The perils of Financial Fair Play

MrGloverLover

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Interesting statement from our chairman on our current plight and the implications of the new finance rules. The future looks even bleaker than the present:

http://www.ytfc.net/news/article/chairmans-message-to-supporters-2343971.aspx

Quite a barbed comment about Gary Johnson as well:
"This increase provided Gary with the 14th biggest player budget in League One, which, if it had been used effectively, would have at least kept the Glovers in League One for next season."

We won't be the only club going through this, something is going to have to give
 

D B Disco

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#2
No disrespect to Yeovil.........but they have been punching above their weight since getting to League one and even more so in the Championship.

With or without financial fair play, I think it was only ever going to be a matter of time before they dropped to a more natural level.

Fantastic what they have done the past few years though!
 

BCFC Jordan

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#3
FFP is a load of rubbish anyway. Parts of it makes sense, but it's just going to allow the same clubs to dominate. If a club has an owner with the money to spend, he should be allowed to do so, not limited by FFP. This will especially be felt in the Premier League and other elite leagues.

Having said that, the Yeovil chairman made the wrong decision in sacking GJ (at least if the alternative was his assistant and the man that he replaced) and might not be so miserable right now had he kept GJ. I know his time was pretty much up there, but you'd have stood more chance than what is there at the minute. In my opinion, of course.
 

Indian Dan

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#4
It was the Yeovil chairman who, during your short stay in the Championship, voted against a bigger slice of the pie for L1 and L2 clubs. So IMO bollocks to you - you reap what you sow.

As for FFP in general I agree with Mr Disco - if you have a wealthy owner then good luck.

It's already majorly skewed the Bundesliga with not one club able to compete with Bayern Munich. It's killing dreams, which is just about the only thing the vast majority of us have left
 
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#5
Many sides underestimate the strength of League One upon their relegation from the Championship. Since the collapse of ITV Digital, history tells us that small sides relegated from the Championship who lack a benefactor and/or gates of at least 8000 end up falling to League Two within a few seasons.

Ourselves, Rotherham, Walsall, Gillingham, Scunthorpe, Stockport, and Southend have all fell from the second to fourth tiers in three seasons or fewer. Oxford and Bury have done so in the past too with Bradford, Luton and Portsmouth falling foul of financial matters. That's a lot of clubs and even clubs like Colchester have ended up in decline as they failed to make a quick return to the Championship. Even big clubs can struggle after relegation down to here!

Yeovil have obviously underestimated the strength of the division given they had the core of their promotion winning side ripped up and the players that were on Championship wages were sold or released. It was a big ask for them to stay in the division given the significant turnover of players let alone compete for promotion. Plus they squandered it on absolute crap like Ajay Leitch-Smith who they then go to play out of position!

However I agree with Indian Dan, Fry can't cry poverty, he made his bed now he has to lie in those lost revenues.
 

Heisenberg20

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#6
Many sides underestimate the strength of League One upon their relegation from the Championship. Since the collapse of ITV Digital, history tells us that small sides relegated from the Championship who lack a benefactor and/or gates of at least 8000 end up falling to League Two within a few seasons.

Ourselves, Rotherham, Walsall, Gillingham, Scunthorpe, Stockport, and Southend have all fell from the second to fourth tiers in three seasons or fewer. Oxford and Bury have done so in the past too with Bradford, Luton and Portsmouth falling foul of financial matters. That's a lot of clubs and even clubs like Colchester have ended up in decline as they failed to make a quick return to the Championship. Even big clubs can struggle after relegation down to here!

Yeovil have obviously underestimated the strength of the division given they had the core of their promotion winning side ripped up and the players that were on Championship wages were sold or released. It was a big ask for them to stay in the division given the significant turnover of players let alone compete for promotion. Plus they squandered it on absolute crap like Ajay Leitch-Smith who they then go to play out of position!

However I agree with Indian Dan, Fry can't cry poverty, he made his bed now he has to lie in those lost revenues.
Couldnt agree more and we nearly fell Into that trap last season. Top 6 in this League would compete well in the Championship.
 

dedwardp

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#7
The main reason we have struggled in the past few years is because instead of spending his money on the first team, the chairman has instead diverted his funding to the academy. This was in order to pre-empty FFP and get us ahead of the curve (supposedly), and the benefits are starting to show through with the huge number of kids (homegrown ones, at that) that have populated our team this season.

