Rank League 2 clubs in order of size.. (Stolen from L1)

[Vanni]

I would have Luton ahead of Plymouth myself. Also, Accrington should be above the likes of Stevenage, Burton, Dagenham and Morecambe.

Would also swap Tranmere with Shrewsbury.

 

[UTS]

Updated

 

[Gladders]

Being classed as a non league side at some point especially in recent times immediately puts you at a big disadvantage when it comes to being classed as big. Sorry Luton!

The first post also states stadium size and facilities as a criteria so you can't use the old excuse of we would have bigger crowds if we didn't have a shit ground as an excuse either!

 

[Murphy]

I'd argue we'd be above Morecambe anyway. We might have a lower points tally over the course of our respective times in the league, but we've played in League One, whereas they haven't. Surely that counts for something?

 

[Chippy]

Not surprised to see Frealaf trying to dig Luton out! We're bigger than Plymouth for sure. No debate on it for me.

 

[womble76]

In the late 80 Luton were one of the small clubs to come to plough lane. Division one at the time. Just saying .

 

[Don Tonberry]

I'd put Luton above Plymouth for the fact that they've played in the top flight and won a major trophy in their history.

And they were only non-league because of that ridiculous points deduction.

 

[shoddycollins]

I'd argue we'd be above Morecambe anyway. We might have a lower points tally over the course of our respective times in the league, but we've played in League One, whereas they haven't. Surely that counts for something?

Perhaps the points total should be weighted so that points gained in higher leagues are worth more. Although I'm sure in AdamStag's version he was just going off what data he was able to collect.

 

[AdamStag]

The problem being is, is that tables can be manipulated to suit what you want the outcomes to be.

By having 3 variables at least allowed some form of reliability.

Would I say Plymouth are the bigger than Luton? I probably would.

Would I say cheltenham are the smallest club? Probably not

 

[Shrew_fan]

Would also swap Tranmere with Shrewsbury.

As a Shrewsbury fan I wouldnt agree with that - Tramere are a far bigger club than us. Pretty much agree with the table although I wouldn;t have the Cobblers above us....

 

[BigDaveCUFC]

The big question here is of course what sides could potentially get.

good examples being Swansea who now get 20,000+ and Hull with 24,000 now who both got little more than 4,000 10 odd years ago.

Carlisle has a ridiculous swaying fanbase, it can get 8-10,000 in non-league, but 3,500 in League One, it can potentially get 20,000+ in the premiership, but that support would die a death if they dropped out of it.

Luton is hard to say due to restrictions of their ground, Plymouth is another who could get 20,000 if doing well, but 4,000 if crap....Oxford is another like that.

Southend I'm unsure on, they can get solid gates, but seem to sort've not lose masses when doing poor, but not gain masses when doing well, I think when they were in Championship they only got 8,000 odd

 

[SF_]

Without thinking about it i'd say Plymouth are a bigger club than Luton.

When Luton were getting sub 8,000 crowds in the Championship, did the home end sell out every week? I presume it didn't.

In terms of core fanbase, i'd put Plymouth in a similar bracket to ourselves, Burnley and Huddersfield.

 

[T.A]

Got to look at Wigan. Struggled to get 2,000 when they were down here but got 12-14k home fans in the glory days of the premiership. Obviously most have fucked off now. I think they get 6-8k home fans now, which will dwindle again if they are relegated again.

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

Having a new or significantly redeveloped ground always distorts the true size of a club. There was no way Wigan, Brighton, Hull, Swansea, Plymouth, Blackpool and the like were going to get five figure crowds regularly in the dilapidated shit tips they once inhabited. Even on a lesser scale, clubs like Chesterfield and Shrewsbury have seen their support double thanks to the new ground factor.

In 10 years time, clubs may move to different stadia and it's possible that clubs like Carlisle or Southend may consistenly average well over five figures like Plymouth once did upon their ground redevelopment. Doesn't make them all big clubs though.

 

[SF_]

Having a new or significantly redeveloped ground always distorts the true size of a club. There was no way Wigan, Brighton, Hull, Swansea, Plymouth, Blackpool and the like were going to get five figure crowds regularly in the dilapidated shit tips they once inhabited. Even on a lesser scale, clubs like Chesterfield and Shrewsbury have seen their support double thanks to the new ground factor.

In 10 years time, clubs may move to different stadia and it's possible that clubs like Carlisle or Southend may consistenly average well over five figures like Plymouth once did upon their ground redevelopment. Doesn't make them all big clubs though.

