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Bet no-one here has an opinion on climate change

HertsWolf

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COP21 approaches and yet no-one, not even EG, has expressed any opinion.

Now it may be that no-one here has the slightest knowledge of the topic but as having any understanding whatsoever is almost a pre-requisite, I wondered what peoples' views were.

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Personally, I'm going to be hugely pissed off if we end up creating a better world and it's absolutely not necessary.
 

Pagnell

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Unfortunately, even if climate change is as a result of what we have done to the planet in the last 150 years rather than a naturally occurring cycle, I reckon it's too late to do anything bar perhaps slowing it down a little. However, too many countries don't give a shit (China and the USA being the main two I can think of) for the rest to make more than a cursory difference at this point.
 

silkyman

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One of my clients sells energy efficiency measures, and we banned 'the C word' about three years ago.

You can't sell on 'Carbon'. You can sell on better insulation and lighting making your home cheaper to run, warmer, more comfortable and healthier.

That we're also saving something like a hot air balloon's worth of co2 every year from that property is of little relevance to the homeowner usually, but cumulatively it would do some good if everyone could do it.

GreenDeal was a fucking joke, and if they had used Quantitative Easing to put money into the stuff we do, we could have slashed the entire countries energy bills, reduced the nations carbon footprint and created loads of jobs and even saved the NHS a fair whack. But that wouldn't have put money into the pockets of bankers.
 
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I personally believe it's all part of a natural cycle, we're technically in an ice age right now still, so I think we're just coming out of that. It will probably lead to a massive loss of human life which is a massive shame, I agree, however we've over-populated the bloody planet as it is.
 

SALTIRE

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I personally believe it's all part of a natural cycle, we're technically in an ice age right now still, so I think we're just coming out of that. It will probably lead to a massive loss of human life which is a massive shame, I agree, however we've over-populated the bloody planet as it is.

I heard that we should be in an ice age now, the medieval period was supposedly bitterly cold and you used to have events running for years on the frozen Thames it was that cold. The industrial revolution definitely warmed it all up though and today's big cities are artificially warmer than they should be with all the heat that is generated from them. This has effectively stopped the latest ice age taking hold on Earth, whether thats a good thing or not is open for debate tbh, but its definitely not natural. There are peaks and troughs in climate history of course, but we have definitely impacted greatly on it over the last 300 years.
 

liu

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Unfortunately, even if climate change is as a result of what we have done to the planet in the last 150 years rather than a naturally occurring cycle, I reckon it's too late to do anything bar perhaps slowing it down a little. However, too many countries don't give a shit (China and the USA being the main two I can think of) for the rest to make more than a cursory difference at this point.

Don't think you can just blame it on other countries. After all, it's all about how much people consume. No way energies consumed by an average Chinese in his life can be more than an average European or British.
When there's demand, there will come the supply. Like playing football, somebody has to do the dirty works. You benefit at least as much as we do (not including those capitalists who own the factories) from what China do to the environment. I don't think we meant to help the world, but things come with a reason. At the price the world want to pay, China is the best option currently.
The right thing to do is to change our life style as well as develop new technologies to produce what we need without as much input.
 

smat

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I don't eat beef and I've got solar panels. My hands are clean.

Hey, I bet a lot of it global warming comes from this very sub-forum, if you get my drift! (There's a lot of HOT AIR in here after all!)
 

mnb089mnb

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I heard that we should be in an ice age now, the medieval period was supposedly bitterly cold and you used to have events running for years on the frozen Thames it was that cold.

Thames used to freeze over because it was wider and shallower than it is today. Still interesting though.

This description is great:

Londoners stood on the Thames eating gingerbread and sipping gin. The party on the frozen river had begun on 1 February and would carry on for another four days.
The ice was thick enough to support printing presses churning out souvenirs. Oxen were roasted in front of roaring fires, drink was liberally taken and dances were held. An elephant was marched across the river alongside Blackfriars Bridge.
 
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I don't eat beef and I've got solar panels. My hands are clean.

Hey, I bet a lot of it global warming comes from this very sub-forum, if you get my drift! (There's a lot of HOT AIR in here after all!)

Eat more beef then, get rid of the fuckers quicker.
 

Pagnell

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Don't think you can just blame it on other countries. After all, it's all about how much people consume. No way energies consumed by an average Chinese in his life can be more than an average European or British.
When there's demand, there will come the supply. Like playing football, somebody has to do the dirty works. You benefit at least as much as we do (not including those capitalists who own the factories) from what China do to the environment. I don't think we meant to help the world, but things come with a reason. At the price the world want to pay, China is the best option currently.
The right thing to do is to change our life style as well as develop new technologies to produce what we need without as much input.

I wasn't aware I'd blamed it on just other countries, merely pointed out that the likes of China, India and the USA have far less concern about their emissions than their European counterparts. And I have no doubt that your average Chinese individual has a smaller carbon footprint than the average Brit or European, but with a population double that of the whole of Europe, it's a moot point to an extent.
 

