Full Time Or Part Time?

[Quakerz]

I've just been having a read of some of the threads on here - it's been a looooong time since I've been able to look at discussions regarding Conference Premier football after what happened to us. Obviously with Darlo being dumped in the Northern League 3 seasons ago I kind of lost interest in it because we were so far below the level it was irrelevant.

Anyhow, things never change do they...we had Stockport struggling and getting relegated, and then the Hereford scenario...now I'm reading threads regarding potential cash flow problems at Lincoln, Torquay, Kidderminster - have I missed any out? Now we have the Gateshead chairman wanting to wrap in.

I'm not really up on most of the latest but being a follower of a now part time club, the thing that strikes me is why are so many clubs trying to be full time without the football league money? For me I can't see how the sums can add up if gates are less than 3,000.

When Darlo get back to the conference, as a fan run club with no financial backers, I can't see how we can become full time, I fully expect us to remain part time like Chester, Telford and Halifax did. Makes complete sense. Obviously that puts us at a disadvantage compared to full time clubs, but I really can't believe that there are more than a handful of full time clubs anyway, or at least there shouldn't be!

As of now, just to satisfy my curiosity...

Which clubs in this league nowadays are currently part time (or a hybrid of full and part time)?

How many fans think it would be good for their clubs to revert to part time? We all have to survive after all.

Final thought - if more full time clubs took the part time plunge, there would be less to worry about regarding being disadvantaged if most other clubs were part time - like in the first few seasons of promotion and relegation between the conference and league.

 

[Master D]

We are full-time obviously and the board have said a hundred times that we will never change that, I would not support changing to PT anyway. I think if you are a proper ex-league club with decent gates but then change to PT then it is something of an acceptance that this is now your level. We can cope within our means down here well enough as a full time club and still have a budget to compete for the top 5 each year and if we do ever get up then the board say we would be in a very decent position financially with the extra money FL brings. Getting out of this division is the Everest as everyone knows.

Long time no see by the way.

 

[Quakerz]

Now then, long time no see indeed.

The thing is, Wrexham can count on gates of 3,000+ week in week out, season after season, as can the likes of Grimsby, Bristol Rovers - if I was a fan of any of those clubs I would think the same as you, full time, end of, no need to change. Most clubs in this league though, including many ex league clubs, get less or much less than this, and it was those fans the question was aimed at really.

 

[Harrier94]

Our board have said we will remain FT but after a disaster of a season we should have changed to PT

 

[George Reilly's Hairpiece]

We stayed full time, but that was because we had the increased revenues from The Hive to prop up what would be seen, probably rightly, as disappointing gates.

The play-offs have changed things when it comes to the decision whether to remain full time or go part time. If we were still back in the days of only one up, I would imagine that apart from any bankrolled club, the rest would all be part time.

Back in the eighties and nineties there was a pool of really talented part time players. Not sure whether that pool is as big as it used to be.

 

[Habbinalan]

Barrow AFC are moving from part-time to full-time and will be training at the more accessible Lancaster University.

 

[Gassy]

Just out of curiosity, are Woking and Dover PT?

 

[Quakerz]

We stayed full time, but that was because we had the increased revenues from The Hive to prop up what would be seen, probably rightly, as disappointing gates.

The play-offs have changed things when it comes to the decision whether to remain full time or go part time. If we were still back in the days of only one up, I would imagine that apart from any bankrolled club, the rest would all be part time.

Back in the eighties and nineties there was a pool of really talented part time players. Not sure whether that pool is as big as it used to be.

There will still be the same pool of really talented part time players except half of them will now be full time.

I remember when Darlo came down to the conference in 89/90, we didn't half throw some money at that season, and we remained full time (gates were often around 4,000 so arguably it was affordable), we were the only full time team. We had a great season and won the title but Barnet pushed us all the way, only finishing 2 points behind, not bad for a part time team. But we hardly walked the league considering the other 23 clubs were part time - it was tough, very tough.

 

[Quakerz]

Barrow AFC are moving from part-time to full-time and will be training at the more accessible Lancaster University.

Did I read somewhere that they've got some sugar daddy now? If so, then that's how they can afford to be full time.

 

[Sparrow]

We're part-time. Doesn't really make a difference when you have a good manager.

 

[BeesKnees]

I get the impression that there are different flavours of part-time. Some have full time managers, some train more than others or during the day which suggests the players maybe classed as part-time but receiving a wage close to a full time wage.

Is this a reasonable impression?

