The lack of Black managers/Coaches question

BigDaveCUFC

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Is it then in your view a bias towards white to black former players or do you think it is most Black players seek a future elsewhere when ending their days playing or do you think its just the ability in the coaching/management role?

Or do you think its just something blown out of proportion?
 

silkyman

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#2
I've thought for a while that it's a combination of factors. One of the biggest being the managerial merry-go-round. Clubs often go for the tried and tested manager, even if he's been shit at other clubs. How many of the managerial appointments over the past year have been new, rookie managers straight out of playing?

From a point of having very few active black managers and when clubs tend to go for people who have managed before, there are few opportunities. Not because of racism*, but because it's chicken and egg.

*It could stem from racism, as while I don't think modern boardrooms are hives of BNP voting dinosaurs, there may have been issues in the past which have prevented older players from getting onto the merry go round in the first place.
 

LordJord

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#3
Agree with the point above with regards to the same managers being used. Some managers consistently fail but continue to get jobs. In my opinion Keith Curle is quite fortunate to get another job based upon fans opinions of his performances with previous clubs.

On some occasions it does seem odd though, someone like Eddie Newton (I think thats his name) at Chelsea appears to have great pedigree, but says he cant get a chance anywhere. Are his sights set to high? Who knows.

Not sure what the correct answer is, but I just cant see the majority of football chairman not hiring a coach because of his skin colour, especially when there are so many black players playing the game now.
 
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Exeter CIty
#4
There are a few things to consider of course:

1) How many qualified black coaches are there?
2) How many are applying for jobs and are they under-represented as a result? (e.g. if 5% of applicants are black and 10% of managers are black, the "problem" clearly doesn't exist)
3) The "type" of player and whether they are "manager material"? You can often spot who will be a decent manager a mile off - or rather, who will be a terrible manager!

Paul Ince is someone who complains of not getting a fair deal because he is black. No, it's because you've had several cracks at management and been found wanting. Ian Wright complains, but oh, hang on a second, he refused the opportunity to fast track his coaching badges in order to qualify as a manager sooner.

I don't think there is a particular issue as regards black managers in the game.
 

Richard Cranium

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#5
The topic makes me laugh. Paul Ince is a helmet anyway.

It's like the little club they have for Black footballers, what the fuck is that all about? If a black manager is the best applicant when applying for a job then I don't see any club appointing a different guy just because the other guy is black.
 

BigDaveCUFC

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Some good points really, I also do not think its a racism problem, but i also am never too sure as to what counter argument you can make for it, its the old typical PC argument where they have advantage on most arguments before you even begin.

if i was being honest is i cannot think of many ex-Carlisle Black players i'd consider management type, maybe Gary Bennett who we had in 1995 i could have seen going into coaching or else Chris Billy. Most of our black popular players were more flair style players and i don't know why but i've always took it the tough, determined, rugged captin type players seem to end up managers.
 
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Exeter CIty
#8
Dave - Gary Bennett was briefly our assistant manager in the fateful 02/03 season under Neil McNab. Can't really comment too much on his credentials, mind, as that whole season was a car crash.
 
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#9
Black managers are like the black pundits....

If they are shite and lose their job they shout "racism" instead of "shitism"

Carlisle, Collymore, Crooks etc have all payed the race card..IMO..to raise their media profile.

So..Davey lad..NO..Football is not racist, it is probably the main UK sport (along with athletics) that judges purely on performance.

In my opinion like
 

Richard Cranium

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#10
Can you imagine the uproar had there been a white players association created by the likes of Carlisle, football is not racist, Paul Ince for example has had 6 managerial jobs now. Funny how none have lasted 2 years, jesus he is shit.
 

Murphy

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#11
I think that there probably should be more black managers and coaches within the game, but I don't agree with the Rooney Rule as I think it demeans the process of choosing a manager - plus I imagine a lot of black and ethnic minority candidates might not find it flattering if they feel as though they're in the application process just to fill a quota.
 

Boz

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#12
I'm sympathetic to the Rooney rule, suspect that coaches/managers from ethnic minority backgrounds won't be too bothered about why they get the chance, if once interviewed, they prove to be the best candidate and get a job offer. Got to be in it to win it etc...

Paul Ince and John Barnes for different reasons have set back the cause of ethnic minority managers by light years though.
 
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#13
I make it that Chris Powell, Keith Curle, Fabio Liverani, and Chris Hughton are the only black managers in the Football League. Now, this makes up around 4.3% of managers in the Football League. By contrast, black players make up around 25% of the Football League. Obvious disparity.

The market dictates that players will be recruited and signed based on their level of ability, and statistically speaking in terms of employment v ability black players are fairly represented. This however does not translate into management. The ability and potential success of a manager is far harder to determine. Most managers historically are white former footballers, football clubs tend to stick with the status quo, without any obvious amazing black managers about, football clubs have no pressures to break from their conservatism.
 

Madejski

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#14
I make it that Chris Powell, Keith Curle, Fabio Liverani, and Chris Hughton are the only black managers in the Football League. Now, this makes up around 4.3% of managers in the Football League. By contrast, black players make up around 25% of the Football League. Obvious disparity.

The market dictates that players will be recruited and signed based on their level of ability, and statistically speaking in terms of employment v ability black players are fairly represented. This however does not translate into management. The ability and potential success of a manager is far harder to determine. Most managers historically are white former footballers, football clubs tend to stick with the status quo, without any obvious amazing black managers about, football clubs have no pressures to break from their conservatism.
Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink?

I believe that only 7% of UEFA Pro License holders in England are black though. So despite a lot of players, far less are interested in going into coaching/management.

There is still a disparity between qualifications and then getting into employment, but the gap isn't as large as people make out. A couple more appointments and it would be about right.

I do agree that is largely down to conservatism. Failed managers, even at a high level will still get jobs (Peter Taylor, Dean Saunders etc) - hopefully that changes soon. Need more managers like Eddie Howe, Brendan Rodgers etc doing well at a young age to show clubs that you don't always need managers with decades of managerial experience, even if it was poor.
 
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#16
Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink got the job at Burton Albion because he was the right man for the job. His race had nothing to do with it.
That's from JFH himself and that's how it should be.
 

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