Kevin Nolan thinks VAR use should be controlled by managers

Gaz12321

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So Kevin Nolan thinks the best way to use VAR is to let managers have 1 call each where they can ask for something to be reviewed ...

What is he on? How can a manager (potentially 60 or 70 yards away) be positioned better to see an incorrect call than somebody watching via a close up HD camera on a screen??

I get the concern over the additional time but if we want to reduce the chances and impact of incorrect decisions then the current use is the best way forward. As long as they stick to the major decisions that they have outlined then additional time won't be drastic.

They way it is being trialled at the moment is the right way to do it and the more it's used and people get used to using it the more effective it will become. The only thing i'd consider is whether the ref needs to go and watch a replay if the VAR thinks a decision needs changing, why not just trust the officials that are watching on the screen and overrule on their say?

I can't see Nolan getting too much support on his opinion here, it's bizarre.

** It won't let me link the article, but it's on BBC Football Website **
 

Richard Cranium

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I think we need a good behaviour scheme where by managers are rated on there performance on the touchline. If they get a good rating they win a challenge for the next game. That way Evans might behave himself and not upset wise old Gary Johnson.

In all seriousness VAR is a waste of time IMO. You get commentators and the likes saying all the time that’s there was contact. Is that enough for it to be a pen? If not then it’s just some other bloke behind a TV screens opinion. The Willian one Vs Norwich last week for example, IMO its never been a pen and for the way he went down he should be given a 5 game ban but all the talkshite experts were adamant it was a penalty. Opinions opinions.
 

Gaz12321

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There will always be varied opinions in football it's part of the game really and gives people talking points but for me VAR is a positive introduction, I watch the A League week in week out and it does correct a fair few errors. Officials have an impossible job so any assistance they can be given is a positive, it's just about minimising the interruption.

Football had to introduce some sort of assistance, every other sport has it and if the technology is available to reduce officials errors, even by 20%, surely that's a good thing?
 

Super_horns

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Danger is managers will want more than one appeal and think VAR should be used for any minor incident which might be debatable.
 

Cornish Piskie

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I think VAR is a positive addition to the game. The trouble is, how to implement it.

Firstly, I think it must stay under the control of the referee.

Secondly, I will repeat a theme I've brought up on a number of occasions, and that is to have matches run to a game clock, not played in real time. A game clock which could be stopped when a referral is called for (and for other things) takes the 'time lost to review' element out of the equation entirely.

Thirdly, we have to accept that inconvenience to fans is of secondary importance to ensuring that the decision making process in matches is as accurate as possible. Games get held up far more frequently, and for longer periods (often for no other reason than to waste time) for substitutions and treatment of <ahem> 'injuries'. Football fans accept these things, why get so hot under the collar about a review that will ensure a fair decision..?

TV pundits argue that when a goal is reviewed, the fans lose their "ecstasy moment"... the goal orgasm..... when the ball hits the net. Well, that is true but that has to be balanced out against the requirement to ensure that a fair goal has been scored. Which is the more important..? Fan excitement or a just decision..?

I'm the first to agree that reviews can be a pain in the butt. We don't want that sort of thing to happen so decisions need to be made quickly as well as accurately.

Does the referee really need to go to a touchline monitor to view an incident? It could be replayed on the stadium big screen for review and this would solve the question of fans and managers being able to see justice being done. Some would still argue anyway ("yeah, my bloke did pull his shirt but the other bloke didn't 'arf make a meal of it") but as long as the eventual decision is justified in accordance with the laws of the game then the final decision - one way or the other - would be correct. Perhaps a detailed set of guidelines for referees to follow during reviews needs to be produced..?

I think football needs to embrace video review. All other major sports use it and all agree that it has made the outcome of matches fairer.

In my opinion, it is the needs of the sport that take priority over other considerations.
 

Super_horns

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Well some grounds don't have a big screen but yes there does need to be better communication to the fans but then we are often thought of last these days !
 

Cornish Piskie

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Well some grounds don't have a big screen but yes there does need to be better communication to the fans but then we are often thought of last these days !

What better encouragement for the have-nots to get one, then?

And if VAR is accepted on a continuous basis and a big screen is accepted as a necessity, then the FA should help those who haven't got one with the cost.
 

Renegade

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I don't think Nolan's idea is that outrageous, I think what he is asking for mirrors the NFL, where decisions are appealed by the head coach. Generally the information is relayed to the coach by assistants watching the broadcast and only then do they decide to challenge the ruling on the field. It wouldn't simply be a case of a manager 70 yards away from the incident personally challenging the call. They are limited to three challenges per half so the system isn't abused...Nolan is asking for just one challenge in football.

I don't like the current implementation of VAR, though I think they almost have it correct. In any given game there will be multiple penalty appeals and it does impact the enjoyment of the game if they are all going to VAR. I would prefer if they implemented a system in which only penalties that are originally given by the referee are subsequently reviewed. This happens for touchdowns in the NFL (they are only reviewed if initially given by the referees) and it works reasonably well. There is general trust in the referees, but the coach can throw a flag to contend the decision if they have seen something egregious that might change the decision made by the referee. This way we wouldn't need to stop for every 50/50 penalty appeal.
 
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Cornish Piskie

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I see what you're saying but there is one fundamental difference between NFL and Football which needs to be given consideration.

NFL - just like cricket, tennis and rugby that already utilise video review - is a sport that has a built-in stoppage which occurs quite naturally and enables review without affecting the flow of the game. Football doesn't. F'rinsance, in NFL, when a player is tackled the play is ended, be it first down, second down or whatever. The officials (or coach) can throw their flag and the review can take place before the ball is snapped for the next down.

