Evo-Stik North Prem

[DarkSithLord]

Look forward to takeing in odd game. Alfreton just down road from me now, appauling ground like

Haha! Coming from a Gateshead fan?! Seriously? At least it hasnt got horrid running track round it?

Hope to see at a few games.

 

[SamScfc]

Looking forward to playing Darlo, great achievement aswell to be fair, never thought we'd be in the same league when they went bust about 5 years ago. Think they could be a threat next season.

 

[Quakerz]

Looking forward to playing Darlo, great achievement aswell to be fair, never thought we'd be in the same league when they went bust about 5 years ago. Think they could be a threat next season.

We never went bust mate.

We are the same club - though the FA are pretending that we did go bust and forced us to change our name.

In a year, we will apply to have the "1883" dropped.

 

[SamScfc]

We never went bust mate.

We are the same club - though the FA are pretending that we did go bust and forced us to change our name.

In a year, we will apply to have the "1883" dropped.

Ah, I apologise then, good to hear that foreign bloke who was your owner didn't kill your club then.

 

[Solihull Mooron]

We never went bust mate.

We are the same club - though the FA are pretending that we did go bust and forced us to change our name.

In a year, we will apply to have the "1883" dropped.

But you were founded in 2012? You went bust.

 

[DarlingtonFC]

We didn't go bust, we were relegated four Divisions when we came out of Administration without a CVA that's why we had to change our name. We paid off all our debts except for the chairman who had agreed he would give the fans the club for nothing then changed his mind at the last minute so we couldn't agree with him and he has royally done us over big style.
He held the football share which he wouldn't give us even though he had promised he would. We bought everything else the badge, the history, the players debts, other debts and everything else to do with Darlington FC but because the chairman wouldn't give us his football share we couldn't use Darlington FC, so that is why we had to change the name.
We have heard rumours from the FA that we can have the old name back after 5 years which has happened with Farsley who are now called Farsley Celtic and again with another team not sure think it was Flyde wasn't it after 5 years. So hopefully we have our name back next year. But no we didn't go bust, hope this explains things for you.

 

[Raymondo316]

We have heard rumours from the FA that we can have the old name back after 5 years which has happened with Farsley who are now called Farsley Celtic and again with another team not sure think it was Flyde wasn't it after 5 years. So hopefully we have our name back next year

Thats what happened to us

We were Maidstone Invicta from 1992-1997 & then the FA allowed us our old name back

 

[Bluandwite]

Congrats Darlo, some way to go up.

Pleased for you.

 

[Dave-Vale]

Massive well done. You've become my '2nd team' and I was well chuffed you've gone up.

A massive example of how clubs can start again and get it right. The likes of Hereford will take loads from this.

 

[SamScfc]

Yeah a few phoenix clubs seem to be doing well, not sure about Rushden though.

 

[Jemfy]

Yeah a few phoenix clubs seem to be doing well, not sure about Rushden though.

We're doing OK, 2 promotions in 3 full seasons and playoffs we won't win in the 4th.

Darlo and Hereford have big advantages over us in various ways. Both are bigger clubs, but both are also only partially fan owned with some money men involved. We're 100% fan owned which means we didn't have starting capital like those two, and we also don't have the same ground as before like most of the largely successful phoenix clubs. Also we're smaller to begin with, and we were attempted to be starved out of existence for the last couple of years after fans made it clear (on both sides) that we wouldn't accept a merger with our local rivals Kettering Town, then after the club went bust and we had to form a youth side in the first season due to timing that we wouldn't follow Kettering Town in our old stadium. Oh and both got to start at step 5 while we had to start at 6.

 

[DarkSithLord]

Shaw Lane Aquaforce will become Barnsley Town next season http://*/1V1zDsi #NonLeague @SLAquaFC

Not quite so tinpot!

Non League Yorkshire‏@NonLeagueNorth
Craig Wood has also confirmed that @SLAquaFC will not be known as Barnsley Town next season as originally planned http://www.nonleagueyorkshire.com/2016/04/24/wood-furious-fixture-schedule/…

 

[genesimmons]

Haha! Coming from a Gateshead fan?! Seriously? At least it hasnt got horrid running track round it?

Hope to see at a few games.

Take your point r.e. Running track but at least gateshead has proper stands and despite main stand been over 30 year old its in good nick. The ground also has excellent parking facilities and corporate and hospitality. Yous had plans when you were in confrence premier to rebuild ground. Been shelved? Will hopefully be down to catch darlington.

