Premier League 2?

[Paul_1984]

I believe European Domestic Football Leagues should evolve to a semi-closed League System, to allow more stability for clubs involved in top tiers, better geographic and demographic representation, better average attendances (bigger stadiums), etc.

And you guys what do you think about this matter?
How this could apply to England?
For example: (Just my crazy opinion, don't take to hard...)

Spoiler

Level 1 - Premier League One: 20 Clubs. 4 Relegations. Each 2 years.
Level 2 - Premier League Two: 20 Clubs. 4 Promotions. Each 2 years.
----------- Each 4 years, club promotion and relegation could take place between PL and FL according to Global Club Ranking.
Level 3 - Football League One: 20 Clubs. 4 Relegations.
Level 4 - Football League Two: 20 Clubs. 4 Promotions.
---------- Each 2 years. club promotion and relegation could take place between FL and NL, according to Global Club Ranking.
Level 5 - National League One: 40 Clubs (North Division and South Division). National Playoffs. 4 Promotions, 4 Relegations.
Level 6 - National League Two: 40 Clubs (North Division and South Division). National Playoffs. 4 Promotions. 4 Relegations.
Level 7 - Regional League One: 80 Clubs (4 Divisions: Northwest, Northeast, Southwest, Southeast). 4 Promotions, 8 Relegations.
Level 8 - Regional League Two: 80 Clubs (4 Divisions: Northwest, Northeast, Southwest, Southeast). 8 Promotions, 8 Relegations.

North Division: North and Middlands, except Northamptonshire. South Division: The rest.
Northeast Division: North East, Yorkshire and the Humber,, East Middlands (Withou Northamptonshire).
Northwest Division: North West and West Middlands.
Southeast: East of England, London and Northamptonshire.
Southwest: South West and South East.

TOTAL: 320 Clubs (-48 clubs)

CUP COMPETITIONS
FA Cups:
- FA CUP (Levels 1-8): 320 Clubs. Knockout Competition.
- FA Community Shield. Single match competition.

League Cups:
- Premier League Cup: 40 Clubs. R1 - 16 (excluding PL One and Promoted and Relegated clubs), R2 - 32, R3 - 16, R4 - 8, R5 - 4, R6 . Final.
- Football League Cup: 40 Clubs.
- National League Cup: 80 Clubs
- Regional League Cup: 160 Clubs

40 "Ideal" Premier League Clubs: Newcastle United-Sunderland, Middlesbrough-Hull City, Leeds-Bradford, Sheffield-Stoke City, Blackburn-Preston, Manchester United-Manchester City, Liverpool-Everton, Notthingham-Derby, Leicester-Coventry, Aston Villa-Birmingham, Wolverhampton-West Bromwich, Plymouth-Bristol, Bournemouth-Brighton, Southampton-Portsmouth, Reading-Milton Keynes, Norwich- Ipswich, Greater London (8 Clubs).

Also I was thinking in a Super League with 16-20 clubs from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland ... That's why I do not include clubs from Wales.
[/spoiler)]

 

[Art Morte]

I wish I never clicked on that spoiler. My brain hurts.

 

[MagpieBee]

Don't think it would lead to bigger attendances or better stadiums. Current system seems fine.

 

[Paul_1984]

With this system you would have all major cities, towns, urban areas with at least one club in Premier League (D1 and D2), for a long time, developing more fiercest and enduring rivalries.

Also with a 4 years window to planning club/team investment (only in the 5th and 10th season the list of clubs in Premier League two divisions could change) one bad season doesn't mean you're dead.

League Cup and specially FA Cup will mean a lot more for english football.

I believe Premier League Two attendance could reach 30k and Premier League One could reach 45k. (Clubs in Premier League must have home stadium with at least 30k).

Next season without Sunderland (42k, 6th), Aston Villa (34k, 11th) and Newcastle (49k, 4th highest attendance) what will happen with Premier League interest and attendance? Nothing against Burnley in Premier League, but...

 

[Art Morte]

You're trying too hard, man.

