Football Finances

[George Reilly's Hairpiece]

Taking this out of the Confirmed Transfers thread...

As a supporter, how much interest or understanding do you have of your club's financial position and those of other clubs you are competing with?

Are you of the view that you can't do much about it so no point worrying, or do you want to know so you can understand why you spend what you do, or more to the point, don't spend?

For those that do take an interest, what bill of health would you give to your team?

 

[miagsygas]

I can only speak for myself in this regards:

I probably should think more about it. But many better placed than I have tried to sort things out at our club at board level and got nowhere. Quite frankly, in my opinion, i do have slight concerns but thoroughly lie in the I can't do much so no point worrying. If things go south after the court case with Sainsbury's my mind may change. Perhaps that makes me a bad fan.

At playing level, our finances (despite being in debt, undoubted) don't seem to take a hit. So maybe i'm naive but I don't believe us to be severly in trouble, but things have been reigned in slightly (for the better may I add).

I would love for us to be a fully self sufficent football club, unfortunately after years of mismanagement from the board that doesn't seem likely unless the ground gets sorted. It's not right, but it seems like the majority do have levels of debt. I believe that as a club in a good sized city, if thing would go poorly in finance people would be willing to step in, the guy who ended up buying Oxford was very, very close to putting pen to paper here first, the board have kept people out because they want a payoff from the stadium but if that doesn't go well I'm pretty sure they'll sell the club, until then they'll be funding it from their own pockets.

I'm not too fussed about financials of other clubs. I'm not big on clubs who are hugely financially backed despite tiny crowds but I don't quite have the hard-on that some fans on here have for them. Apart from that, I don't think money is the be all and end all in the search for winning things, look at the level we got to, that wasn't due to cutting costs.

 

[BigDaveCUFC]

Carlisle is I'd think in a decent position, but it was fragile as it usually is with smaller clubs. Our biggest positive I suppose is being one of a handful of clubs owned by businessmen who are fans also.

we own our own ground which is a rare thing thesedays, we had 2 lots of debt, one to our previous owner Story and one to our current owner Jenkins, the story money was waived off 6 months ago which removed £1 million debt and Jenkins was about to waive off the rest meaning no debt at all but that has stalled with this ridiculous 'investor' talks. a positive is Jenkins has been owner since the 70's and is a die hard fan so you can wipe that debt off regardless.

So as a club we owe nothing to no one, own our ground and are comfortable, but 2 different situations will happen this summer which will change our club and not sure which yet will happen.

A: currently Carlisle fan is currently negotiating to take over club with afew local businessmen from Carlisle and the North-east I'd guess, all not megarich but all with some money who will just invest small clumps each so club gets £1 million plus cash boost to try and make the club more appealing on and off field it will also remove the current MD, owner and director which fans have become sick off

B: The current talk of course of a rich investor wanting to put in a lot of money over afew years to do who knows........it is just classed a mystery at present.

the stability is the first option as it is again local people and fans of the club, the other option could be a very rich person pushing the club up the league ladder but risks taking club our of hands of people who do care about the club.

 

[mtfc26]

Personally I hope for a balanced view I'm not naive enough to think we will get absolute full disclosure across the board because what kind of normal company would do this. But at the same time we don't want to be treated like mushrooms either.

You will always get the usual bit from your rivals about going bust, too much debt etc etc but in the modern age you also have to have a bit of faith.

From a Stags viewpoint and this is only my viewpoint I am quite happy at the moment. When Radford came in he splashed a lot of cash partly through naivety and partly to haul us out of the conference and in all fairness he achieved it. He soon realised we had to build rather than throw cash and we now have a much stronger commercial footing and the youth setup is being massively upgraded as we move to a more sustainable model. We have 3-5 homegrown lads who could step up this year.

Having to buy the ground back from the pure evil that is one of our previous owners is a pain but one we are dealing with. Overall its nice to see positive efforts being made, they don't always get it right (our new season ticket deals have been widely questioned) but then no company will please all of its customers all of the time.

So generally happy with a club looking to the future and building a club.

 

[BigDaveCUFC]

oh and on my personal view, I am only interested in us being around L1/L2 with a possible chance of Champ and a possible threat of conference. I don't therefore need a big spending coming in turning us into some corporate sideshow for on pitch gain. I'd been ashamed had we done a Cardiff or what may happen at Hull turning club into an owners business.

but I do realize is nothing can be done about it and frankly you only moan when you stop winning, you turn blind eyes to everything from a cr*p owner when winning then suddenly bring all their faults up when you don't.