 

[JE93]

Darlo are also

We're doing OK, 2 promotions in 3 full seasons and playoffs we won't win in the 4th.

Darlo and Hereford have big advantages over us in various ways. Both are bigger clubs, but both are also only partially fan owned with some money men involved. We're 100% fan owned which means we didn't have starting capital like those two, and we also don't have the same ground as before like most of the largely successful phoenix clubs. Also we're smaller to begin with, and we were attempted to be starved out of existence for the last couple of years after fans made it clear (on both sides) that we wouldn't accept a merger with our local rivals Kettering Town, then after the club went bust and we had to form a youth side in the first season due to timing that we wouldn't follow Kettering Town in our old stadium. Oh and both got to start at step 5 while we had to start at 6.

As clubs go we were in a fairly tough position. We are 70% owned by our supporters club which we hope to get up to 90% with recent fund raising. The rest are made up of individual fans who invested more at the start.

We paid the old Club 250k to the old club for debts to players, club badge, club name etc. So started with large debt playing 20 miles out of town. And have had to negotiate and fund the ground improvements we need to get back to Darlo unlike Chester and Halifax who got to retain their grounds.

It's been an enjoyable and incredible road back to where we were. And to have done it with 3 promotions in 4 seasons with finishes of 1st, 2nd, 2nd and 1st when we started with 2 players on the books 4 years ago is a testament to the management, players and volunteers who now make me so pround to support DFC. Good luck to any team run by its fans Exeter, Portsmouth, Chester, Halifax etc it's the model for the future and we're looking forward to meeting some good old league friends in the near future.

 

[SGW]

The stand we (Wrexham) were in when I finally got to Gateshead this season was in good nick plus good sight lines but it was s............o far from the pitch. Not only was the running track in the way, so was all the space for the field events like long jump.

Not sure about the excellent parking, though. Don't know if there was something else on that night but I ended up parking on some scrubby ground on a track leading away from the car park. Then took f*cking ages to clear the car park after the game as well.

All in all, definitely not a dump but I doubt it's ever going to be pushing the top of anyone's favourite ground's list.

 

[DarkSithLord]

Take your point r.e. Running track but at least gateshead has proper stands and despite main stand been over 30 year old its in good nick. The ground also has excellent parking facilities and corporate and hospitality. Yous had plans when you were in confrence premier to rebuild ground. Been shelved? Will hopefully be down to catch darlington.

Yeah. Not gonna lie. Our ground isnt fantastic but by the same token it is not awful either. Its a nice quint Non League Ground. See you around.

 

[JE93]

Quite like the impact arena. Lived in Nottingham when I was at uni and used to visit Alfreton, Mansfield, Lincoln and Notts County to get my football fix. Always was very welcome at Alfreton and fans were always interested in chatting football. Good non league ground.

 

[Jemfy]

Darlo are also


As clubs go we were in a fairly tough position. We are 70% owned by our supporters club which we hope to get up to 90% with recent fund raising. The rest are made up of individual fans who invested more at the start.

We paid the old Club 250k to the old club for debts to players, club badge, club name etc. So started with large debt playing 20 miles out of town. And have had to negotiate and fund the ground improvements we need to get back to Darlo unlike Chester and Halifax who got to retain their grounds.

It's been an enjoyable and incredible road back to where we were. And to have done it with 3 promotions in 4 seasons with finishes of 1st, 2nd, 2nd and 1st when we started with 2 players on the books 4 years ago is a testament to the management, players and volunteers who now make me so pround to support DFC. Good luck to any team run by its fans Exeter, Portsmouth, Chester, Halifax etc it's the model for the future and we're looking forward to meeting some good old league friends in the near future.

I don't have the facts and figures to hand but I imagine that the combination of money invested by private individuals and the player sale add-on fees received that were bought out would amount to more than the 250k paid to the old club? (your words implying that you are not the same club and hence a phoenix side - is there disagreement among Darlo fans on this?)

Other than that, and you guys getting to start at step 5, we've had fairly similar paths. I would love if we could be boasting of 3 promotions in 4 years next week.