Tilbury

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The general cycle for the global climate is 100,000 years in an ice age then 12,000 'warm' interglacial years. It's been roughly 11,000 since the last ice age ended so we're kinda due a new one in the next few thousand years, however some have predicted this could be an extra long interglacial period. Who knows what the last few hundred years of human emissions output is doing/has done to this cycle, the planet appears to be warming up at an increasing rate. Fascinating subject.
 

G-Dragon

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In the grand scheme of things, us humans can't save or destroy the planet. Only thing we can do is save or destroy ourselves. The earth will be here long after we are gone.
 

smat

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In the grand scheme of things, us humans can't save or destroy the planet. Only thing we can do is save or destroy ourselves. The earth will be here long after we are gone.
There will prolly literally be a planet, but we can totes destroy weather patterns and ecosystems fyi. Your opinion is bad.
 

G-Dragon

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There will prolly literally be a planet, but we can totes destroy weather patterns and ecosystems fyi. Your opinion is bad.
lol what? clueless smh.
 

sl1k

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I wasn't aware I'd blamed it on just other countries, merely pointed out that the likes of China, India and the USA have far less concern about their emissions than their European counterparts.

The Europeans defo give the climate change and environment issue more weight, but it's easy to do that when you've already gone through your industrialisation period and have outsourced the majority of manufacturing to 3rd world countries so our capitalist masters can make a few extra £££.

And I have no doubt that your average Chinese individual has a smaller carbon footprint than the average Brit or European, but with a population double that of the whole of Europe, it's a moot point to an extent.

To the extent that Chinese policy would directly affect more of the world's population as a proportion, than yes. But individual consumption is still the main driving force behind the overall carbon footprint no matter where you are in the world especially due to our global trading network. Supply and demand n all that.
 

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Christian Slater

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It's on the US and China to set an example by bringing their emissions down like the other industrialised nations have pledged. The emergence of India and Brazil becoming more powerful and advanced means it's only going to get worse, portions of Africa will catch up eventually too. These emerging countries aren't going to adhere to emission regulations if other leading nations won't. The problem is America is too influenced by super pacs and lobbyists and China doesn't give a shit.
 

G-Dragon

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It's on the US and China to set an example by bringing their emissions down like the other industrialised nations have pledged. The emergence of India and Brazil becoming more powerful and advanced means it's only going to get worse, portions of Africa will catch up eventually too. These emerging countries aren't going to adhere to emission regulations if other leading nations won't. The problem is America is too influenced by super pacs and lobbyists and China doesn't give a shit.
Don't think that's fair to emerging nations.
 

Aber gas

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I don't like the notion that because China/USA etc aren't acting on climate change we shouldn't bother. Changing our attitude and infrastructure towards sustainable energy benefits us environmentally , socially, politically and economically. In the long term we will have to change the way we use energy so why not get the infrastructure in place, we are already decades behind Germany in the use of energy saving technology for example.
 

Pagnell

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I don't like the notion that because China/USA etc aren't acting on climate change we shouldn't bother. Changing our attitude and infrastructure towards sustainable energy benefits us environmentally , socially, politically and economically. In the long term we will have to change the way we use energy so why not get the infrastructure in place, we are already decades behind Germany in the use of energy saving technology for example.

Has anyone said that?
 
A

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions

China, India and the United states produce half the worlds greenhouse gasses. Not surprising but still a bit scary. The big surprise for me was Australia having the largest output per person.

The combined population of those three countries is getting on for 3 billion people. Yes they're big emitters but it's hardly like they're absolutely off the scale in comparison to everyone else.

Re the general issue of climate change - I know very little about it but find it so hard to learn with all the outrageous claims that fly around. There were people saying in 2000 that unless drastic action was taken right away we were in for catastrophe by 2020. It's not looking like a great claim now. And then there are people who, no matter how much evidence is cited, insist that the Earth has always cooled and warmed and state categorically that we are having no impact.

When Al Gore was all the rage on climate change I remember him being interviewed on the BBC one week after a British scientist (whose name I really, really wish I could remember). He said something along the lines of "I'm a great admirer of [insert scientist name] - he's forgotten more about science than I'll ever know". The scientist had been on the record as saying that climate change is real, it's influenced by human activity but there's absolutely nothing we can do to reverse it.

So yeah. Haven't a clue. All I know is that I'm not sure I can carry on watching Bill Maher because he never fucking shuts up about it.
 

Aber gas

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On here I mean. It sounded like you were responding to posts in this thread.
I meant generally, no one on here has explicitly posted that opinion but the nihilistic " why should we bother" attitude is widespread and I don't agree with it.
 

Christian Slater

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The belief it's a fallacy is more widespread and of more concern. At least those shrugging their shoulders acknowledge the reality.
 

Aber gas

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The belief it's a fallacy is more widespread and of more concern. At least those shrugging their shoulders acknowledge the reality.
It's the same. Whether the failure to act is through ignorance or indifference is irrelevant imvho.
 

Christian Slater

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I disagree, the former is cancerous by influence.
 

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