In theory, the worst part of that transition is behind us now and next season our budget is set to increase again. Unfortunately, it looks as though we won't have quite held on to League One status for one more season long enough.
 

MrGloverLover

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The whole of John Fry's statement can be summed up in one sentence. "It's everyone else's fault but mine"
We scrapped our reserves in 2009 and our youth system in 2013. Now he says we need homegrown players?! Most of our fans will tell you the board have sat on their hands for too many years now and need to go. Root and branch changes are required but sadly I just can't see it happening.

After 10 years in League 1 we should be able to compete at that level. It seems that we're going the way of other West Country teams such as Bristol Rovers, Torquay and Cheltenham
 

Alex_BCFC

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#9
Yeovil have had an amazing few years. I still think sacking GJ was short-sighted and they would have more points now I reckon.

Before 2001 they had never been in the football league?!
 
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#10
Yeovil have had an amazing few years. I still think sacking GJ was short-sighted and they would have more points now I reckon.

Before 2001 they had never been in the football league?!
They've always come across as a short-termist club, scrapping youth facilities just to sign an extra couple of experienced players (not because EPPP made it pointless) is nothing short of suicide because if it all goes tits up at your club you have to turn to youth.

They went up in 2003, their success is admirable but they're only experiencing what happened to us small clubs who graced the Championship years ago. We had our squad ripped up and had to cut budgets and replace with lower ability players, did the Yeovil board seriously think they could compete with the Championship big boys financially and that they could easily go back up a division upon relegation last year? £28 to watch a poor side in League One is nothing short of shambolic, you'd think with their non-league history they'd be one of the last clubs to charge a price of that magnitude for third division football.

I think they'll be like Grimsby were when they suffered successive relegations and struggle in League Two but finish well clear of a relegation scrap. But I don't expect to see them in League One for a very long time.
 

MrGloverLover

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After 2 relegations in 119 years we now have 2 in 2 years. It'll only get worse as apparently Skiverton & Way are due to stay as the management team on a reduced budget that will be considered low for a League 2 club.
 

AmbiguousBon

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#12
They've always come across as a short-termist club, scrapping youth facilities just to sign an extra couple of experienced players (not because EPPP made it pointless) is nothing short of suicide because if it all goes tits up at your club you have to turn to youth.

They went up in 2003, their success is admirable but they're only experiencing what happened to us small clubs who graced the Championship years ago. We had our squad ripped up and had to cut budgets and replace with lower ability players, did the Yeovil board seriously think they could compete with the Championship big boys financially and that they could easily go back up a division upon relegation last year? £28 to watch a poor side in League One is nothing short of shambolic, you'd think with their non-league history they'd be one of the last clubs to charge a price of that magnitude for third division football.

I think they'll be like Grimsby were when they suffered successive relegations and struggle in League Two but finish well clear of a relegation scrap. But I don't expect to see them in League One for a very long time.
I think most Yeovil fans completely agree with this, and the board have been fortunate that on field success over the last few years has masked poor off field decisions and chronic under investment in facilities/matchday experience. It's all coming to a head now though, and without any sort of youth programme to fall back on after the emergency loans stop next season, there are genuine fears we could fall back to non-league in the near future.

After 2 relegations in 119 years we now have 2 in 2 years. It'll only get worse as apparently Skiverton & Way are due to stay as the management team on a reduced budget that will be considered low for a League 2 club.
Our average attendance this season is about 4300 - comparable with plenty of lower League 1 teams, I don't understand why we will suddenly be poorer then most of League 2...
 
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AmbiguousBon

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#13
It was the Yeovil chairman who, during your short stay in the Championship, voted against a bigger slice of the pie for L1 and L2 clubs. So IMO bollocks to you - you reap what you sow.

As for FFP in general I agree with Mr Disco - if you have a wealthy owner then good luck.