 

[Luke Imp]

We are full-time obviously and the board have said a hundred times that we will never change that, I would not support changing to PT anyway. I think if you are a proper ex-league club with decent gates but then change to PT then it is something of an acceptance that this is now your level. We can cope within our means down here well enough as a full time club and still have a budget to compete for the top 5 each year and if we do ever get up then the board say we would be in a very decent position financially with the extra money FL brings. Getting out of this division is the Everest as everyone knows.

Long time no see by the way.

As above. Our Board have said the same, too. I think it'd prove difficult to move back to FT from PT. Plus, when was the last time a PT side got promoted to the FL? It's not something that happens often, if at all.

This season we averaged around the 2,700 mark, so we'd be ok if we had a half decent season for a change.

Good to hear from you, Q.

 

[Railway Blue]

We went from training 2 nights a week to 3 daytime training sessions, so we are half way between the two.

 

[Luke Imp]

I get the impression that their are different flavours of part-time. Some have full time managers, some train more than others or during the day which suggests the players maybe classed as part-time but receiving a wage close to a full time wage.

Is this a reasonable impression?

Yep, think so.

Hyde, for example, last season trained two evenings a week. Southport last season under Coleman changed from evenings to 2 mornings and an afternoon or vice versa.

 

[George Reilly's Hairpiece]

I remember when Darlo came down to the conference in 89/90, we didn't half throw some money at that season, and we remained full time (gates were often around 4,000 so arguably it was affordable), we were the only full time team. We had a great season and won the title but Barnet pushed us all the way, only finishing 2 points behind, not bad for a part time team. But we hardly walked the league considering the other 23 clubs were part time - it was tough, very tough.

Darlo were more professional than us, and not just because of the full time status. Did a real number on us in the title decider and completely snuffed out an attack that had created and scored at will for most of the season.

Those two teams would easily have held their own in any incarnation of the league to date.

 

[Quakerz]

As above. Our Board have said the same, too. I think it'd prove difficult to move back to FT from PT. Plus, when was the last time a PT side got promoted to the FL? It's not something that happens often, if at all.

.

Yes but, if 19/20 of the 24 sides were part time - as they would/should be all things being equal - then part time clubs getting promoted wouldn't be all that rare.

I think the last ones were Aldershot and Accrington?

 

[Quakerz]

Darlo were more professional than us, and not just because of the full time status. Did a real number on us in the title decider and completely snuffed out an attack that had created and scored at will for most of the season.

Those two teams would easily have held their own in any incarnation of the league to date.

That Barnet team was very good. Yep we did a number on you, on my 18th birthday as well - what a way to celebrate becoming a man. Unfortunately I was unable to go to that match and had to do with watching the match preview on Saint and Greavsie in a bar, then a nervous wait for the results.

 

[rudebwoyben]

That match at Underhill was on a really hot spring day, the same day as the infamous Poll Tax demo/police brutality.
Darlo put in a very professional and slick performance against U.S. and were worthy winners.
Dover are part-time as well.

 

[Southern Shayman]

In response to the OP I believe the following clubs were part time this season:

Dover
Woking
Halifax
Chester
Braintree
Altrincham
Southport
Welling
Alfreton
Telford
Dartford
Nuneaton

As you say some of those are slight variations. We had a full time manager and we had 2 evenings, 1 morning training system with players making minimum of 2. We've now scrapped that this season and gone back to 2 evenings only.

To suggest there's no difference as Sparrow does is complete bollocks IMO. That's reflected in the fact that ourselves are the only part time team in god knows how many years to reach the play offs - and we'd just run out of legs by that point.

That being said, I think clubs are definitely better off on a good part time budget than a very low full time budget. Best off picking the cream of part time players than the scraps of the full time.

 

[Shotsfan1993]

We're full time, and if we have any hopes of getting back to the football league we need to remain full time. Andy Scott's decision to not train on Fridays killed our season this season (as soon as we went back to training every day under Barker our performances improved considerably, especially as games went on)

 

[Sparrow]

Andy Scott's decision to not train on Fridays killed our season this season

I don't think this was entirely the reason why you finished 18th.

 

[Quakerz]

We're full time, and if we have any hopes of getting back to the football league we need to remain full time. Andy Scott's decision to not train on Fridays killed our season this season (as soon as we went back to training every day under Barker our performances improved considerably, especially as games went on)

Were you part time last time you got promoted from the conference?

 

[Shotsfan1993]

I don't think this was entirely the reason why you finished 18th.