 

[JE93]

The story is fairly complex. In a simple sense when we were in the conference the fans set up a company to buy DFC from then owner Raj Singh. We bought the legacy playing staff debt, the club name, history, half of the transfer clauses (halved with the administrator) and badge from DFC for 250k to be repaid over the following 3 years. However Raj Singh would not allow us to buy the footballing share of the club after u-turning on a comment saying he wanted nothing from the fans. This meant we could not agree a CVA and exit administration which is in breach of conference rules. As such we were expelled from the conference divisions.

many then expected us to go into Step 3 as we were simply the same.club but now owned by a different company (the club's supporters trust and CIC) as many clubs are when they are bought out. However the FA deemed us to be a new club and put us back in at Step 5 in the Northern league.

Many fans think this is harsh, as we agreed to pay the footballing debts of the old club and payed to take on the benefits and liabilities of the old club. Tbh I don't really care what other fans think. This is the same DFC I have always supported the same people are in the stands the club badge and the kit is the same. Just our circumstances are different.

Regarding the transfer clauses. We've had circa 90k paid out by them to my knowledge. The only ones remaining are sell on clause of 9% for Dan Burn and a 1 off payment of x if he ever plays for England. As for the individuals who put in extra. Non of them are money men. Most are just DFC fans who didn't want to see their club die and dug a little deeper (this is probably why many of our fans are a little sensitive about the whole same or phoenix club issue, because they payed hard to make sure we were still the same club).

How likely is playoff success for you gus? Would that put you in step 3? Sorry get a but confused when all the leagues change names. Let's all meet up in the conference in a couple of years. With Hereford, Chester, Halifax etc. Could be a right fan owned love in haha.

 

[Jemfy]

Money men are money men however much or little they put in, otherwise you end up in semantics over how much someone has to put in before they are a money man (or woman). They own a larger share of the club than other fans and invest money because they want to (as opposed to donating). I'm not accusing you of being bankrolled, the crowds give you a far larger budget than most in your league and I get that. I just mean that the way it was done you came out financially a bit ahead as opposed to going for an initial full 100% fan owned model.

The FA didn't recognise you as the same club due to the failure to transfer the golden share or whatever it is called - this is what gives the club membership with the FA and since the assets you bought did not include membership of the FA then according to them when you register for membership you are a different club. Essentially because you have a different membership number. To me Darlington are a phoenix side. Different club but the same like many others such as Chester and Halifax. Your wording implied this is where you stood which was in contrast to some comments above and this made me curious.

The fact you were expelled from the conference before anything else is actually a big parallel with us. In fact because we hadn't gone under technically the Southern League had already agreed to accept us if we were able to run. I think the Northern Premier League would have been a bit more sensible. In hindsight it was stupid of the Southern League to say that, though it did give the club as it was a chance of surviving if the completely false lines about foreign investors had somehow turned out to be true. We were then mysteriously placed at step 6 (as opposed to 5 like pretty much every other side) by the FA... go figure that one out.

Unlike most phoenix sides we mostly seem to view ourselves as a different club. The same community, the same fans but a different club. That said the history is still ours because it is the precursor to where we are now, but the achievements of the old club do not belong to the new one - though the fans of the old club retain them.

With reference to other clubs it's worth remembering that Hereford are a similar model to yourselves, part fan-owned part private owners. I'm not certain on the likes of Halifax and Chester but I thought they were 100% fan owned. I think it's the way forwards for a proportion of non-league clubs as it is naturally far more sustainable, but I wouldn't suggest it's right for everyone or a "better" way. It's just better for us and that's what I care about. In terms of meeting up, I think the way things are going without some growth off the pitch we're going to peak at the regional conference level, but if you're content to wait there for a few years we might see you in the conference north (or whatever they decide to call it then!)

As for our chances, I'll get back in the Southern League thread shortly, we're playing away at Royston - who beat us home and away this season. If we win that we play away at either Egham, who beat us home and away, or St Ives, who we drew away with and beat at home. We've generally been consistent against the poor sides but not so good against the better ones. They say form goes out the window and past results don't matter in the playoffs - I really hope that's true! Honestly, we're underdogs. If we get through then we're underdogs in the final too. We could do it if we have a good day for each game, but I'd suggest we've got about a 10% chance of getting promotion.

Yes if we go up we'll be at step 3, which would be the Southern Premier for us currently - though current projections have Royston going to the Isthmian Premier so it's hard to say, Corby are projected for the NPLPD, though Kettering would be moved there before us. If we don't there's a very strong chance we are moved sideways to the Northern Premier League Division 1 South.

