The Labour Thread

[Alty]

"We sounded anti business and anti aspiration".

Just fuck off and join the Tories. Seriously, what is the point becoming a Labour politician to say things like that? It's a waste of life.

 

[HertsWolf]

I find he always struggles when quizzed about private involvement in the NHS though. His claims that the evil Tories are determined to undermine the principles of the NHS doesn't really marry with the fact that he was all for private firms coming in when he was in Government.

To be fair, this is going to cause problems for many senior Labour politicians. Much of the last Labour regime looked like ToryLite and Miliband managed to say "we aren't like the shit we used to be" but failed to say what kind of shit they would look like in the future. The result is a party that looks a lot like the pre-2010 LibDems but without the strong jawlines.
Labour is increasingly handicapped by the fact that 56.4% of the votes in the General Election were cast for the "What's In It For Me?" party of one colour or another. That percentage is probably only going to increase, so Labour need to decide what they stand for fairly quickly.

 

[mnb089mnb]

Labour leadership battle isn't looking great is it?

 

[HertsWolf]

"We sounded anti business and anti aspiration".

Just fuck off and join the Tories. Seriously, what is the point becoming a Labour politician to say things like that? It's a waste of life.

That's a bit unfair. Most jobs and most wealth continue to be created by the private sector. It is (probably) possible for Labour to be supportive of business and aspirations. Do you really think the party of aspiration should simply be the Tories? Surely not.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

"We sounded anti business and anti aspiration".

Just fuck off and join the Tories. Seriously, what is the point becoming a Labour politician to say things like that? It's a waste of life.

What's wrong with saying that? It's true. That is the perception that Labour gave off and probably why they did so poorly, but that doesn't mean she thinks it's true of them.

 

[Alty]

What's wrong with saying that? It's true. That is the perception that Labour gave off and probably why they did so poorly, but that doesn't mean she thinks it's true of them.

It's a facile answer to a very complex set of problems the Labour Party faces. I don't accept that returning to Blairism would deliver victory. I can't take seriously the idea that Labour's problems in the North vs UKIP and in Scotland vs the SNP can be attributed to being too left-wing. Maybe in some marginals in the South of England, yeah. But anyone thinking a scramble back to the centre is an easy solution is kidding themself.

And anyway, is victory all that matters now? What's the point winning if it involves abandoning all your principles? Inequality got worse under the last Labour Government. It became acceptable, even fashionable, to sneer at working class people. Neoliberal economics fused with a particularly depressing brand of identity politics did nothing for the people Labour purports to represent.

 

[The Paranoid Pineapple]

The depressing brand of identity politics that saw rights and protections for marginalised groups of people greatly extended? Dreadful! "Inequality got worse" also seems a bit of a sweeping statement . I mean, maybe using some metrics, but I think they did do some (admittedly not enough) genuinely progressive things in government even if they did remain far too wedded to neoliberal economics.

I think Labour may need to make something of an effort to appeal more to middle income earners but I don't really see why it need be at the expense of some fairly sound left wing policy ideas. I'm definitely inclined to agree that the "anti aspiration/anti business" stuff is a load of old tosh - I don't think their general election pitch was either of those things. Miliband's stance on issues such as tax avoidance and zero hour contracts wasn't anti-business, merely pro-fairness and anti-exploitation. Think most of the electorate would genuinely agree with that.

 

[Ellis]

Shit country we live in if people genuinely believe wanting to regulate zero hour contracts and wanting to crack down on tax avoidance is seen as being anti business or anti aspirational.

 

[Pliny Harris]

Shit country we live in if people genuinely believe wanting to regulate zero hour contracts and wanting to crack down on tax avoidance is seen as being anti business or anti aspirational.

It's also bleak as fuck that aspiration in political terms means the desire to be earning more than you currently do. I'm walking about right now with the aim to become financially comfortable while making the world around me a bit better. Strive to survive causing least suffering possible is the aspiration wot drives me.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Shit country we live in if people genuinely believe wanting to regulate zero hour contracts and wanting to crack down on tax avoidance is seen as being anti business or anti aspirational.

