General Election 2015

[The Paranoid Pineapple]

Having checked, the LDs are standing after all. Although their candidate has only 50 or so followers on Twitter and says he's going to encourage LDs in Putney to campaign in other constituencies where the LDs have a better chance.

I think we can expect a lost deposit.

I'm very unsure of how to vote. If the LD vote collapses it'll be interesting to see how many of those voters turn out and who they opt for. If the majority of the 7,000 go for Labour then it's not impossible there could be a genuine fight on.

Part of me is tempted by Labour. Turfing a Tory out would be good and the mansion tax is a good landmark policy. But they're still not substantively different in most areas. And the EU and tuition fees policies are both stupid. Gah. Dunno. I'm there to be swayed during the campaign I guess.

I've never lived in a Lab-Con battleground constituency, though have often always wondered how I might vote if I did. It is, admittedly, a bit of a tricky one. On the one hand, I wouldn't generally wish to endorse the Labour party and the path they've pursued for the past twenty years. On the other, I do still find them significantly more palatable than the Tories (the cumulative effect, perhaps, of being slightly less evil in a lot of different policy areas). Hell, once in a blue moon they'll even demonstrate that they remain capable of adopting a progressive position on an issue. I think the main trouble I would have is that, whatever the limitations of the other parties, the idea of unseating a Conservative always seems like too good an opportunity to forego...

 

[Alty]

Confirmation that there will be no debates other than the one 7 party affair because Cameron is refusing to take part. There are going to be audience Q+As instead.

Load of absolute crap. Broadcasters have fucked up.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Should have just had a four party debate without him. Do not see the point of having two parties in there that have absolutely no intention of governing the UK in the first place.

 

[Alty]

Tory Party candidate suspended this morning btw. Alleged to have made a deal with the EDL: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32005848

 

[silkyman]

I was just going to put that story on here.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...e-mosque-with-former-edl-leader-10125388.html

Surely that sort of shenanigans is illegal?

 

[silkyman]

Should have just had a four party debate without him. Do not see the point of having two parties in there that have absolutely no intention of governing the UK in the first place.

Should have left him as an empty chair.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

I was just going to put that story on here.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...e-mosque-with-former-edl-leader-10125388.html

Surely that sort of shenanigans is illegal?

I'm sure actually trying to incite serious ethno-religious tensions like this for political gain will see no police action, yet they'll happily arrest a 15 year old girl for burning a Qur'an and posting it on Facebook.

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

I was just going to put that story on here.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...e-mosque-with-former-edl-leader-10125388.html

Surely that sort of shenanigans is illegal?

Should be and probably is.

Mind you, that mainstream politicians are willing to secretly collude with fascists shouldn't surprise anyone. Interesting that "Tommy Robinson" is still heavily involved with fascist politics though despite his supposed road-to-Damascus conversion.

Guessing he's sensed the change in political climate and realised he's got better prospects going back out on the streets these days.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Since when is Tommy Robinson a fascist?

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

Since when is Tommy Robinson a fascist?

6/10 derail there. As you no doubt are aware, the definition of fascist is hopelessly vague and there are relatively few common components of even self-described fascist groups.

But the ideology of the EDL clearly chimes quite closely with some of the core components of fascism and neo-fascism - for example, saving the nation from a threat liberal democracy is unable to counter; traditionalism and support for traditional elites (e.g. the armed forces, monarchy); scapegoating of the other; organising as a street movement - using tactics calculated to provoke violent disorder.

If it quacks like a duck it's a duck and the EDL quack like Donald Duck in that 1943 Walt Disney propaganda cartoon.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

I don't mean to derail the thread any more than you do, I just find it a comically over-the-top accusation. I'd say the EDL don't meet even the vaguest definitions of fascism, not unless you're willing to lump half the parties in England with them too. They're certainly far less authoritarian than many of their opponents, UAF for example.