Trying to get somewhere close to back on track, I hope Ashton United win the playoffs in the NPLPD, a nice club we enjoyed a game against in the FA Cup. Surprised to see Barwell do much worse in the league than them, there seemed to be a class of difference between the two sides, but I guess we caught Ashton United on a bad day and potentially Barwell on some good ones. Can't see Barwell holding on to their best couple of players for too long.

 

[genesimmons]

Talk of likes of rushden, corby amd kettering in the northern premier is barmy. Traditionally clubs in this location, south of birmingham went in southern league.

 

[Jemfy]

Talk of likes of rushden, corby amd kettering in the northern premier is barmy. Traditionally clubs in this location, south of birmingham went in southern league.

Fans of all 3 clubs mentioned agree with you! It was only about 5 years back when Kettering being in the Conference North was a bit of an eye opener of how far down the country that division has travelled. Now there is no question that any of the three of us would be in the conference north should we get there, and with these clubs in the Northern Premier it means that only clubs further south can enter the conference north from below... I give it a maximum of 10 years until there is a shake up to address this. Possibly ending with someone inside the M25 being put in the conference north.

 

[genesimmons]

Fans of all 3 clubs mentioned agree with you! It was only about 5 years back when Kettering being in the Conference North was a bit of an eye opener of how far down the country that division has travelled. Now there is no question that any of the three of us would be in the conference north should we get there, and with these clubs in the Northern Premier it means that only clubs further south can enter the conference north from below... I give it a maximum of 10 years until there is a shake up to address this. Possibly ending with someone inside the M25 being put in the conference north.

Its down to fa. They want to come down hard on the northern league as the league has been ran by old gadgies over years who have no ambitions of takeing part in pyramid and the clubs are the same. Promotion needs to be enforced and eventually step 3 will be clubs north of birmigham. I remember a club near st albans way, bishops storford been in conf north, barmy

 

[Jemfy]

Its down to fa. They want to come down hard on the northern league as the league has been ran by old gadgies over years who have no ambitions of takeing part in pyramid and the clubs are the same. Promotion needs to be enforced and eventually step 3 will be clubs north of birmigham. I remember a club near st albans way, bishops storford been in conf north, barmy

While Bishop Stortford is an extreme case the fact is Gloucester City have been regulars in the Conference North for years. Brackley Town were in it this year. Oxford City have been in the Conference North in recent seasons regularly.

Forcing clubs to be promoted from the Northern League would only serve to maintain the problem, preventing it getting worse but not helping to fix it. A good fix would be to expand step 3 & 4 and promote a bunch of northern teams to facilitate this - not fair on southern teams who finish as highly and don't get promoted due to geography, but the best possible solution currently. Conference north and south would then sort themselves out somewhat over time.

Edit: This map has been posted on our forum of the projected step 3 divisions https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=zSECEvlWhaSk.k7SggA7td37I

 

[Darlofan97]

Money men are money men however much or little they put in, otherwise you end up in semantics over how much someone has to put in before they are a money man (or woman). They own a larger share of the club than other fans and invest money because they want to (as opposed to donating). I'm not accusing you of being bankrolled, the crowds give you a far larger budget than most in your league and I get that. I just mean that the way it was done you came out financially a bit ahead as opposed to going for an initial full 100% fan owned model.

The FA didn't recognise you as the same club due to the failure to transfer the golden share or whatever it is called - this is what gives the club membership with the FA and since the assets you bought did not include membership of the FA then according to them when you register for membership you are a different club. Essentially because you have a different membership number. To me Darlington are a phoenix side. Different club but the same like many others such as Chester and Halifax. Your wording implied this is where you stood which was in contrast to some comments above and this made me curious.

The fact you were expelled from the conference before anything else is actually a big parallel with us. In fact because we hadn't gone under technically the Southern League had already agreed to accept us if we were able to run. I think the Northern Premier League would have been a bit more sensible. In hindsight it was stupid of the Southern League to say that, though it did give the club as it was a chance of surviving if the completely false lines about foreign investors had somehow turned out to be true. We were then mysteriously placed at step 6 (as opposed to 5 like pretty much every other side) by the FA... go figure that one out.

Unlike most phoenix sides we mostly seem to view ourselves as a different club. The same community, the same fans but a different club. That said the history is still ours because it is the precursor to where we are now, but the achievements of the old club do not belong to the new one - though the fans of the old club retain them.

Sorry Jemfy, but I'm going to have to disagree with you on a number of points.

The club called Darlington 1883 now is the same club as Darlington Football Club, we are simply operating under a different playing name.

DFC1883Ltd took over Darlington Football Club from DFC2009Ltd. The assets and liabilities were transferred over, the liabilities related to that of Darlington Football Club (such as former players' wages) and not that of DFC2009Ltd (such of loans from previous owner Raj Singh). These liabilities were not transferred over due to the failure to agree to a CVA (due to Raj Singh's demands, even though we had funds in place).

The football club was set to be kicked out of the Conference and demoted to the Northern Premier League due to failing to arrange a CVA. However, former Chairman Raj Singh would not sign over the 'golden-share' which allowed the playing name to be Darlington Football Club, instead we had a re-apply for a brand-new 'golden-share' thus forcing the FA to view us as a new-club, despite DFC1883Ltd succesfully completing the takeover of the football club.

So as you can see, from the facts above you can clearly see we are the same football club, the club did not go 'bust'. If I called you, I don't know, Frealaf (don't know if I got his name right!) you would still be Jemfy deep-down wouldn't you? It's just a name that doesn't represent the legal situation of the takeover etc due to not having one certificate.

Regarding money-men in the club, I don't agree with that either. The club is currently owned 62% by DFC Supporters Group, soon hopefully to be 90% due to increased membership and 'private investors' (I.e; fans who has invested into shares into the club receiving no dividends) coverting their shares to DFCSG shares thus increasing DFCSG percentage of ownership. Then yes you could argue that DFC is owned 10% by private investors but this is just your regular fan that bought shares into the club. They only retain one vote as well I believe, regardless of the numbers of shares. The club is effectively owned fully by the fans.

 

[Jemfy]

Sorry Jemfy, but I'm going to have to disagree with you on a number of points.

The club called Darlington 1883 now is the same club as Darlington Football Club, we are simply operating under a different playing name.

DFC1883Ltd took over Darlington Football Club from DFC2009Ltd. The assets and liabilities were transferred over, the liabilities related to that of Darlington Football Club (such as former players' wages) and not that of DFC2009Ltd (such of loans from previous owner Raj Singh). These liabilities were not transferred over due to the failure to agree to a CVA (due to Raj Singh's demands, even though we had funds in place).

The football club was set to be kicked out of the Conference and demoted to the Northern Premier League due to failing to arrange a CVA. However, former Chairman Raj Singh would not sign over the 'golden-share' which allowed the playing name to be Darlington Football Club, instead we had a re-apply for a brand-new 'golden-share' thus forcing the FA to view us as a new-club, despite DFC1883Ltd succesfully completing the takeover of the football club.

So as you can see, from the facts above you can clearly see we are the same football club, the club did not go 'bust'. If I called you, I don't know, Frealaf (don't know if I got his name right!) you would still be Jemfy deep-down wouldn't you? It's just a name that doesn't represent the legal situation of the takeover etc due to not having one certificate.

Regarding money-men in the club, I don't agree with that either. The club is currently owned 62% by DFC Supporters Group, soon hopefully to be 90% due to increased membership and 'private investors' (I.e; fans who has invested into shares into the club receiving no dividends) coverting their shares to DFCSG shares thus increasing DFCSG percentage of ownership. Then yes you could argue that DFC is owned 10% by private investors but this is just your regular fan that bought shares into the club. They only retain one vote as well I believe, regardless of the numbers of shares. The club is effectively owned fully by the fans.

Are you saying you are more of the same club than say Chester or Halifax? I view you as about the same. Legally a different club, but really a continuation of the same one. We differ as while we are a continuation it's a less direct continuation in my opinion. I get all the stuff about paying off the debts, and it's highly commendable, but it doesn't make you more of the same club than any other phoenix side in my opinion. Just as (for instance) Leeds going through a CVA, paying almost none of their debts, doesn't make them a different club.

It's like AFC Wimbledon are the continuation of Wimbledon FC but not quite the same club. For most purposes they are, but there are some where they are not - as loathe as I am to admit it, for those few purposes Franchise FC are, yet at the same time Franchise FC are far less Wimbledon FC than AFC Wimbledon are.

You are currentlty 38% privately owned. Are those 38% of shares the same as the 62% held by the supporters trust/group? Otherwise the money men currently have a 30% say in what happens to the club, even if they defer their votes to concur with the supporters group. Those that own the 38% are money men until the time that they own 0% (or shares in the DFCSG). Until that time you are in a mixed model, I'm not calling it any better or any worse, but that's what it is - currently 62% fan owned.

