Transgender woman put into male prison

TheMinsterman

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#2
My thoughts are, based on the actions of those who tend to front these campaigns, that if it was a female-to-male transgender criminal they'd ironically be likely using the "biological sex" argument they hate so much here to have them avoid male prison because its so brutal.

How about some campaigns to reduce male prison violence?
 

BigDaveCUFC

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#3
I'd have a lot of sympathy for her but for the fact in the article I read that she had eight previous convictions for assault and battery and my view would be...............how about trying to not causing numerous assaults on the outside and you won't need to worry about what could happen if inside.
 
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Dr Mantis Toboggan

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#4
are transgendered people really transgendered, or are they just people who haven't fallen into artificially delineated gender norms, and rather than just being 'different' (to those who subscribe to fictional notions of masculinity and femininity) are they the future?

is gender a social construct? and does that mean transgenderism is a symptom of a sick society? they aren't men stuck in a woman's body, they are simply 'people' in what is genetically a woman's body, and there is actually no such thing as being mentally a woman cause that is just one point on a spectrum?

or something

edit: think i explained that dumb. we have a basic binary of sex: m & f. and a binary of gender: m & f. so if your sex is male and u feel like a woman (gender) u r transgendered. but if our gender is just a matter of media and upbringing there is no such thing as transgendered as gender is an endless variety of different points on a massive spectrum
 

Christian Slater

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#5
are transgendered people really transgendered, or are they just people who haven't fallen into artificially delineated gender norms, and rather than just being 'different' (to those who subscribe to fictional notions of masculinity and femininity) are they the future?

is gender a social construct? and does that mean transgenderism is a symptom of a sick society? they aren't men stuck in a woman's body, they are simply 'people' in what is genetically a woman's body, and there is actually no such thing as being mentally a woman cause that is just one point on a spectrum?

or something

edit: think i explained that dumb. we have a basic binary of sex: m & f. and a binary of gender: m & f. so if your sex is male and u feel like a woman (gender) u r transgendered. but if our gender is just a matter of media and upbringing there is no such thing as transgendered as gender is an endless variety of different points on a massive spectrum
Gender is a social construct, mainly in the sense of how gender identity is influenced by society and culture. It's a big area post-structuralism investigates and there's some quality research and writing on the subject if you're interested.

As for the subject matter, I'm not fussed either way.
 

Ebeneezer Goode

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#6
It really depends what you mean by gender. If you mean a set of ideal behaviours that combine to form a gender role for the corresponding sex then yeah, it's a social construct. But if you're asking whether differences in the way men and women think and by extension behave are just something our culture has conditioned us to believe are real, then no, it isn't. The science is pretty clear on how differently our brains work, it manifests in behaviour before we're old enough to have been gendered by culture, and almost identically in closely related primate species too. In terms of gender being binary, it's probably just a failure of our modern categorical/empirical thinking that we feel the need to try and wrangle bell-curve behaviours into a set of never-ending categories because not everyone's the same, rather than just accept that it can be both binary and on a spectrum at the same time.

As far as the article goes, surely the reason we should segregate men and women is to protect generally weaker and smaller women from rapey inmates, in which case she should probably stay with the male prisoners so long as she still has her dong.
 
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Dr Mantis Toboggan

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#7
It really depends what you mean by gender. If you mean a set of ideal behaviours that combine to form a gender role for the corresponding sex then yeah, it's a social construct. But if you're asking whether differences in the way men and women think and by extension behave are just something our culture has conditioned us to believe are real, then no, it isn't. The science is pretty clear on how differently our brains work, it manifests in behaviour before we're old enough to have been gendered by culture, and almost identically in closely related primate species too. In terms of gender being binary, it's probably just a failure of our modern categorical/empirical thinking that we feel the need to try and wrangle bell-curve behaviours into a set of never-ending categories because not everyone's the same, rather than just accept that it can be both binary and on a spectrum at the same time.

As far as the article goes, surely the reason we should segregate men and women is to protect generally weaker and smaller women from rapey inmates, in which case she should probably stay with the male prisoners so long as she still has her dong.
moving aside politics and things for a sec, isn't that on the face of it a failure of the prison system? like in the most tightly controlled environment we can subject people too, there's sufficient lack of effort that people do still get killed and raped in prison? it appears to me that crime in prison is accepted as the 'punishment' element. women's prisons are better cause, due to the patriarchy, women are precious flowers and need our protection, whereas men need tough love (sometimes literally)
 

Ebeneezer Goode

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#8
I doubt that prisons would be any more unisex if we lived in a matriarchal society. It's certainly true that we don't do enough to make prisons safe places for rehabilitation though.
 

Ebeneezer Goode

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#10
Yeah you might be onto something :lol:

Oh well she's been sent to a women's prison now. We'll have to check back in 9 months.
 

mowgli

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#11
With a record as long as his/hers prison was the only punishment, as to men or womens prison that's difficult but i assume doctors get involved somewhere even a shrink.
 
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Dr Mantis Toboggan

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#12
i'd have hoped a shrink would be involved at all levels of a prisoner's sentencing, wouldn't wanna put a flight risk in a minimum security n all
 
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#13
With a record as long as his/hers prison was the only punishment, as to men or womens prison that's difficult but i assume doctors get involved somewhere even a shrink.
"The service said transsexual prisoners are overseen by psychologists, healthcare professionals and prison staff"

I want to have an opinion on this but it's bloody difficult and complex.

Automatic reaction is that she should be in a female prison. Just looking at her it would be unfair for her to be in a testosterone, sex-deprived male environment...but then I fall into the trap of looking at someone and assuming gender.

The easiest way for the prisons to deal with this is to go off a birthcertificate/passport as they did in this case.

To be honest I think my opinion is they have done the right thing from start to finish. They've used the passport as an initial guidance and later changed their minds when it became clear her passport identity did not match who she was.
 

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