It's already majorly skewed the Bundesliga with not one club able to compete with Bayern Munich. It's killing dreams, which is just about the only thing the vast majority of us have left
I think it wins the prize for the very shortest of short-sighted decisions.
 

Techno Natch

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#14
Our average attendance this season is about 4300 - comparable with plenty of lower League 1 teams, I don't understand why we will suddenly be poorer then most of League 2...
Is there a year by year record for your average attendance? I couldn't find one I'm just interested in how it's grown since the non league days.
 

Ciderup

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#15
My understanding of the decision to scrap the reserves , U21's and centre of excellence was driven by Gary J but I stand to be corrected.
Much as I love the bloke for what he did for City, that was a dreadful decision and maybe highlights where the power was at Huish park? Your chairman was so accommodating for GJ that he agreed to the formers wishes. What a terrible choice and one I think Yeovil will regret post relegation with all due respect to them. It doesn't just cut the supply of young players, it totally nullifies the chances of uncovering a gem that can be sold on at a vast profit. Very short term-ist (if that's a word).
Time for a total rethink in Somerset methinks as the present plan is surely unsustainable as a league club?
 

AmbiguousBon

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#17
My understanding of the decision to scrap the reserves , U21's and centre of excellence was driven by Gary J but I stand to be corrected.
Much as I love the bloke for what he did for City, that was a dreadful decision and maybe highlights where the power was at Huish park? Your chairman was so accommodating for GJ that he agreed to the formers wishes. What a terrible choice and one I think Yeovil will regret post relegation with all due respect to them. It doesn't just cut the supply of young players, it totally nullifies the chances of uncovering a gem that can be sold on at a vast profit. Very short term-ist (if that's a word).
Time for a total rethink in Somerset methinks as the present plan is surely unsustainable as a league club?
Yep, from what I remember when the EPPP came into effect the chairman decided it wasn't worthwhile continuing the academy as the funding didn't cover costs and the return was much less on any players sold on, so GJ was offered the choice between continuing with the youth setup, or for that money to be used to fund the squad. So he made the decision I suspect any manager (bar Dario Gradi) would have made given the current unstable environment and cashed in, which to be fair paid off in the short term, but will come back to bite us very firmly in the arse long term.
 

Ciderup

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#18
Yep, from what I remember when the EPPP came into effect the chairman decided it wasn't worthwhile continuing the academy as the funding didn't cover costs and the return was much less on any players sold on, so GJ was offered the choice between continuing with the youth setup, or for that money to be used to fund the squad. So he made the decision I suspect any manager (bar Dario Gradi) would have made given the current unstable environment and cashed in, which to be fair paid off in the short term, but will come back to bite us very firmly in the arse long term.
I appreciate, with hindsight, it's very easy to criticise and say it has failed but what I don't get is how your Chairman thought that plan could ever be sustainable at what is, with all due respect, a small club?
Looking back, it's such a bad choice. Are you planning a team full of local youth players from the likes of ourselves, Cardiff and Swindon on loan?
 

GloverGing

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#19
I appreciate, with hindsight, it's very easy to criticise and say it has failed but what I don't get is how your Chairman thought that plan could ever be sustainable at what is, with all due respect, a small club?
Looking back, it's such a bad choice. Are you planning a team full of local youth players from the likes of ourselves, Cardiff and Swindon on loan?
I think the plan is to sweep up young players who don't make it at bigger clubs' academies, and hope we unearth a few gems like we did with Ayling and Upson.
 

Ciderup

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I think the plan is to sweep up young players who don't make it at bigger clubs' academies, and hope we unearth a few gems like we did with Ayling and Upson.
The same as the rest of the football league then? If you've got any more like Ayling, please send them up the A37, he's mint!
 

Cashis

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#22
My understanding of the decision to scrap the reserves , U21's and centre of excellence was driven by Gary J but I stand to be corrected.
Much as I love the bloke for what he did for City, that was a dreadful decision and maybe highlights where the power was at Huish park? Your chairman was so accommodating for GJ that he agreed to the formers wishes. What a terrible choice and one I think Yeovil will regret post relegation with all due respect to them. It doesn't just cut the supply of young players, it totally nullifies the chances of uncovering a gem that can be sold on at a vast profit. Very short term-ist (if that's a word).
Time for a total rethink in Somerset methinks as the present plan is surely unsustainable as a league club?
Isn't the EPPP effectively doing that anyway?
 
