General Election 2015

[Gashead]

I have no idea how you got to that conclusion, I said politics are central and they need someone more like Blair to get back on track...how the hell does that mean vote Tory? Sensationalism much? It is tiresome in this thread frankly.

He was the most right wing leader Labour have ever had. The idea that someone of his 'New Labour' stance would be the answer to the problems of this country is frankly laughable.

 

[TractorBoys]

You're acting like you haven't presented your opinions as facts in here as well?

I've commented on the conservatives winning a majority , that's fact. Anything else I've consistently said is my opinion (and when I've commented on the NHS I've spoken with fact and quotes (unlike most in here today unfortunately), it's the complete adamant nature of the Labour voters ITT that think a travesty has occurred that makes me bite.

Your opinions aren't fact anymore so than mine, but what is fact is that the more common view is that Tory was the right vote at this election.

There hasn't been a great travesty, or a miscarriage of justice - we've got the scenario that the most amount of people voted for. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Pagnell]

I've commented on the conservatives winning a majority , that's fact.

No, you said views like those held by Tilbury are a minority, which isn't the same thing at all, especially when the Tories polled at 37%. But thanks to this country insisting on sticking with FPTP, it's enough to form a majority government.

 

[TractorBoys]

No, you said views like those held by Tilbury are a minority, which isn't the same thing at all, especially when the Tories polled at 37%. But thanks to this country insisting on sticking with FPTP, it's enough to form a majority government.

OK, fair point, let me rephrase that.

More people, by a considerable margin, wanted this outcome. Democracy 101.

 

[Tilbury]

And I haven't stated otherwise. They got the most votes and seats so form the government. That doesn't mean I don't think a grave mistake happened yesterday though.

 

[Techno Natch]

You're acting like you haven't presented your opinions as facts in here as well?

To be fair he hasn't actually presented any real opinions on Conservative policy beyond saying Labour messed up the economy and will do it again Ifrom what I've seen.

I'd be interested in what the attraction to the Tories is as I've not really seen many people mention spacific things. Would love to see something beyond economics.

(Sorry TB if you have and I missed it.)

 

[Cardsfan]

I've commented on the conservatives winning a majority , that's fact. Anything else I've consistently said is my opinion (and when I've commented on the NHS I've spoken with fact and quotes (unlike most in here today unfortunately), it's the complete adamant nature of the Labour voters ITT that think a travesty has occurred that makes me bite.

Your opinions aren't fact anymore so than mine, but what is fact is that the more common view is that Tory was the right vote at this election.

There hasn't been a great travesty, or a miscarriage of justice - we've got the scenario that the most amount of people voted for. Nothing more, nothing less.

Those who disagree with the Conservatives and their policies can reasonably call it a travesty, the fact that more people voted for them doesn't remove the feeling or idea that it is a mistake/bad news for this country.

 

[TractorBoys]

To be fair he hasn't actually presented any real opinions on Conservative policy beyond saying Labour messed up the economy and will do it again Ifrom what I've seen.

I'd be interested in what the attraction to the Tories is as I've not really seen many people mention spacific things. Would love to see something beyond economics.

(Sorry TB if you have and I missed it.)

For me, without question the driving factor is the economy however a very close second is their small business policy and commitment to supporting entrepreneurs. It can be argued that the former and the latter are intrinsically linked.

So my reasoning is twofold one for me personally and one aimed more at the overall well-being of the country's future.

Selfishly - Small Business/Entrepreneurs
For the greater good: Economy

 

[AFCB_Mark]

The Snoopers' charter is almost certainly one of them. What a steaming pile of shit that is.

This was one exanple that really pleased me with the lib dems tempering down Tory policy I disagree with, which I imagine will now pass at some point.

 

[Techno Natch]

For me, without question the driving factor is the economy however a very close second is their small business policy and commitment to supporting entrepreneurs. It can be argued that the former and the latter are intrinsically linked.

So my reasoning is twofold one for me personally and one aimed more at the overall well-being of the country's future.

Selfishly - Small Business/Entrepreneurs
For the greater good: Economy

That's pretty much the opposite to what I care about which is fair enough really!

We'll see what happens anyway. I'm quite interested in just how evil the conservatives can go in pursuit of a strong economy for all.

I'll probably be an anarchist by the time the next election comes along.

 

[Veggie Legs]

Earlier I worked out how many seats each party would have if they were proportional to vote share, it makes for a very different picture.

Con 240
Lab 198
UKIP 82
LD 51
SNP 31
Green 25
PC 4
DUP 4
SF 4
UUP 3
SDLP 2
Others 6

 

[TractorBoys]

UKIP 82
There are some definite benefits behind the current system, then.