 

[huddsmoose]

I'm mildly interested as it gives an indicator as to which clubs are over/under achieving.

I'd say that Cambridge's finances are as strong as they have been in the 20 odd years I've followed the club. Money has openly stated he expects to challenge for a top 7 place and we're obviously spending big to realise that.

A big boost in attendances last year probably makes it difficult to plan; was it a single season spike in celebration of our long awaited return to the FL or are those fans here to stay? Our attendances certainly shrank massively during 9 years in non-league, so maybe a decent number of people only want to watch a league club?

I think this is a massive year for CUFC. Progress with planning for the stadium and relative success on the pitch will probably mean attendances hold up and all will be Rosey.

A year of struggle will lead to a drop in attendances whilst we have at least a few players on expensive two years deals.

But, if it all goes norks up we still have to Man U cash in reserve to bail us out.

 

[Trapdoor]

Being Trust owned we cannot afford to lose money, we are constrained to live within our means. The equation is quite simple:

Gate receipts + Trust donations + advertising and corporate revenue + windfall = wages + overheads + playing budget + youth development + savings for project work


There are some highly variable factors in there obviously but others are well known and easy to predict so your final budget weighting should reflect that.

Gate Receipts - some variance, set annual budget plan at low end of prediction, monitor trend.
Trust Donations - mainly fixed income based on annual membership numbers, some addition on top in form of extra donation or extra specific focus drive e.g. 1931 funding
Advertising/Corporate revenue - variable outside of multi-year advertising contracts, largest upside scope
Windfall - highly variable and highly inconsistent. e.g. £1.75m for Matt Grimes
Wages - very well known
Overheads - well known
Playing budget - variable (dependent on all other factors), high priority
Youth Development budget - somewhat variable, significantly lower cost than player budget so less variable
Project work - fixed cost or variable surplus accrual for future years fixed costs low priority

Playing Budget, Youth budget and Surplus are the objective factors you want to know, wages, overheads and surplus are the factors you control.

 

[Aber gas]

Ideally I'd like us to be fan owned and run sustainablely but like a lot of fans I also want exciting signings and success . The world of football finance seems so complicated to me with so many variables which don't apply to other businesses that I struggle to understand my own clubs finances

 

[Look Out There Are Llamas]

I take interest in our finances (and other teams actually), always have.

We're kinda fucked if Becchetti pulls out.

*When I say kinda fucked, I mean totally and utterly royally screwed.

 

[mtfc26]

So Trapdoor if you are a trust member and effectively a shareholder do you get to see more granular detail or do you just have good faith in your nominated officers at the club?

 

[Trapdoor]

I have limited faith and don't get to see a whole lot... but then again I don't look particularly hard.
You can see our annual audited trust accounts online every year though.

http://ecfcst.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/ECST-Draft-Accounts-2014.pdf

 

[Murphy]

Our finances are generally well known to most I'd imagine, we're pretty easy going in telling everyone that we're generally fairly skint. Plus we have the forums bi-yearly so we always get an update.

From what I remember we stand to gain a loss this financial year as our budget was slightly higher this season, although that's levelled out by the fact we made a profit last season as a result of the Gayle overspill money so over the course of the last two years we've broken even. Could realy do with a decent cup run though next season to make a bit otherwise we may make another loss in the season coming.

We always live within our means though, obviously.

 

[BeesKnees]

I probably look too much into our finances. Being effectively owned by one man and knowing fans have little say in the direction of the club makes me nervous. I like to know we aren't about to disappear down the pan because that one man has problems elsewhere.
Our set up is probably different to most as Barnet football club is a subsidiary of a group and has no real income itself. The Hive is run as a business and as far as anyone can tell the football club is allocated a budget based on the performance of the Hive group.

TK is definitely building an empire at the Hive with the aim of pushing the club forwards. Finances continue to show year on year profit but also an increase in loans to fund the building work that's taking place. It seems to me that our owner has pulled off some notable deals to the benefit of the organisation including the Toshiba medical centre and sponsorship.
Just a shame this couldn't happen in Barnet, there was sufficient space but not the support from the Council who are happy to see Underhill replaced by a free school.