If it quacks like a duck it's a duck [...]

dat non sequitur

 

[Alty]

So David Cameron has said he wouldn't serve a third term. Odd timing. Is this the Tories' Granita Pact, I wonder? Perhaps he's asked May/Johnson not to challenge him on the basis that he promises to go by 2020?

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

So David Cameron has said he wouldn't serve a third term. Odd timing. Is this the Tories' Granita Pact, I wonder? Perhaps he's asked May/Johnson not to challenge him on the basis that he promises to go by 2020?

It's so that when he doesn't give us the promised referendum, the Tories can blame it on him and not the party.

 

[Alty]

It's so that when he doesn't give us the promised referendum, the Tories can blame it on him and not the party.

Interesting theory. It'd be a brave move to deny a referendum though. That'd be the u-turn to end all u-turns. A step up from the LDs on tuition fees.

If they were to back away from a referendum I'd have thought they'd blame it on the fact they're in coalition. Mind you, the LDs are talking about supporting a Government on a confidence and supply basis only. In which case, and in the absence of a formal coalition agreement, there would be no excuse really. UKIP + DUP + 10-20 Eurosceptic Labour MPs should be enough to carry a Tory motion in the Commons.

Really intriguing time in British politics, this. It's a shame the parties are all shite.

 

[The Paranoid Pineapple]

It's a bit of a strange, and oddly timed announcement, isn't it? For one thing, he hasn't yet won a second term and isn't necessarily likely to, so it looks rather presumptuous/arrogant on his part. But I also fail to understand why you'd introduce this element of uncertainty in the run up to a GE, especially when polls indicate that the PM is more popular than the party he leads. Weird.

 

[Tilbury]

The prospect of Boris or Osborne leading the country is very worrying.

 

[SUTSS]

The prospect of May is worse.

 

[Alty]

The prospect of May is worse.

How so? She's the least bonkers/creepy.

 

[SUTSS]

How so? She's the least bonkers/creepy.

Maybe less creepy but she still be horrific.

Her opposition to the Human Rights Act being a big part of that. But she has also followed a number of barmy ideas to get immigration down (regardless of whether you think immigration should come down) like reducing student visas and removing the rights of foreign born graduates.

I don't think Cameron's conservatives really deserve the tag of 'nasty party' but May's would.

 

[Techno Natch]

Yeah May is a nasty woman, she would love to see Human rights buried completely and has no problem using the word "terrorist" to convince people that human rights are a bad thing. She's nasty but so are the others. I'd rather have Cameron than any of them I think.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Imagine Boris. We'd know how the Americans felt under Bush.

 

[TheArtfulDodger]

Imagine Boris. We'd know how the Americans felt under Bush.

You'd like to think the British public would decide when it came down to it, that he's too much of an oaf to be leading the country. Not just an oaf but a man who has been directly implicated in trying to have journalists violently intimidated or attacked.

Then again I thought the same of Londonders, and they voted him in.

 

[Alty]

Not sure May is particularly nasty (for a Tory). Home Secretary is basically the worst job going because there's so much potential for scandal/embarrassment in the areas of immigration, crime and terorrism. Had she been Foreign Sec she could have gallivanted round Africa with Angelia Jolie and left the shitty stuff to someone else.

 

[SALTIRE]

 

[Red]

Imagine Boris. We'd know how the Americans felt under Bush.

The dangerous thing about politicians like Johnson and Bush is that they're more widely perceived as bumbling comedy figures of fun than neo-liberal zealouts.

 

[Spear]

 

[Alty]

The slight flaw with that is that the complete opposite is true. Labour pledged NOT to raise national insurance.

 

[TheArtfulDodger]

Even with the full weight of the Tory press behind them, the Tories are still not going to win an election against the supposedly unelectable Miliband. That's over 30 years now. A cosy up to their natural rat bretheren in UKIP beckons.

 

[Modernist]

More nonsense from spear. Maybe I'll make some untrue posters and post them on here, oh no I have better things to do.
surprise suprise William Hague cowardly attack on the speaker. Typical Tory.

 

[Spear]