Ashes 2015

[RavenBish]

Yet Johnson is putting it past the batsman's nose at 87mph and Starc and Hazlewood are moving through the air and off the pitch. All Broad, Anderson and Wood did was trundle it down at 80 mph and feed the Aussie batsmen. The batters have been a shower of shite, but the bowlers haven't been much better.

The England bowlers were not 'trundling it down at 80mph' - bit of an exaggeration. Starc and Johnson are a bit quicker in general than Anderson and Broad anyway, Broad is a mid 80s bowler. Hazlewood has been bowling a similar pace. Not sure where you've dreamt up this 'moving through the air and off the pitch' stuff from either.

It's as good a batting pitch as you'll find. In context, it's been one of the worst batting displays I've ever seen.

 

[Super_horns]

Well and truly hammered!

Top order is a worry - too inconsistent?

 

[Dazza]

No the top order are consistent.Consistently crap.A flat pitch and they produce that shite.

 

[Super_horns]

True but even Cook and Root had bad ways of getting out..

Too exposed

 

[Modernist]

4-1 to the aussies unless the weather creates a draw.

 

[SpireiteDan]

That's bad, really, really, bad.

I think a County side would have given them a better game. I know this Aussie team are better than us this moment in time but FFS can so stop bending over for them so readily. 6 of the last 7 tests lost to them and without checking back, probably 6 absolute pastings.

 

[slaphead]

The England bowlers were not 'trundling it down at 80mph' - bit of an exaggeration. Starc and Johnson are a bit quicker in general than Anderson and Broad anyway, Broad is a mid 80s bowler. Hazlewood has been bowling a similar pace. Not sure where you've dreamt up this 'moving through the air and off the pitch' stuff from either.

It's as good a batting pitch as you'll find. In context, it's been one of the worst batting displays I've ever seen.

Dream't it up? Did you not see the ball Hazlewood got Root with, moved in the air, hit the seam and bowled him down the slope. That batting performance was a disgrace, but England's bowlers did not execute the basics. Fucking Hell, even Lyon was turning it at the end. Nathan fucking Lyon. A Sunday pie chucker if ever there was one.

We must find a proper opener for the next Test. Root has to bat 3. And we must stop this obsession with batting down to 9 incase (when) the top order fail (again). Get a proper spinner in there, Edgbaston will turn from day 3. And most importantly, prepare a surface that our bowlers can bowl well on, another Cardiff surface one with something in it for Anderson and Broad if we are going to persist with them. And no more dead pitches in the hope we can score enough runs not to lose.

 

[slaphead]

Just seen Udal's tweet that Pietersen needs to be recalled. Didn't take long.

 

[Aber gas]

There is no point panicking , it's been mentioned on this thread but there aren't many ready made replacements . I'd give lyth the whole series , poor sod should have had 3 tests in the windies to bed in so he deserves a chance . I do think we have to sort out 3/4 though . I'd be happy to have hales in over ballance for the next test ( let ballance work on his technique and confidence in the county game ) . As for bell , I wouldn't be gutted if he was left out but after all he's done for england he deserves the rest of the summer . If he was to go Id love to see hildreth given a chance but I am a bit biased !

 

[RavenBish]

Taylor and Bairstow have both hit centuries today.

 

[Skinner]

At least we've got ten days before the next test, rather than going straight back in. Gives a chance for the squad to recover mentally, and obviously the media shitstorm to blow over.

 

[slaphead]

I'd be tempted to drop Lyth, Ballance and Bell too. However, Edgbaston being Bell''s home ground might just save him. There are other problems too though. Anderson looks tired, we really need a full time spinner and Buttler''s batting is far too tentative.

My first, over-reacting team would be:

Cook
Compton
Root
Bell
Bairstow
Stokes
Ali
Buttler
Broad
Wood
Anderson

Unless it's a turning pitch,in which case Rashid for Bairstow, Stokes to five and Ali at six.

Worryingly I'm going to two days at Edgbaston and four at the Oval. We need to perform better than this or that won't be much fun...

That looks good to me, I'd just bring in Rashid for Buttler and give the gloves to Bairstow. Not sure about Compton either but he has to be better than Lyth.