I doubt it was ever framed that way. The plan to raise the minimum wage got a lot more coverage.

 

[silkyman]

Ah. Democracy.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politic...re-trying-make-it-impossible-labour-win-again

 

[Ellis]

I doubt it was ever framed that way. The plan to raise the minimum wage got a lot more coverage.

True enough and thats the problem Labour had is they couldn't combat it.

The Tories have proposed minimum wage raises to £7 by 2015.
Labour proposed an £8 minimum wage by 2020.

For all intents and purposes they've almost identikit policies just one is spread over the life of parliament. Unfortunately Labour and Miliband were too weak to respond to the attack of 'anti business' in a coherent way.

 

[Pliny Harris]

Jeremy Corbyn standing for Labour leader now. All the best to the big man.

 

[Red]

Jeremy Corbyn standing for Labour leader now. All the best to the big man.

Yeah, hopefully he will get enough support

 

[Dave-Vale]

Jeremy Corbyn or nothing.

He's a Labour leader I would vote for. Seems to be stirring up a lot of support on social media platforms.

Seems to be the only one who isn't Blue Labour and is in touch with true Labour values.

Some of his ideas are very much similar to the Greens.

 

[Pliny Harris]

I may be far gone on this stuff, but Labour are screwing themselves on their assessment of the party's failures this past term. I recognise that elections are usually won by the party taking the centre ground, but the long-term Follow the Leader they've been playing with the Tories will only wind them into more trouble. Miliband was being diagnosed as too left-wing when some of his key policies were matched by the Tories, such as his vow of NHS spending. Personally I'm not sure how closer they can move towards the Tory party—they've already been engulfed by them—and how a Labour party that's indistinct as possible will suddenly stand out. Liz Kendall. Just wow. Labourites as right-wing as her only seem to exist at the very top of the party. Pro-business this, aspiration that. For as long as austerity exists, and it'll exist as long as possible as a front for ideological cuts and manipulation, giving as little as possible to as few people as possible to maintain the Tory majority, Labour plan to simply draw out the cuts longer, so they aren't as deep. You can't blame anyone who thinks that way, to just want them as deep and as quick as possible in order to get it finished with. In fact unless I'm mistaken, Labour seem to want to set out their stall in a similar place to the Lib Dems in the recent general election: in the tiny space between the two main parties, which of course went down a treat with Nick Clegg's party losing their deposits in much of the places that they weren't feasibly contesting. And I'm still waiting for my pollyannaish Labourite mates to justify these boring Tory-lite specimens that lead their party, when they think in different, out-of-touch ways to most of their potential voters. The standees who aren't called Jeremy Corbyn are seriously heading for a trip by trying to make Labour more indistinct than ever, and their lack of big names/personalities will present whoever wins the leader election with a tough uphill climb for popularity.

Absolutely nothing for it but to go for Corbyn. His Old Labour standings plus age will stop many from listening to him, and if only we had a younger generation of Labour representatives who stood for similar things, and presented them in an unambiguous, accessible way (more politicians should be as straight-talking as Farage although they should stop and likeness right there), and wrote the political narrative rather than adopting the enemy's, then the true heart of Labour will receive its deserved sympathy again.

edit: couple of ham-fisted sentences in there. TL;DR: I can't see how Corbyn would be any worse for his party than any of the other front runners, and I much prefer his integrity to boot.

 

[Veggie Legs]

Does Jeremy Corbyn actually have a chance of becoming leader? From what I've heard, he sounds like the kind of Labour leader that I'd like, but I assume that means he has no chance being elected.

 

[Dave-Vale]

He seems to be making lots of noise on Facebook/Twitter. Other members of the party seem to be giving him their backing.

