Rank League 2 clubs in order of size.. (Stolen from L1)

U

UTS

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I'm sure this thread is bound to ruffle a few feathers.. but here is my opinion:

I shall be basing it off history, attendances and to a lesser extent stadium size and facilities..

1) Portsmouth - Group 1
2) Luton Town
3) Plymouth Argyle
-----------------------------------------------
4) Tranmere Rovers - Group 2
5) Oxford United
6) Southend United
7) Carlisle United
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8) Northampton Town - Group 3
9) Shrewsbury Town
10) AFC Wimbledon
11) Cambridge United
-----------------------------------------------
12) Bury - Group 4
13) Hartlepool United
14) Exeter City
15) Mansfield Town
16) Wycombe Wanderers
17) York City
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18) Stevenage - Group 5
19) Newport County
20) Burton Albion
21) Cheltenham Town
-------------------------------------------------
22) Dagenham & Redbridge - Group 6
23) Morecambe
24) Accrington Stanley

The lines indicate groups of clubs that are similarly sized

Let me know what your interpretation is...

UPDATED: 19:16
 
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AdamStag

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#2
Think that is a fair enough assessment tbh.

That said, i'd also move Mansfield and Hartlepool down a group
 
U

UTS

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Thread starter #3
I'm inclined to swap York and Wycombe around.. But Wycombe have recent L1 history whereas York have been in the BSP.
 

Richard Cranium

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#4
I wouldn't have Luton in the top 3. Tranmere have not played in L2 for about 20 years have they? Luton have, and had 4 years out of it in the Conference. I'd swap those pair. Not sure why Wimbledon and Cambridge are as high as they are. I'd swap Bury with Wimbledon and Wycombe with Cambridge.
 

Shrimpurh

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#6
Hmmm can't see how we are at all smaller than Northampton, Oxford or Carlisle I'd have us above those three.

Edit on a par with Carlisle but bigger than Oxford and Northampton
 

Murphy

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#7
I would like to nominate us into Group 1 based on our away end.

And Group 6 based on everything else.
 
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#8
Don't get why people think Plymouth are a massive club, they're just your typical run of the mill third division side like Swindon and Bristol Rovers are.

Portsmouth and Luton (despite their recent Conference stint) are the two clubs in this division that have spent a large majority of their history in the Top 2 tiers.

Then you have Accrington, Morecambe, Dagenham, Stevenage, Cheltenham, Burton and Wycombe who are historically Conference sides with perhaps the latter being regarded as an established League side given they've spent a fair stretch in League One.

Wimbledon are an anomaly, obviously a non-league side at heart but also had unprecedented success in the 80s and 90s. I would consider them to be in the L1/L2 category too rather than non-league.

Rest of the league wouldn't look out of place in League One or League Two, even Newport, who were a top half League One club getting decent crowds before their financial implosion in the late 1980s.

I mentioned on the League One page that over half the league up there would also not look out of place in League One or League Two so you're always going to say that there are about 75% of clubs in the third and fourth tier that wouldn't look out of place in either. You're always going to have those clubs in this division like Plymouth, Southend and Oxford that feel like they should be at the very least in League One when in truth they don't look out of place in League Two at all.
 
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Meadow

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#9
I would like to nominate us into Group 1 based on our away end.

And Group 6 based on everything else.
There's one major problem with your away end*, it's all seater. I hate all seaters.


*Yes, I know ours is dreadful but we do offer seats and terracing.
 

Murphy

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#10
There's one major problem with your away end*, it's all seater. I hate all seaters.


*Yes, I know ours is dreadful but we do offer seats and terracing.
We could have made it terracing, but then we'd be chucked out the league for not having a minimum number of seats ;)

You wouldn't want that now, would you...
 

AdamStag

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#12
Right - I have cracked it -

Awaiting all sorts of abuse here, but this is how I have worked it out.

It was a very, very slow day at work as the server was down (shame)
It is a little unfair on sides like Wimbledon (we all know the story) on things like all time points in the league.

In short, the fewer points you have, the "bigger" you are - the 3 points relate to the 3 points below, and the last one is obviously the total.

Appreciate it's far from perfect, but hey.

I have done it on 3 things
1) Total amount of points ever accumulated in the league
2) League placing this season
3) Average attendance this season.

So, below, the 1st 3 columns relate to the 3 factors above, the last being the total.

1. 2-7-3=11 PLYMOUTH
2. 3-4-5=12 SOUTHEND
3. 7-5-2=13 LUTON
4. 6-14-1=21 PORTSMOUTH
4. 13-2-6=21 SHREWSBURY
6. 1-6-15=22 BURY
7. 5-10-9=24 NORTHAMPTON
8. 16-3-13=32 WYCOMBE
9. 9-13-12=34 EXETER
10. 4-23-8=35 TRANMERE
11. 14-18-4=36 OXFORD
12. 15-17-7=39 CAMBRIDGE
13. 21-1-19=41 BURTON
13. 10-21-10=41 CARLISLE
15. 23-11-11=45 WIMBLEDON
16. 8-24-14=46 HARTLEPOOL
17. 12-20-16=48 YORK
17. 22-8-18=48 STEVENAGE
19. 11-19-20=50 MANSFIELD
19. 24-9-17=50 NEWPORT
21. 19-12-22=53 MORECAMBE
22. 18=15=25=57 ACCRINGTON
23. 20-16-22=58 DAGENHAM
24. 17-22-21=60 CHELTENHAM
 
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#13
I think the best way of assessing club size for all levels is gauging it from say when the Fourth Division, or League Two as we now know it was created and also when the maximum wage for players was abolished as it allowed clubs from big cities to climb up the leagues like Second Division Liverpool and Leeds United at the expense of your Burnley's, Blackpool's and Preston's that suddenly went into decline.
 

huddsmoose

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#14
I've never seen Cobblers as a particularly big side, certainly no bigger than Cambridge and I'm surprised to see them ranked above Saarfend and Oxford? Otherwise I think the Bury fan has it pretty close.
 

Kenneth E End

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#15
1) Portsmouth
2) Plymouth Argyle
3) Luton town
Plymouth get lower gates, have never won a major trophy and have never been above the second tier.

Whereas we've only spent about 10 years outside the top 3 tiers since we joined the Football League in the 1920s.
 
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#16
I've never seen Cobblers as a particularly big side, certainly no bigger than Cambridge and I'm surprised to see them ranked above Saarfend and Oxford? Otherwise I think the Bury fan has it pretty close.
Northampton were a regular mainstay on the Fourth Division calendar for Crewe back in the old days. If they were a big side their ground would definitely be a lot bigger for a start.
 
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UTS

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I have now tweaked the table to one that's seems to fit everyone's opinion..

of course, feel free to do your own,
 

Indian Dan

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#18
That's some bollocks.

Carlisle have been a top tier and it pains me to say it, so have Oxford (as well as winning the League Cup) - they've got to be in Group 1

Southend have done fuck all and if history is part of this Bury need to be much higher
 
U

UTS

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Thread starter #19
Don't get why people think Plymouth are a massive club, they're just your typical run of the mill third division side like Swindon and Bristol Rovers are.
Just 10 years ago Plymouth were averaging 16,500 (More than Luton were at the same time) and had a 5 year spell in the Championship that ended in the 2009/10 season. They also smashed this league on a 102 pts with one of the best teams ever seen at this level.

They deserve to be 2nd in my view.
 

Kenneth E End

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#21
Just 10 years ago Plymouth were averaging 16,500 (More than Luton were at the same time) and had a 5 year spell in the Championship that ended in the 2009/10 season. They also smashed this league on a 102 pts with one of the best teams ever seen at this level.

They deserve to be 2nd in my view.
We don't have 16,500 seats in our stadium. I'd argue that if we had the capacity in the Championship we would've averaged 15,000. Most home games were total sell outs. I'd argue that our game this season would've had an attendance of over 12,500 if we had the capacity.
 
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#22
Just 10 years ago Plymouth were averaging 16,500 (More than Luton were at the same time) and had a 5 year spell in the Championship that ended in the 2009/10 season. They also smashed this league on a 102 pts with one of the best teams ever seen at this level.

They deserve to be 2nd in my view.
And before that outstanding 2001-02 they had, the season before they averaged about 5000 at home at a run down Home Park. Any club that gets to the Championship will have an inflated attendance due to the quality of opposition there, we used to get just shy of 8000 a game ourselves when we were there and 10,000 when the big teams came to town. Also with Home Park looking a respectable ground when they got to the Championship in 2004, it's no surprise they got a ton of fans on top of the move. They were on a crest of a wave and are nothing more than a third tier side historically.

Look at Middlesbrough, 34K a week in the Prem now half that in the Championship and if Stoke went down vast swathes of red seats would appear at the Shitannia guaranteed.
 
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We don't have 16,500 seats in our stadium. I'd argue that if we had the capacity in the Championship we would've averaged 15,000. Most home games were total sell outs. I'd argue that our game this season would've had an attendance of over 12,500 if we had the capacity.
The thing is Luton have spent 5 years in the conference, in a close decision that's what puts Plymouth over Luton.
 
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#25
Luton have won the League Cup, finished in the Top 6/7 in England in the 80s, hell there was even a time on the old Astro turf outside Gresty Road where a lad used to play in an old Bedford Luton top and he was from bloody Nantwich with no Southern connection whatsoever!

Have Plymouth even won the JPT?
 

Kenneth E End

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#26
hell there was even a time on the old Astro turf outside Gresty Road where a lad used to play in an old Bedford Luton top and he was from bloody Nantwich with no Southern connection whatsoever!
Amen to this.
If you go abroad, its rare not to see another Luton shirt. We've got fans in about 40 different countries, including about a 400-strong Scandinavian Supporters Club, who had never been to Luton.
 
U

UTS

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Thread starter #27
Fair points raised by the Luton fans, Plymouth have a far better recent history whereas Luton have a more illustrious history overall..

It's a tough one..
 

hellogregory

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#28
I really couldn't give a shit in all honesty, it's now that matters and right now we're the shittest in the land,
but as we're doing this, that first post seems about right to me, but put us above Southend in that second group.
 

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