 

[Saddlerrad]

I've seen a lot of calling for a change of captain on Twitter and another forum I use? Why pile pressure on Root when he's only 24 years old and in the best form of his life? Cook has captained well since we've returned home from the Windies, it was only last week he had his best captains performance without the bat in the field since he took over. The top 4 is an issue though. Keep Cook and give him an opening partner with some sort of tempo. Drop Ballance, he needs to do a Bairstow and go back to the county circuit to work on his technique for 18 months. Bell's finished in my opinion, his eyes of gone, he's lost his timing and he finds ways of getting out even when he looks set.

I'd have Bairstow in at 6, for Ballance as an absolute 100% certainty. I'd be very tempted to put Root at 4 and push everyone up a place in the order, give Lyth another go, bring Hales in at 3. Taylor and Bairstow scored 100's for their County's today. Anderson is fine IMO, but he just needs some help. Woods speeds were most notably down and he is always suffering with injuries - hence his lack of County performances. Someone like Rashid or Plunkett for a fast option.

Cook
Lyth
Hales
Root
Stokes
Bairstow
Buttler
Ali
Broad
Wood
Anderson

I'd be looking to get Rashid in somewhere, perhaps sending Ali to opener and dropping Lyth if he doesn't score again.


Also - one thing I'd say. It's traditionally English to stick by players in the last sort of decade or so. Australia played Watson in the first test....he was woeful after a poor run getting out (this is the important bit) - THE SAME WAY CONSTANTLY. What do the Aussies do - despite being successful recently. They MAKE CHANGES. Out goes Watson. His replacement makes a big contribution and the Aussies cruise. How long did it takes us to learn from opposition in the ODI format? What happened when we actually started following suit?

 

[Aber gas]

I'd be tempted to drop Lyth, Ballance and Bell too. However, Edgbaston being Bell''s home ground might just save him. There are other problems too though. Anderson looks tired, we really need a full time spinner and Buttler''s batting is far too tentative.

My first, over-reacting team would be:

Cook
Compton
Root
Bell
Bairstow
Stokes
Ali
Buttler
Broad
Wood
Anderson

Unless it's a turning pitch,in which case Rashid for Bairstow, Stokes to five and Ali at six.

Worryingly I'm going to two days at Edgbaston and four at the Oval. We need to perform better than this or that won't be much fun...

Compton is a fine player but he doesn't really fit with England's plan of playing attacking cricket. He was dropped ( perhaps unfairly ) because he struggled to get the ball of the square .

 

[SeasideKurt]

I wouldn't touch Lyth, I said at the start of the Ashes he isn't good enough and I'll be saying it at the end too.

 

[Aber gas]

I've seen a lot of calling for a change of captain on Twitter and another forum I use? Why pile pressure on Root when he's only 24 years old and in the best form of his life? Cook has captained well since we've returned home from the Windies, it was only last week he had his best captains performance without the bat in the field since he took over. The top 4 is an issue though. Keep Cook and give him an opening partner with some sort of tempo. Drop Ballance, he needs to do a Bairstow and go back to the county circuit to work on his technique for 18 months. Bell's finished in my opinion, his eyes of gone, he's lost his timing and he finds ways of getting out even when he looks set.

I'd have Bairstow in at 6, for Ballance as an absolute 100% certainty. I'd be very tempted to put Root at 4 and push everyone up a place in the order, give Lyth another go, bring Hales in at 3. Taylor and Bairstow scored 100's for their County's today. Anderson is fine IMO, but he just needs some help. Woods speeds were most notably down and he is always suffering with injuries - hence his lack of County performances. Someone like Rashid or Plunkett for a fast option.

Cook
Lyth
Hales
Root
Stokes
Bairstow
Buttler
Ali
Broad
Wood
Anderson

I'd be looking to get Rashid in somewhere, perhaps sending Ali to opener and dropping Lyth if he doesn't score again.


Also - one thing I'd say. It's traditionally English to stick by players in the last sort of decade or so. Australia played Watson in the first test....he was woeful after a poor run getting out (this is the important bit) - THE SAME WAY CONSTANTLY. What do the Aussies do - despite being successful recently. They MAKE CHANGES. Out goes Watson. His replacement makes a big contribution and the Aussies cruise. How long did it takes us to learn from opposition in the ODI format? What happened when we actually started following suit?

I like that team , We definetly wouldn't die wondering !

 

[RavenBish]

Compton would be just a case of deja-vu, he's no better than his last dull miserable stint in an England shirt.