 

[SUTSS]

Labour will never win being led by someone from the hard left like Corbyn. The best option would be to go for a soft left leader like Burnham.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

It's all in the framing, which Labour were terrible at. The reason Labour wanted to control energy prices is probably because energy costs are one of the biggest expenditures that manufacturers have to deal with, and reducing those costs was probably the only way that Labour could convince manufacturers to stick around after they'd raised the minimum wage, which could theoretically lead to lower energy prices for all, no loss in jobs, and more money in everyone's pockets (except the energy giants). But instead of linking the two Labour just peddled them like they were random pro-working class policies that to the average person look anti-business and anti-growth.

 

[Dave-Vale]

Corbyn seems confident that he's just 5 votes short.

I reckon with a leader like this a lot of people that didn't vote at all would vote Labour. I know people who wanted to vote Labour but couldn't due to how Tory-Lite they've been for far too long.

Will be very interesting if Corbyn wins leadership.

 

[Dave-Vale]

3 short now. 10 minutes to go.

Pretty confident he will be able to run.

 

[Tilbury]

And he got it. This is great news, actually makes Labour potentially relevant for me personally again. Would like Stella Creasy to get deputy as well.
I've also got a vote in this thru my union too.

 

[Pliny Harris]

Made my day to pick up the phone at lunchtime and see that surprise news. I've now paid my £3 forward to lend weight to Corbyn's campaign. He'll at least do better than Cooper when push comes to shove that's for true.

 

[Aber gas]

It's a fucker because cooper has got more chance of being in charge , but corbyn is who I want in charge . There is a real decision to be made on the left .

 

[Alty]

Corbyn seems confident that he's just 5 votes short.

I reckon with a leader like this a lot of people that didn't vote at all would vote Labour. I know people who wanted to vote Labour but couldn't due to how Tory-Lite they've been for far too long.

Will be very interesting if Corbyn wins leadership.

Labour's inability to mobilise the most left-wing section of its base isn't the problem though, is it?

And he has no chance of winning. His role in this process is really to try and drag the others a bit leftwards.

I also note that his woeful lack of understanding of Northern Ireland hasn't stopped him pontificating about the place on a regular basis. Reminiscent of John McDonnell on that one. Bobby Sands Day parties anyone? No?

 

[Stevencc]

Corbyn is my local MP, he's held in very high regard around here and his seat is untouchable. I think he was the MP to claim the lowest expenses in the whole country at the last count. He's excellent. I'm not sure he's got much of a chance though, unfortunately.

 

[Aber gas]

Labour's inability to mobilise the most left-wing section of its base isn't the problem though, is it?

And he has no chance of winning. His role in this process is really to try and drag the others a bit leftwards.

I also note that his woeful lack of understanding of Northern Ireland hasn't stopped him pontificating about the place on a regular basis. Reminiscent of John McDonnell on that one. Bobby Sands Day parties anyone? No?

well he was heavily criticised for engaging with Gerry Adams . The queen has recently met adams so you could argue he was ahead of his time . His opinion about ending british rule doesn't necessarily show a lack of understanding even if I don't agree with him .

 

[Alty]

well he was heavily criticised for engaging with Gerry Adams . The queen has recently met adams so you could argue he was ahead of his time . His opinion about ending british rule doesn't necessarily show a lack of understanding even if I don't agree with him .

It's not about just meeting them. It's about actively supporting them. Including at times when they were deliberately murdering civilians. And all in order to achieve an end that involves completely overriding people's right to self-determination.

He clearly doesn't know what he's talking about.

 

[Aber gas]

It's not about just meeting them. It's about actively supporting them. Including at times when they were deliberately murdering civilians. And all in order to achieve an end that involves completely overriding people's right to self-determination.

He clearly doesn't know what he's talking about.

Gerry Adams and his other ira cohorts as well as loyalist thugs are accepted into mainstream politics now , with all the state visits and vip status that comes with it . A murderer is still a murderer even after the event so it could be argued that corbyn was just doing what politicians are doing in recent times but in a different political climate . That's brave if misguided .