Blackpool's ground is still shite in fairness, only reason they surpassed the 10k mark is a taste of the Prem and £200 season tickets.

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

Blackpool's ground is still shite in fairness, only reason they surpassed the 10k mark is a taste of the Prem and £200 season tickets.

In all fairness Blackpool are up there with Stoke as the most fickle fans in the country, unappreciative bastards, but their ground is a significant improvement to the corrugated iron and timber structures back in the 90s.

 

[BigDaveCUFC]

I've gone with this.

1) Plymouth Argyle - Group 1
2) Portsmouth
3) Carlisle United
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4) Luton Town - Group 2
5) Northampton Town
6) Southend United
7) Oxford United
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8) Exeter City - Group 3
9) Cheltenham Town
10) Tranmere Rovers
11) York City
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12) Shrewsbury Town - Group 4
13) AFc Wimbledon
14) Mansfield Town
15) Cambridge United
16) Wycombe Wanderers
17) Bury
-------------------------------------------------
18) Stevenage - Group 5
19) Hartlepool United
20) Newport County
21) Burton Albion
-------------------------------------------------
22) Dagenham & Redbridge - Group 6
23) Morecambe
24) Accrington Stanley

I think potentially Plymouth are the biggest club is over 250,000 people in Plymouth and its also stuck out the way, no competition, if they got into top flight they have a huge potential. Portsmouth next but I think if Plymouth had the steady stream of top flight football like Portsmouth had they'd be bigger. Carlisle complete my top group they are smaller than Luton, Northampton and Southend but I think the potential if in top flight is huge for grabbing lots from over the border, Glasgow is only an hour away and Edinburgh hour and a half if they got into top flight and milked neutral support like Wigan/Fulham did.

Next group is 4 sides who can all potentially do well and are bigger in terms of place than Carlisle, but in areas of more competition, restricted grounds, a less varied fanbase size puts them below Carlisle for me.....but all could claim to be in that 3rd place and you could not argue it.

Exeter/Chelts for me at the dark horses, both are big places but never grow due to small grounds and lack of rising above L2/L1. Chelts has about 200,000 people in it if they ever had a money man and some big areas nearby with no football teams. After that is much of a muchness, Wimbledon have their limits in terms of growth, rest are towns, mostly in order of which towns get bigger/smaller followings.

 

[Walkley_Owl]

We don't have 16,500 seats in our stadium. I'd argue that if we had the capacity in the Championship we would've averaged 15,000. Most home games were total sell outs. I'd argue that our game this season would've had an attendance of over 12,500 if we had the capacity.

You had 7 total sell outs from 46 games.

Average 05/06 was 9,139
Average 06/07 was 8,580

 

[womble76]

In the prem we had at best 12000 of our own member or fans. This dropped often significantly against lesser sides. I would think with the structure we now have that this is our target again. 11 to 12 thousand in our own ground back in wimbledon in the Championship. This lifts us up the table imo

 

[shoddycollins]

I feel the best way to determine how big a club is, if you could factor out Tuesday nights, local rivalries and other reasons for big attendances such as ticket offers or six-pointers, how big a boost on average do they give the home attendance when playing away.

For example many clubs this season will have their highest home attendance against Portsmouth, Portsmouth are a big club so when fans who don't attend every game look at the fixture list they pick that one out as one to attend.

Unfortunately below Portsmouth I imagine it would be impossible to pick the effect of the away team's bigness out from all the random noise that affects attendance, but the principle I think is sound. The bigger a team is, the more they draw in opposition fans to watch them. If there were a better way to measure that I'd go with that.

 

[UTS]

I've gone with this.

1) Plymouth Argyle - Group 1
2) Portsmouth
3) Carlisle United
-----------------------------------------------
4) Luton Town - Group 2
5) Northampton Town
6) Southend United
7) Oxford United
-----------------------------------------------
8) Exeter City - Group 3
9) Cheltenham Town
10) Tranmere Rovers
11) York City
-----------------------------------------------
12) Shrewsbury Town - Group 4
13) AFc Wimbledon
14) Mansfield Town
15) Cambridge United
16) Wycombe Wanderers
17) Bury
-------------------------------------------------
18) Stevenage - Group 5
19) Hartlepool United
20) Newport County
21) Burton Albion
-------------------------------------------------
22) Dagenham & Redbridge - Group 6
23) Morecambe
24) Accrington Stanley

I think potentially Plymouth are the biggest club is over 250,000 people in Plymouth and its also stuck out the way, no competition, if they got into top flight they have a huge potential. Portsmouth next but I think if Plymouth had the steady stream of top flight football like Portsmouth had they'd be bigger. Carlisle complete my top group they are smaller than Luton, Northampton and Southend but I think the potential if in top flight is huge for grabbing lots from over the border, Glasgow is only an hour away and Edinburgh hour and a half if they got into top flight and milked neutral support like Wigan/Fulham did.

Next group is 4 sides who can all potentially do well and are bigger in terms of place than Carlisle, but in areas of more competition, restricted grounds, a less varied fanbase size puts them below Carlisle for me.....but all could claim to be in that 3rd place and you could not argue it.

Exeter/Chelts for me at the dark horses, both are big places but never grow due to small grounds and lack of rising above L2/L1. Chelts has about 200,000 people in it if they ever had a money man and some big areas nearby with no football teams. After that is much of a muchness, Wimbledon have their limits in terms of growth, rest are towns, mostly in order of which towns get bigger/smaller followings.

So you have constructed you table according to potential catchment area and then have Bury in 17th? Greater Manchester has a population of 2.5 million.

 

[shoddycollins]

So you have constructed you table according to potential catchment area and then have Bury in 17th? Greater Manchester has a population of 2.5 million.

I think he's limiting your catchment area by the big clubs surrounding you.

 

[Richard Cranium]

But Bury has Man Utd, Man City, Blackburn, Wigan and god knows how many more within about an hour of Bury

 

[SF_]

Bury's catchment area stretches over three whole streets.

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

I've always found it weird that Oldham, Bury and Rochdale have always struggled for fans yet when Stockport were in the league they were getting 6000-7000 in League One despite all four suffering from being in close proximity to those two toxic brands in Manchester.

I know Oldham got big crowds in the Prem and big crowds whenever they've had a playoff season in League One but it does make you wonder why this is the case..

 

[BigDaveCUFC]

Bury I placed low on numerous factors, one is competition, second that when you do have good seasons you get small gates, the same applies to hartlepool.

you don't seem to really get more than 5,000 home fans and have to rely on away support for bigger gates.......it is harsh, but its the way it is. Trinidad has said it spot on, Bury, Rochdale and co in decent areas get a lot less than Stockport did when at similar levels which says a lot.

Portsmouth BTW will always at present raise more home fans for other clubs as they used to be a well known top flight club in recent years and all the hype and media stuff around them. I don't mean to say there Portsmouth are small, they are a big club, but it sort've sways why they get more than others hype wise.

 

[Laker]

I've been watching this thread rather than contributing to it as there's no correct answer to this and everyone's opinion will differ.

But I feel compelled to comment on Dave putting Cheltenham in there ahead of us. The population of Cambridge is around 160,000 now with massive population growth forecast for the city (seriously the amount of new homes going up is amazing) and there is no league club within 30 miles of us, and that club is Stevenage who are clearly smaller. The nearest larger clubs to us are Peterborough (though it's only due to the last 10 years while we've been non-league) and Luton at 40 miles, Spurs/Arsenal/Ipswich at 55 miles and Norwich at 65 miles.

The catchment area around Cambridge is therefore enormous, it's just a shame most of those who live in the city couldn't give a fuck about football and those who live outside are mostly plastics. But then I'd say the same about Cheltenham and probably Exeter too - both cities are known more for other sports (horse racing and rugby respectively). And our attendances are generally as high if not higher than both, and our history canes Cheltenham and at least rivals Exeter's.

I'm happy to allow people to rank us above or below the likes of Mansfield, Wimbledon, York and Bury if they wish. But Cheltenham is certainly one I wouldn't. I think they're far too high on Dave's list.

 

[LordJord]

I am a little suprised we are perceived to be as large as stated above. We sadly happen to have the best rugby team in the country literally down the road from us which keeps our crowd a little lower.
That being said, the cachement area of Northamptonshire is huge. The nearest league clubs to us are a reasonable distance away in Coventry and MK.

 

[Vanni]

As a Shrewsbury fan I wouldnt agree with that - Tramere are a far bigger club than us. Pretty much agree with the table although I wouldn;t have the Cobblers above us....

Having thought about it a little more, I think you're right. I was going more on attendances and in which division the clubs have spent the more time in, and I forgot that Rovers spent quite some time playing 2nd div football.

 

[Don Tonberry]

Dave, I can't fathom how you'd put Plymouth above us simply because of their potential.

Silverware and prestige surely have to play a part in how big a club is. Plymouth have neither having never won a major honour or played in the top flight. We're the most successful club south of London.

It does make me wonder how much bigger our crowds would be if we had a shiny new stadium, too.