I don't think Lyth can be dropped yet but he certainly will be if he's still poking stupidly at anything outside off in the next Test. My suspicions are that he's out of his depth, but he was arguably the best batsman in domestic cricket last summer, so calling for other players because of their CC form when he's only had 4 Tests seems a bit contradictory. Hales isn't anywhere near the player people think he is either, as I've been saying for months, in 4 dayers he's had one purple patch in about the last 24 months, I'd have Westley and possibly Leaning too in ahead of him - and i like Hales too, he's just not the sort of character who is going to dig in against Starc and Johnson if he's finding it a bit tough to get his shots away. James Taylor's finding a bit of form but the last thing he needs is to be chucked in at the deep end and have his confidence knocked again. Another who is on thin ice for me that escapes attention is Jos Buttler, he looks fucking terrible in the Test arena, he's just lucky Bairstow is after others' places before his own.

Cook
Lyth
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Ali
Buttler
Rashid
Broad
Wood (if fit...if not then give Steve Finn a go)
Anderson

although that seems a bit too risky. More likely I'd see Ali staying at 8 and Bell being given 1 more Test. To chuck him out and effectively end his Test career without giving him a chance for one last hurrah at his home ground Edgbaston (where he's had a lot of success), seems harsh.

 

[PaulHaddock]

It's almost like some of the team thought they had to win so decided to go all out whereas some continued to play the same defensive shots over and over again until they were caught out. They'd completely disregarded that the Aussies were steaming in and and bowling a lot better than themselves. The only good bowler the Aussies have is Johnson yet England played right into their hands. It's obvious the top order needs a change; I've yet to see Lyth have a good innings; Bell is in poor form and NEEDS dropping, and Ballance is not an international batsmen. Agree with promoting Root to 3 but Moeen opening? Really? Don't think Hales is the answer (ODI batsman) or Taylor. Maybe put Compton back in or give Lees a go. In terms of bowling, I saw calls of Anderson bedding dropping and Broad to 'grow up'. Get a grip ffs. Don't want Pietersen back in coz he's a pillock.

 

[Saddlerrad]

Forgot to mention 2 things.

The Aussie keeper Neville was very good, to be making his test debut in the Ashes at the home of cricket and entering what was a losing dressing room. He didn't put a foot wrong really and his batting looked solid enough. Ready replacement for Haddin when he calls it a day (37 now)? Secondly, just how fecking good is Chris Rogers? Looks so unfussy at the crease, simple enough technique, solid in defence and without being a traditional 'strokemaker' he manages to get the ball to the boundary with consumate ease. Talk about a late blossoming player. He will be hard for the Aussies to replace.

I suspect the Aussies team will look pretty different the next time we see them on English soil. No Rogers, Johnson is 33 now, Clarke 34, Haddin is 37, Voges is 35, Watson is 34. Infact, if the Aussies aren't careful, don't be surprised to see an absolute raft of retirements when we go down under in 2 years time.

 

[JJH]

After watching today's collapse, and soaking it in, I've finally got my head around it.

I, like RavenBish get annoyed when people rashly call for average County Championship players to come in and replace proven International players who are a bit out of Nick, but there are some serious adjustments that need addressing.

For Edgebaston, the only change I'd make is Bairstow for Ballance. Ballance looks all out of sorts at the moment, and I'm sorry to say it but with his technique he's not going to score runs. He needs to get back to County like Bairstow has done, make some re-adjustments and he'll come back a better player.

As for Bell and Lyth, both of them are on their last legs. Bell's lack of form often gets overlooked because of his fantastic career in an England shirt, but when you're playing a side this punishing with the pace attack that they withhold, you can't be playing players for sentimental reasoning. As for Lyth, he has a very short period of 10 days now to work on leaving the ball on length. His first innings dismissal was absolutely disgraceful, but his second one was a very good delivery, but a top opening batsman would have left it on length. If he can make a few adjustments, I think he'd be okay. I wouldn't bring Hales in for the opening batsman spot, I don't think he'd be suited to Test Match Cricket. Not for me anyway.

As for the order positioning, I'd have Root at 3. You have your best player at 3, and there are many classic examples of this, such as Viv Richards, Ponting etc, so I'd move Root up the order to try and sort out this top order problem.

So I'd have us lined up like this:

Cook
Lyth
Root
Bairstow
Bell
Stokes
Ali
Buttler
Broad
Anderson
Wood

 

[NiallQuinnDiscoPants]

Agreed. The one change I'd make is James Taylor in for Ballance. I'd give Lyth the series as his is only a slight change in mental attitude (leave the ball more outside off stump) and he did score a ton 2 tests ago. Bell is on a last chance at Edgbaston. His form has been poor since the World Cup, and he looked visibly all over the place yesterday 2nd innings.