Quick question - is the DFCSG a 1 share per person thing? Or are people able to have multiple shares (even if they only have one vote)?

I suspect we're approaching the point where we have to agree to disagree, but there are a few point here I'm curious on. Also as to if JE93 agrees or not?

 

[JE93]

As you say people will agree to disagree over this point. For me, as i said before i don't really care whether people feel one way or another. For me this is the same club i always supported so anything else is immaterial.

As for the DFCSG it works on a yearly membership of £25 (although you can donate any amount you like after that, but it will not entitle you to any more rights), membership entitles you to one vote. The shares owned by DFCSG are the same I believe as the ones owned by private individuals. Many private individuals have been transferring their share holding over to the DFCSG who will hopefully have a 90% holding in the club by the end of May.

 

[Darlofan97]

Are you saying you are more of the same club than say Chester or Halifax? I view you as about the same. Legally a different club, but really a continuation of the same one. We differ as while we are a continuation it's a less direct continuation in my opinion. I get all the stuff about paying off the debts, and it's highly commendable, but it doesn't make you more of the same club than any other phoenix side in my opinion. Just as (for instance) Leeds going through a CVA, paying almost none of their debts, doesn't make them a different club.

It's like AFC Wimbledon are the continuation of Wimbledon FC but not quite the same club. For most purposes they are, but there are some where they are not - as loathe as I am to admit it, for those few purposes Franchise FC are, yet at the same time Franchise FC are far less Wimbledon FC than AFC Wimbledon are.

You are currentlty 38% privately owned. Are those 38% of shares the same as the 62% held by the supporters trust/group? Otherwise the money men currently have a 30% say in what happens to the club, even if they defer their votes to concur with the supporters group. Those that own the 38% are money men until the time that they own 0% (or shares in the DFCSG). Until that time you are in a mixed model, I'm not calling it any better or any worse, but that's what it is - currently 62% fan owned.

Quick question - is the DFCSG a 1 share per person thing? Or are people able to have multiple shares (even if they only have one vote)?

I suspect we're approaching the point where we have to agree to disagree, but there are a few point here I'm curious on. Also as to if JE93 agrees or not?

Halifax and Chester went bust. Darlington FC didn't. Not saying we are more or less but those are the facts?

Legally we are the same club, it's company law. The FA having to view us as a new club/being legally the same club are two different things. The FA have to recognise us as a new club due to the golden share issue but legally we are the same club.

DFCSG members can own a number of shares, but only retain one vote. I believe that is also the case the fans who have invested into shares into DFC that make up the 32% 'private investors'. They have a say, yes, but what is most important is that DFCSG have the majority vote, and also that the private investors are just individual fans. I don't agree with the notion that we have 'money-men'. These private individuals invested capital to save the club in 2012 and do not contribute to propping the finances up in terms of being bank-rolled.

Hopefully we revert back to Darlington FC next year and avoid this new club nonsense. The club did not go bust.

 

[Southern Shayman]

Striker for hire in Conference North, played for Guisely, Alty, Harrogate, Bradford PA, Frickley and now Shaw Lane in the past few years.

An absolute weapon - that's what he is.

We tore up his contract (very early in) to allow him to join full time football at Darlo. When they subsequently went pop he promised to come back to us, before giving backword and went to Guiseley.

 

[Southern Shayman]

Halifax and Chester went bust. Darlington FC didn't. Not saying we are more or less but those are the facts?

Legally we are the same club, it's company law. The FA having to view us as a new club/being legally the same club are two different things. The FA have to recognise us as a new club due to the golden share issue but legally we are the same club.

DFCSG members can own a number of shares, but only retain one vote. I believe that is also the case the fans who have invested into shares into DFC that make up the 32% 'private investors'. They have a say, yes, but what is most important is that DFCSG have the majority vote, and also that the private investors are just individual fans. I don't agree with the notion that we have 'money-men'. These private individuals invested capital to save the club in 2012 and do not contribute to propping the finances up in terms of being bank-rolled.

Hopefully we revert back to Darlington FC next year and avoid this new club nonsense. The club did not go bust.

The club holding the golden share went bust, that's all that matters. Regardless of stripping assets to a different shell company - which is a definition of what you did.

Otherwise every club could do it, strip assets to a different shell, let that go bust and then have no debts left in the main club. Whether you did it with good intentions and paid back the creditors or not - thems the rules.

Like you say, it doesn't matter to yourselves - but I'll have none of this "we're less reformed than you" willy waving