 

[JaseTheVillain]

No. And this is coming from a Villa fan who are off to the Championship.

 

[Jarv]

No because under that system teams like Swindon, Barnsley, Oldham & Fulham i daresay would never have had their time in the top league. Being in the Premier league has to be earned. Who would you kick out of this new league so one of the Bristol teams could be in the new league?

 

[Paul_1984]

Bristol City is already in The Championship. However with only 20 clubs in Level 2 some small cities/towns teams will be left out...


I agree with you in the merit question, but with a global market (much of Premier League Money comes from international market for example) you have to ponder other factors.

My suggestion is a midway term between the present model and a no promotion/relegation system.

I think in the top tiers promotion and relegation shouldn't be so quickly.

One season doesn't prove the value of one team, that's why many times the clubs go up one season and down in the other...

2 years between Level 1 and Level 2 and 4 years between Level 2 and Level 3, and again 2 years between Level 4 and 5 (Level 3 and 4 direct pro/relegation), seems reasonoble.

This gives more time for teams to prove their value or rebound from a bad season.

 

[JaseTheVillain]

No because under that system teams like Swindon, Barnsley, Oldham & Fulham i daresay would never have had their time in the top league. Being in the Premier league has to be earned. Who would you kick out of this new league so one of the Bristol teams could be in the new league?

Bournemouth, Hull too...

 

[Paul_1984]

Fulham, Bournemouth and Hull I think they are almost certain options. Don't Forget that the PL will have between 40 (ideal) and 44 (Level 2 with 44 clubs. I think it's to much, maybe 22 is more reasonable.).

Barnsley, Burnley, Rotherham, Brentford, Oldham are teams from smaller or crowded markets...
However they could get a place in this Premier League format. If after 4 years with this system they ranked in the top 4 of Football League.. Despiste their ranking, stadium facilities should also be a issue. To enter PL at least 20k.

For me, doesn't make sense clubs with stadium between 5k and 15k in the top 2. For many reasons. One of them is the huge gap in ticket sales revenue!

Also for television if you want the billions they pay right now or even more, we need clubs in major markets.

It's nice having one club from a small town reaching Top level, but this end here all the other matters is not so nice for the league, for the club, etc.

 

[Jarv]

So the 80k people who live in Fulham get to see top level football but the 250k people of Rotherham or 100k people of Oldham have to make do with the scraps?

It all doesn't matter anyway as long as Man United are in there that's all the broadcasters really care about, That's where the draw is

 

[MagpieBee]

Fulham, Bournemouth and Hull I think they are almost certain options. Don't Forget that the PL will have between 40 (ideal) and 44 (Level 2 with 44 clubs. I think it's to much, maybe 22 is more reasonable.).

Barnsley, Burnley, Rotherham, Brentford, Oldham are teams from smaller or crowded markets...
However they could get a place in this Premier League format. If after 4 years with this system they ranked in the top 4 of Football League.. Despiste their ranking, stadium facilities should also be a issue. To enter PL at least 20k.

For me, doesn't make sense clubs with stadium between 5k and 15k in the top 2. For many reasons. One of them is the huge gap in ticket sales revenue!

Also for television if you want the billions they pay right now or even more, we need clubs in major markets.

It's nice having one club from a small town reaching Top level, but this end here all the other matters is not so nice for the league, for the club, etc.

Can't remember where the post is, but somewhere on this forum is a diagram showing if everyone in the country supported the team geographically closest to them, Brentford would be something like the 4th best supported team in the UK So you should probably have us in your PL1 then...

 

[johnnytodd]

Football is not here for TV viewers imo.

I give a person 100 times more respect if he or she goes to watch Grimsby or Exeter City regulary than a person who say lets think................sitting in his armchair in Scotland or Bergen with his rattle and bagdes on watching Liverpool every week.

Which person football needs more is a close run thing however thanks to SKY TV.

 

[Paul_1984]

Professional football is a business and a TV event.

If you don't like it you have semi-pro and amateur football...

London is a special case...

Rotherham could be a option in a Premier League Two with 24 clubs. However stadium in this case is one problem...

 

[Paul_1984]

This image represents my opinion in this matter.

Premier League One: 20 Clubs. Relegation 2-4 clubs each 2 years. Changes in the League in the 3rd, 6th, 9th seasons, etc.
Premier League Two: 24 Clubs (Above I wrote 20 clubs, but 24 is better). Relegation 2-4 Clubs each 4 years.
Changes in Premier League overall in the 5th, 10th, 15th seasons, etc.

Red - Must be clubs.
Black - Between this 8 clubs, only 4 will make it to Premier League.
London Area: 8 Clubs

 

[johnnytodd]

are you on meth?

 

[T.A]

Says it all when Johnny Todd accuses you of being high.

 

[Paul_1984]

Why?

This is a idea for the next decade. Football is changing... LOL
This is a combination of England best clubs and largest urban areas inside a league system without a direct link between Level 1-4, for more stability, better team/club development, etc.

 

[Son of Cod]

So you're suggesting a season lasts 2 years?

What's this obsession with large urban areas? The best thing, for me, about English football is going to towns that you'd never go to otherwise. I've seen loads of more of the country supporting a lower league team than non-away match attending friends. The big clubs are already way too powerful in our setup. This system is so spirit crushingly anti-small club that I'm going to assume you're an Ebeneezer Goode troll account.

 

[The Mustard Tiger]

 

[Paul_1984]

So you're suggesting a season lasts 2 years?

What's this obsession with large urban areas? The best thing, for me, about English football is going to towns that you'd never go to otherwise. I've seen loads of more of the country supporting a lower league team than non-away match attending friends. The big clubs are already way too powerful in our setup. This system is so spirit crushingly anti-small club that I'm going to assume you're an Ebeneezer Goode troll account.

No, the same as now, one year each season.

However Pro/Rel will happen not every year in top divisions.

a Overrall ranking with the last 2 seasons will determine the relegated clubs and the promoted clubs between PL One and PL Two.

4 seasons overrall ranking, between Premier League and Football League.

Now you have 8 big clubs, with this system you could have perhaps 20 big clubs.

Also the gap between Level One and Level Two could be reduced with this system.

 

[JaseTheVillain]

Does the two season ranking determine overall champion too, seeing as a single season doesn't define a club?

 

[Son of Cod]

How does that make 12 more big clubs? And why would we want 12 more big clubs? What about a reverse system? Would mid season promotion/relegation reduce the amount of big clubs? If so, then by 2018 we could have gotten rid of the lot of them.

 

[JaseTheVillain]

Ohh, ohh, we could have a play-off between the top 6 teams each season to determine the champion.

 

[JaseTheVillain]

Or maybe, we could just give the title to the biggest club each year!

 

[TheMinsterman]

Or maybe, we could just give the title to the biggest club each year!

Biggest urban area wins surely?

 

[Paul_1984]

How does that make 12 more big clubs? And why would we want 12 more big clubs? What about a reverse system? Would mid season promotion/relegation reduce the amount of big clubs? If so, then by 2018 we could have gotten rid of the lot of them.

How? Because each club could be in top flight longer enhancing popularity among home market population, for example.

With this system you will have the same 44 clubs in D1 and D2 in 4 consecutive seasons, or the same 40 clubs in 9 consecutive seasons.

I believe this could rise competition levels in Premier League, making the life of biggest clubs harder, and maybe more clubs like Leicester could reach the top spots...

 

[SRNP]

The first poster, no offence, is what's wrong with football. How the fuck is that better than our current system?

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[MagpieBee]

Yeah, this would completely remove fairy tales like Leicester or West Ham, or any of the other teams doing particularly well.

The only team it would benefit currently would be Arsenal or Chelsea. Bet he supports one of those.

 

[SRNP]

The top flight of football will break away NFL style and have a Europe super league, when that happens say goodbye to football in england. It'll go bust and the football league will fold soon after. I hate the premier league and the fans that only watch the premier league and think its the bee's knees, when in reality is terrible compared to lower league football. Leicester and west ham style runs happen every year at most levels.

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