Ballance has to go for the time being. His technique is pretty village standard. His feet are not moving at all. If he continues in this series he will not make runs whatsoever. I'd probably put Root up to 3, Bell 4, Stokes 5 (as he's in good touch), Taylor 6, Ali 7, Buttler 8. I also pray they prepare a wicket with something in it. The Aussie bowlers don't need a helpful pitch, they are rapid and pitch the ball up as much as possible (taking the pitch out of the equation). Anderson & Broad need helpful conditions. If we prepare another feather bed, we are doomed.

 

[Bobbin']

Ballance is replaced by Bairstow for the third test.

Who bats at three now? Root? Seems mad to move an out of form Ian Bell there.

 

[Saddlerrad]

Glad about that, it's been coming for a while. He needs an entire technique change.

 

[4froale]

I would of brought Taylor in.

 

[hodge]

I would of brought Taylor in.

Same, I could easily see Taylor as a number 3 where as now we either move an out of form Bell to a number he hasn't been successful at before or you move an in form Root and risk disrupting that form.

 

[hodge]

Just seen all of KP's bitching on twitter about how he should be prepping for the 3rd test instead of lying on a beach. So much wrong with that statement, firstly if he's okay to bat and thinks he should be playing for England why has he not been playing county cricket for Surrey? He has played all of 4 games and had 6 innings of first class cricket this summer and can't understand why he's not playing. In those games he's hit 1 50 and 1 (triple) ton so its not exactly like he was consistent even when he was playing.

If he was desperate to play for England he'd have continued playing for Surrey even when not picked for England and made a point with the bat.

 

[JJH]

After watching today's collapse, and soaking it in, I've finally got my head around it.

I, like RavenBish get annoyed when people rashly call for average County Championship players to come in and replace proven International players who are a bit out of Nick, but there are some serious adjustments that need addressing.

For Edgebaston, the only change I'd make is Bairstow for Ballance. Ballance looks all out of sorts at the moment, and I'm sorry to say it but with his technique he's not going to score runs. He needs to get back to County like Bairstow has done, make some re-adjustments and he'll come back a better player.

As for Bell and Lyth, both of them are on their last legs. Bell's lack of form often gets overlooked because of his fantastic career in an England shirt, but when you're playing a side this punishing with the pace attack that they withhold, you can't be playing players for sentimental reasoning. As for Lyth, he has a very short period of 10 days now to work on leaving the ball on length. His first innings dismissal was absolutely disgraceful, but his second one was a very good delivery, but a top opening batsman would have left it on length. If he can make a few adjustments, I think he'd be okay. I wouldn't bring Hales in for the opening batsman spot, I don't think he'd be suited to Test Match Cricket. Not for me anyway.

As for the order positioning, I'd have Root at 3. You have your best player at 3, and there are many classic examples of this, such as Viv Richards, Ponting etc, so I'd move Root up the order to try and sort out this top order problem.

So I'd have us lined up like this:

Cook
Lyth
Root
Bairstow
Bell
Stokes
Ali
Buttler
Broad
Anderson
Wood

Glad that this change has happened.

Ballance should be inspired by what Bairstow has done, where he has gone back to county and adapted his game.

I hope Ballance will be back.

 

[hodge]

If Bell were to be ditched Taylor has to be the man, he's pretty much a like for like ready made replacement for Bell.

 

[SeasideKurt]

Just seen all of KP's bitching on twitter about how he should be prepping for the 3rd test instead of lying on a beach. So much wrong with that statement, firstly if he's okay to bat and thinks he should be playing for England why has he not been playing county cricket for Surrey? He has played all of 4 games and had 6 innings of first class cricket this summer and can't understand why he's not playing. In those games he's hit 1 50 and 1 (triple) ton so its not exactly like he was consistent even when he was playing.

If he was desperate to play for England he'd have continued playing for Surrey even when not picked for England and made a point with the bat.

He's been told that under no circumstance that he will be playing for England this summer. I'd be on holiday too.

Biggest mistake English cricket has ever made by alienating one of Englands greatest ever batsmen.

 

[NiallQuinnDiscoPants]

Sky have put an article on their app comparing Steve Smith to Donald Bradman.

What happened to journalists who actually had a knowledge of sport? :jones: