it's with the fact that 3/4 years after being relegated clubs are still being given large amounts of money. As you say, the first year after being relegated, you're still going to be laden with players on huge contracts. Parachute payments are needed as a stop gap until these players can be moved on. Surely though, after 2 years of championship football, any players on unsustainable contracts could have been shipped out? Or maybe pride gets in the way of selling them for a lesser fee?

My point is that after year 2 there is no need whatsoever for parachute payments, especially in league 1 where I'd guess the average wage is about 3k a week.

It's not wigans fault, but it's giving you a massive advantage (unfairly) over the rest of the league.
 

darren gregory

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Onto the game itself ? Hopefully Foley will be fit and if so i,d expect him in for McCourt, other than that i,d go the usual side at the moment. Need 4 points from this and Millwall in the next few days to set us up for Pope and then Fleetwood away. Any prediction on away support from Wigan fans? Got be 1500 + surely?
 

Saddlerrad

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Have you deleted posts because I only read Vale v Wigan posts? Are you saying that people can't comment if they aren't Vale or Wigan fans?!
No, posts have been deleted because they were predominantly just trolling each other and arguing about stuff that clutters the thread. This is Port Vale vs Wigan - the matchday thread for this Saturday. Everything else is an irrelevance, especially when it's mostly just bait for Dion.
 
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Onto the game itself ? Hopefully Foley will be fit and if so i,d expect him in for McCourt, other than that i,d go the usual side at the moment. Need 4 points from this and Millwall in the next few days to set us up for Pope and then Fleetwood away. Any prediction on away support from Wigan fans? Got be 1500 + surely?
prob 2000-2500
 

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