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#23
Yep, from what I remember when the EPPP came into effect the chairman decided it wasn't worthwhile continuing the academy as the funding didn't cover costs and the return was much less on any players sold on, so GJ was offered the choice between continuing with the youth setup, or for that money to be used to fund the squad. So he made the decision I suspect any manager (bar Dario Gradi) would have made given the current unstable environment and cashed in, which to be fair paid off in the short term, but will come back to bite us very firmly in the arse long term.
If you're going to scrap the academy, at the very least that money should have been used to upgrade and improve your scouting system (or put one in place if you don't have one) rather than throwing the saved money at a few more players.
 

The Terminator

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#27
Reading about the youth team being scrapped is worrying, because it screws you up badly long term.

Now I know our youth system isn't as good as say Crewes, but in the last ten years we've managed to unearth and sell Gabby Zakuani and last season Moses Odubajo for over £1million each. In 2001 we sold a certain Nicky Shorey to Reading and made a decent amount in sell on clauses when Aston Villa bought him in 2008.

Although some players never turn out to be as good as those, we've managed to get the likes of Brian Saah, Glen Morris & Jason Demetriou (Cyprus International now!) through our youth system and they've all been decent enough League One players at some point, albeit not ones you can sell for big money.

This season has seen us throw more youngsters into our first team when we had all those injuries.

Next season, our former manager Martin Ling will see his son Sam Ling sign for us professionally along with at least 2 others from our youth team. Our owners have money, but badly want to keep investing in our youth setup as well as its so so big to a long term future of a club.

Didn't Nathan Smith and Luke Ayling come through the ranks at Yeovil? IMO Fry should get the youth setup back and start over, a youth system IMO is so so important to smaller clubs. So many gems to uncover. Joe Hart is a fine example.
 

Ciderup

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#28
Ayling came through the ranks at Arsenal bud. He went to Yeovil after they released him.
I totally agree with every word though.
Yeovil's problem, now, is they have an even smaller budget and will need to spend to get their youth system up and running again.
 

MrGloverLover

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We've only truly had 3 players come through the ranks and be established first teamers in the last 15 years but it would be nice to have a youth system again.

The truth is we'll rely on free agents and loanees again next season. I imagine a few like Kieffer Moore will come on board as well as they're cheap.
 

GloverGing

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#30
Reading about the youth team being scrapped is worrying, because it screws you up badly long term.

Now I know our youth system isn't as good as say Crewes, but in the last ten years we've managed to unearth and sell Gabby Zakuani and last season Moses Odubajo for over £1million each. In 2001 we sold a certain Nicky Shorey to Reading and made a decent amount in sell on clauses when Aston Villa bought him in 2008.

Although some players never turn out to be as good as those, we've managed to get the likes of Brian Saah, Glen Morris & Jason Demetriou (Cyprus International now!) through our youth system and they've all been decent enough League One players at some point, albeit not ones you can sell for big money.

This season has seen us throw more youngsters into our first team when we had all those injuries.

Next season, our former manager Martin Ling will see his son Sam Ling sign for us professionally along with at least 2 others from our youth team. Our owners have money, but badly want to keep investing in our youth setup as well as its so so big to a long term future of a club.

Didn't Nathan Smith and Luke Ayling come through the ranks at Yeovil? IMO Fry should get the youth setup back and start over, a youth system IMO is so so important to smaller clubs. So many gems to uncover. Joe Hart is a fine example.
Ayling came through at Arsenal, we had him on loan for a season then signed on a free, we signed Nathan Smith from Potter's Bar.

In terms of players who came through our youth system whilst it was still running I can only think of Craig Alcock, Chris Weale and Andy Lindegaard, as players who had any sort of career in the football league.

I think one of our major problems is that we were/would be competing with far more established systems at Exeter, Plymouth, the Bristol Clubs and Southampton for a relatively small amount of young players.
 

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