Wigan Athletic go into administration

Indian Dan

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The problem is that clubs always suffer the consequences of their owners’ actions - as we know only too well.
 

That Fat Centre Half

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Was about to say at least he is real! And the bankruptcy itself doesn’t disqualify from him from owning the club per the EFLs own test.

Still feel the EFL are hugely culpable here, the transaction they approved stinks to high heaven with the fact Choi was involved in both entities but the more you read about it the more you realise the EFL “rules” as written are simply not fit for purpose to stop this kind of chicanery.

The whole thing needs reform and proper oversight.
 

Indian Dan

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So the fit and proper ‘test’ isn’t actually carried out by the EFL it’s a fucking self certification exercise!

That explains why so many rogues, charlatans and thieves pass it.
 

Don Tonberry

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Ali Al-Faraj, did anyone ever find him in the end?
Al-Faraj is a real person but he was just a fall guy, some random bloke that could be used so the guys at Portpin couldn't be exposed. It fooled the EFL (naturally) but not the sleuths among our fan base who soon connected the dots between the three "owners" at the time. I feel sorry for Wigan fans going through this same shit.
 

NorthernSoul

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I've wrote a lot elsewhere, this is dodgy as it gets. Au Yeung is an office worked recently declared bankrupt and is pretty skint. Certainly does have £40m, he is being used as a fall guy or his identity is being used as cover. if the EFL did any sort of check Choi would have been banned from owning in the first place.

Good news on the points front, looks highly likely we won't receive any, unless the EFL decide to break their own rules. Which is why the club brought in a top QC as they have full proof of no creditors being owed money.

You don't get 12 points for entering administration, it's for an insolvency event where you cannot pay debts to creditors. It just so happens that every club who has previously entered administration, did so as a result of this occurring. until Wigan. As we have not yet missed a payment to a creditor, we have not yet suffered an insolvency event and therefore, as per the rules, there is no rule to say we should receive a 12 point deduction. This is exactly why Blackpool had their 12 point deduction removed for the same reason, as they didn't owe a creditor.

EFL statement.
'In all circumstances a sporting sanction applies in respect of an insolvency event (default 12-point penalty). The Regulation seeks to ensure that a Club cannot gain any advantage over other Clubs in the competition by not paying its creditors in full and on time, while also ensuring there is a deterrent in place for Clubs and their owners, from operating in a manner so as to cause insolvency.
 

Kenneth E End

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I've wrote a lot elsewhere, this is dodgy as it gets. Au Yeung is an office worked recently declared bankrupt and is pretty skint. Certainly does have £40m, he is being used as a fall guy or his identity is being used as cover. if the EFL did any sort of check Choi would have been banned from owning in the first place.

Good news on the points front, looks highly likely we won't receive any, unless the EFL decide to break their own rules. Which is why the club brought in a top QC as they have full proof of no creditors being owed money.

You don't get 12 points for entering administration, it's for an insolvency event where you cannot pay debts to creditors. It just so happens that every club who has previously entered administration, did so as a result of this occurring. until Wigan. As we have not yet missed a payment to a creditor, we have not yet suffered an insolvency event and therefore, as per the rules, there is no rule to say we should receive a 12 point deduction. This is exactly why Blackpool had their 12 point deduction removed for the same reason, as they didn't owe a creditor.

EFL statement.
'In all circumstances a sporting sanction applies in respect of an insolvency event (default 12-point penalty). The Regulation seeks to ensure that a Club cannot gain any advantage over other Clubs in the competition by not paying its creditors in full and on time, while also ensuring there is a deterrent in place for Clubs and their owners, from operating in a manner so as to cause insolvency.
Is this post reporting public statements from the administrators or just conjecture?

Administration IS an insolvency event - that surely cannot be argued. It is up to the directors to run the business in a solvent way (it is illegal otherwise). Lots of businesses are not actually 'delinquent' when they go into administration; it is something that comes down the line. This event gives future protection against these creditors.

I have full sympathy for Wigan - it is an awful situation and a classic example of why the Fit & Proper Persons Test is a total failure and the EFL need to take some responsibility. But the rules are clear - force majeure is the only reason and it is clear that this situation isn't related to Covid-19.
 

NorthernSoul

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Information from public statements.

We are subject to an insolvency event, however no payments have been missed. The EFL rules state they issue the 12 points in the event of an insolvency event occurring in the form of missed payments to creditors.

This snippet is from the BBC about Blackpool, due to them not owing any money to a creditor the EFL considered an insolvency event not to yet have taken place, therefore as stated on the EFL rules 12 points are not required. This is the same situation as we are in and the EFL set a precedent with Blackpool last season.