Similarly in tennis, review before the next service, in cricket before the next ball is bowled, in rugby before the ball is put into the scrum or the conversion is kicked or whatever. I'm sure you get the point. These sports have natural "breaks" that football doesn't. If the handball appeal is waved away by the referee or the penalty kick hits the post and bounces back into play or whatever, then play continues. The review can't take place until the ball goes over the touchline or goal line, or there is either another infringement which stops play.

There may be several minutes of live play with any number of things happening before a natural break occurs in a football match. If the referee waits for a stoppage, then that stoppage may be more serious than the original offence. For instance, a penalty claim may, on review, be upheld, but play continued until a red-card offence caused play to be stopped? Does the red card offence still stand even though it occurred during a phase of play which is no longer extant?

Alternatively, if the referee were to stop the game for no other reason than a review, and that review shows that no offence took place, then the team that had been in possession (and possibly in a potentially goalscoring situation) may be unfairly penalised by the stoppage.

As I said in a previous post, I can envisage situations whereby a manager who sees, say, Manchester City's sky blue goal machine breaking out of defence in the last minute, with the score at 1-1 would throw his flag just to stop the game and prevent Kevin de Bruyne playing Sergio in for a last minute winner. Couldn't happen..? Well, if you think managers are too honourable and gentlemanly to do such a thing, then I'm afraid I would have to disagree.

And even then, if play is stopped to allow a review, if that review comes to nothing, how would the game be re-started? By an uncontested dropped ball..? When the opposition have got all their players back behind the ball..? Hardly fair recompense for a lost advantage, is it..?

And what about the amount of time lost in a match while the ball is live before a review? As I said, the game could still be live for several minutes before a review takes place during which time anything that happens is expunged from the game. Is that time simply lost..? See my previous comment about a "Game Clock".

So many questions. So many "What If's". But they are all realistic scenarios that are potentially possible in any one match.

I want to see VAR implemented but like most fans, I don't want the game to be altered out of all recognition. One of football's major attractions is its continuity of play and to damage that would be to make the cure worse than the illness.

I think the football authorities are heading in the right direction with VAR. They've not quite got it right yet and it still needs a few tweaks, but the most important thing to remember is that it should be there to serve the gameand make the decision making process more accurate while proofing against exploitation by those who would find ways to turn it to their advantage.
 

Renegade

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Well, my idea takes the natural break out of the equation for the most part, as we'd only review the incident if the referee has already stopped play because they've given the penalty.

Though, if the flag idea was implemented for other blatant penalty appeals that the referee has missed, I'm sure it can be refined, I agree that we are at the mercy of natural stoppages. If a coach gets very quick information from his staff and the ball goes out of play quickly, I think having a flag system would be more beneficial than the current implementation. In its current guise, we are still are the whim of a natural break in play before VAR anyway, this way would just limit the decisions that will be reviewed to the ones the manager deems egregious.

Either way, the manager having some control, but generally being forced to trust the competence of the referee is a positive thing. Maybe we could limit the coach from throwing flags whilst the ball is still in play or if X amount of time has passed. At the moment player and crowd pressure is influencing decisions too much. I would also suspend players for doing the VAR gesture after every incident. That has got tedious very quickly.
 
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Cornish Piskie

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Well, my idea takes the natural break out of the equation for the most part, as we'd only review the incident if the referee has already stopped play because they've given the penalty.

Though, if the flag idea was implemented for other blatant penalty appeals that the referee has missed, I'm sure it can be refined, I agree that we are at the mercy of natural stoppages. If a coach gets very quick information from his staff and the ball goes out of play quickly, I think having a flag system would be more beneficial than the current implementation. In its current guise, we are still are the whim of a natural break in play before VAR anyway, this way would just limit the decisions that will be reviewed to the ones the manager deems egregious.

Either way, the manager having some control, but generally being forced to trust the competence of the referee is a positive thing. Maybe we could limit the coach from throwing flags whilst the ball is still in play or if X amount of time has passed. At the moment player and crowd pressure is influencing decisions too much. I would also suspend players for doing the VAR gesture after every incident. That has got tedious very quickly.


Very interesting and valid points, Renny. I think there is a lot of food for thought there and I'm sure the FA, despite their propensity for usually making a rats ass of everything they try to do, seem to be progressing towards a good and useful system.

I accept your argument but I'm still not convinced that putting any sort of power in the hands of managers would be a good thing, but that's a personal opinion based on the "Give 'em an inch and they'll take a million miles" principle.

Good discussion though.
 

Ale18

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in my opinion is not a good idea.
as you said managers are not in a optimal position. And, 1 call is too little.

in Italy they are working on it and I think the maximum efficiency of the var will be reached soon. After a year of tests the improvements are seen.

it will be a room that will welcome the var. From there you can support the referees who I think are the only ones who have to intervene on the var.
 

Redpelt

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Kevin Nolan's eagerness to get his head on the ball has evidently come back to haunt him.
 

DelPieroTips

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Its make sense but it's not going to happen as already the UEFA chairman said - they're not won't want var in UFEA tournament because it is not good enough ( in my view the reason is that they won't be able to push Real M forward :D :D
 

Old Athletic Ham

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I watch a lot of NHL and the coach having a call, aided by a video coach who is watching the game on a tablet or screen of some kind works very well. If it's only happening to dispute calls the ref has made or goals then the game isn't going to have to be stopped as it already will have been.
 

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