Not the whole reason but it certainly played a big part, the amount of goals we conceded in the last 15 minutes under Scott was ridiculous!

Were you part time last time you got promoted from the conference?

No we were full time. The only season we were part time in the conference was our first season in 2003/04, and I believe we have got the closest any part time side has ever got to being promoted into the league (lost the playoff final on penalties)

 

[slaphead]

No we were full time. The only season we were part time in the conference was our first season in 2003/04, and I believe we have got the closest any part time side has ever got to being promoted into the league (lost the playoff final on penalties)

Burton were part-time when they got promoted.

 

[Shotsfan1993]

Burton were part-time when they got promoted.

For some reason I always forget about Burton. Apologies for my incorrect statement although I do still believe we need to be full time if we want to get back into the league.

 

[Bluandwite]

Now then, long time no see indeed.

The thing is, Wrexham can count on gates of 3,000+ week in week out, season after season, as can the likes of Grimsby, Bristol Rovers - if I was a fan of any of those clubs I would think the same as you, full time, end of, no need to change. Most clubs in this league though, including many ex league clubs, get less or much less than this, and it was those fans the question was aimed at really.

Not really, Wrexham probably had more gates less than 3,000 than above it this season, their average this season is inflated by that anniversary game with Grimsby, they had one below 2,000 too.

We've definitely seen a difference this season training three mornings a week instead of two evenings from last season, whether we'd gain more of an advantage on the pitch from proper full time, I'm sceptical to be honest.

 

[F Side Rat]

Burton were part-time when they got promoted.

And if the rumours are true that they have signed Joey Suk then they have now regressed to complete amateurs!!!!

 

[appletablepenny]

Did I read somewhere that they've got some sugar daddy now? If so, then that's how they can afford to be full time.

Yes they have. He took over just before the season just gone.

 

[B2TF]

I've just been having a read of some of the threads on here - it's been a looooong time since I've been able to look at discussions regarding Conference Premier football after what happened to us. Obviously with Darlo being dumped in the Northern League 3 seasons ago I kind of lost interest in it because we were so far below the level it was irrelevant.

Anyhow, things never change do they...we had Stockport struggling and getting relegated, and then the Hereford scenario...now I'm reading threads regarding potential cash flow problems at Lincoln, Torquay, Kidderminster - have I missed any out? Now we have the Gateshead chairman wanting to wrap in.

I'm not really up on most of the latest but being a follower of a now part time club, the thing that strikes me is why are so many clubs trying to be full time without the football league money? For me I can't see how the sums can add up if gates are less than 3,000.

When Darlo get back to the conference, as a fan run club with no financial backers, I can't see how we can become full time, I fully expect us to remain part time like Chester, Telford and Halifax did. Makes complete sense. Obviously that puts us at a disadvantage compared to full time clubs, but I really can't believe that there are more than a handful of full time clubs anyway, or at least there shouldn't be!

As of now, just to satisfy my curiosity...

Which clubs in this league nowadays are currently part time (or a hybrid of full and part time)?

How many fans think it would be good for their clubs to revert to part time? We all have to survive after all.

Final thought - if more full time clubs took the part time plunge, there would be less to worry about regarding being disadvantaged if most other clubs were part time - like in the first few seasons of promotion and relegation between the conference and league.

I've been saying this over and over, all clubs in the Conference should be part time. Ourselves and Woking have shown part time clubs can out perform full time ones. Look at Lincoln and Wrexham, both full time and both absolute jokes on the field. What a waste of money. Weren't Stockport full time when they were relegated? I'd go so far as to suggest that if it wasn't for bastards like the blokes at Eastleigh and Forest Green being allowed to throw millions at Mickey Mouse outfits, even clubs like Bristol and Luton would have gone part time in this league. As it is they have to stretch their budgets to compete with these bankrolled clubs that are killing the non league game. More great clubs will go to the wall unless somebody puts a stop to this madness.

 

[Habbinalan]

Did I read somewhere that they've got some sugar daddy now? If so, then that's how they can afford to be full time.

The new owner, Paul Casson, is Barrow lad who made good in telecoms in Texas. His dad worked in the shipyard and he went to Barrow Grammar School. He still has an active role in his business. His wife was at Lowestoft but he had to be on a plane back to Dallas on the Friday.

http://www.barrowafc.com/director/paul-casson/

If you want a money man, he seems to be as near ideal as you could wish for in terms of motivation and connection - a bit like our own Paul Barry, who's patience and dedication underpins our current resurgence.