'According to EFL regulations, any club that become subject to an insolvency event, including the appointment of a receiver, could be deducted 12 points.
The Seasiders are eighth in League One.
The EFL board said they "agreed that the appointment of the receiver is not material to the club's ability to fulfil its obligations as a member club and as a result should not be regarded as having suffered an insolvency event, meaning a 12-point deduction is not applicable".'

If we don't raise the funds by the end of July then we will default on payment to creditors and that would trigger the punishment for 12 points to be deducted in 2020/21 season. However, we are actively trying to sell players to avoid that.
 

Kenneth E End

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I can see your logic, but still don't agree with the interpretation. In typical contract law, any event rather than a direct administration or straight liquidation results in the debtor potentially failing to fulfill their obligations, they are immediately in a default situation.

I have come across instances in the past where debtors are not delinquent in payments to creditors, but have taken direct action to secure their asset or put measures in place to ensure they are not exposed.

But hey, we should be used to the EFL making it up as they go along right now.
 

NorthernSoul

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I can understand what you are saying too, administration seems to be considered an insolvency process, where sometimes you can enter it to prevent an event taking place. The event itself is when a debt hasn't been paid to a creditor.

The EFLs rules gives full scope to exploit a challenge, which Blackpool did and fairly won and as our circumstances are the same, the same consistency should apply. If the EFL want to deduct for simply entering admin/receivership, they need to change the rules.

Truth be told the EFL probably never expected a club to enter debt free and never thought the rules would be an issue.
 

Indian Dan

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so, up until recently Choi has run the club properly - hence the lack of debt. He’s put in around £40m in purchasing and running the club. A Championship club is worth more than a L1 club when it comes to being sold. You have players worth around £25m which could be sold in a matter of weeks if need be.

So why has all this happened? The betting rumour doesn’t seem plausible to me.
 

Kenneth E End

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So Wigan owe creditors £11m. And yet think they shouldn't get a 12 point deduction.
 

Indian Dan

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If they win tonight I don’t think they’d bother appealing the deduction.
 

Luke Imp

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So Wigan owe creditors £11m. And yet think they shouldn't get a 12 point deduction.
Tbf, it's not about what they owe, it's about being able to afford what they owe. I know strictly speaking they've relied on others but I bet a good £1m or so has come about since being placed in admin, excluding the admin fees. Things like EFL advancing payments, any transfer fees due (pretty standard practise to be in instalments) etc all add up.

They've still been completely stitched up. All this would've probably been more straight forward to sort had they remained in the Championship and no doubt been fine had their ownership structure not messed them over. TV money would cover most of that £11m and that's where they'll find the big problem because L1 is way, way short of the Championship figure (and that's not taking into account the away fans they can get into the DW Stadium)..
 

That Fat Centre Half

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Did anyone find it a little bit...odd how much Barnsley celebrated last night? If we were in that same situation as them I’d be too busy sweating out how the appeal for Wigan is going to go than getting the champagne out. I despertely wanted to avoid that situation all evening.

Obviously they are very likely to stay up but it’s not exactly signed sealed and delivered and if Wigan hadn’t been done like a kipper they would be down.
 

Kenneth E End

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I dearly hope for Wigan’s sake these administrators and lawyers know what they’re doing spending £500k on an appeal that no other club has bothered challenging and winning. How many creditors could be paid with that cash? In my opinion, this case is a waste of resources.

Seemingly their logic is that in their eyes the season should’ve finished in May - they went into administration on 1 Jul. I can’t see a court taking kindly to that considering the force majeure the whole world is seeing and having to adapt to.

Another danger coming down the track is that they don’t come out with an agreed CVA. They could start next season on -15.
 
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SF_

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Don't see how it can be appealed, plenty of clubs have had points deductions through no fault of the actual club.
 

Kenneth E End

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Wigan’s appeal is to be heard at the back end of this coming week. To be honest, if they do succeed we and everyone else should be suing the EFL for every other deduction they’ve put in place.
 

Muzzle

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Insolvency IS and admistration event
 

Craig

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Some proper vitriol being directed at us by Wigan fans and some others as a result of all this on social media. You love to see it.
 

BelizeHatter

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Good luck. While everyone sees its rough on Wigan fans and management admin is admin is -12pts. End of story
 

Kenneth E End

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The Wigan appeal result to be known within the next hour or so.

If they win, it'll reopen a whole set of cans full of worms.

Rumour according to the Daily Mirror journalist says they've failed.

Edit: Confirmed via Twitter. Why did Wigan's administrators think this was going to succeed? £400-500k down the drain. I'm sure their own administrators fees will go unharmed though...
 
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SF_

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Usually an easy 4/6pts a season so that's a shame.
 

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