 

[Stee]

He was the most right wing leader Labour have ever had. The idea that someone of his 'New Labour' stance would be the answer to the problems of this country is frankly laughable.

I agree, I didn't say it would be the answer to the countries problems, what I said was if Labour want to get in again thats where they need to go.

So poor people don't work hard?

Didn't say that either...would appreciate it if people didn't put words in my mouth.

 

[Alty]

Tristram Hunt saying some interesting stuff about Labour's need to incorporate national and regional identity into their appeal, as well as admitting that for many working class people a vote for UKIP makes sense given the lack of benefit they've seen from globalisation.

Labour have to treat this as an opportunity to fundamentally reevaluate. If they do, there may be hope for us all yet.

 

[Super_horns]

What is the timescale for new leaders to be voted in?

Read Farage is going to re-apply for re-election in September anyway.

How do the Lib Dems re-build with just 8 (think that must have been beyond their worse nightmares!)

 

[TheArtfulDodger]

Tristram Hunt saying some interesting stuff about Labour's need to incorporate national and regional identity into their appeal, as well as admitting that for many working class people a vote for UKIP makes sense given the lack of benefit they've seen from globalisation.

Labour have to treat this as an opportunity to fundamentally reevaluate. If they do, there may be hope for us all yet.

Labour's real problem is Scotland, it's been wiped out in its heartland and that's because Labour are not really discernible from Tories. Add on the scare tactics of the Tories regarding the SNP influence coupled with the collapse of the Lib Dems in Tory marginals, then we see the election result. This is not the time for Labour to revert to Tory clones again, it led us to austerity and it will do again. Labour need to get back their heartlands, fight harder against Tory lies and crucially, work with parties who have similar values to challenge this government at every step.

 

[SALTIRE]

The biggest question I think emerging from this election is: Can the Lib Dems ever recover from what is a total annihilation?

They got what they deserved after abandoning their principles and going into bed with the Tories. They used to be the Whig party which essentially was the Labour party of its day and were the staunch opposition to the Tories. Hell mend them.

MP at 20. Bloody mental.

Pitt The Younger was 24 when he became PM!

With the sudden influx of a large number of new SNP MPs is there a distinct possibility that we see a lot of inexperienced and incompetent people being thrown into Westminster?

No because they have brains in their heads unlike this generation of Labour/Tory MP's let alone the Lib Dems who followed Clegg like sheep to their doom.

 

[SALTIRE]

Their inevitable call for another independence rederendum has a lot more political legitimacy than it did 24 hours ago. A sad day for us who love Scotland but identify ourselves, first and foremost, as British.

They won't ask for Independence any time soon, best just to let it all go from bad at the moment to worse under another Tory government and take it from there - maybe in another 10-15 years we can try again, the timing has to be right.

Miliband has to go, it was always a mistake electing him as leader but I actually thought he'd done reasonably well in the last six months. But I'm unsure who could come in and get the party back to what is required. There is no quick fix for this.

I hoped the pubic would give him a chance, but he was always struggling to make himself look PM material. They should have picked his brother when they had the chance. Who is going to lead them now who can turn this farce around? Its worse than '92 this.

 

[JJH]

 

[Naitch]

Lynton Crosby's played a blinder

 

[Mr Elmo]

I suppose my opinion is kind of invalid in this situation, considering I'm not even old enough to vote. I do however am interested in the general election to find out how our country is going to be run, so I have some sort of opinion.

I have seen many people now complain about the Tories being the ones to run our country as a majority now, and while I can understand their annoyance they can't do anything about it now - What's done is done (Unless a mess up in the voting system somewhere). We as a country voted in our many millions and they came out way on top, proven by a majority, so the people complaining that our country will be run into the ground etc won't be able to change that now. They complain as they are working class that their lives will be ruined by extra costs, well not everyone feels the same as you if people similar to you are voting for this party.

Point is though, either way no matter what party comes in people are going to complain, because no party has got that policy that will balance with everyone. Tories will cater more to the rich, Labour would have catered more for the general working class human and whoever is in will complain about it somehow. Why? You can't do anything about it, if we as a country vote for a party as a majority then they must be doing something right in the first place. Every party is going to screw some demographic of person in this country in some sort of way, it's just the way it is.

This is probably complete waffle, so ignore this post if you want because I could understand. My point is that now it's happened, it's gone. The country will benefit one way while falling in another, for many different things. People have to learn this was our preferred choice, the party we think is going to best lead us forward. It'll be interesting how things work out over the next few months for sure.

 

[Alty]

Labour's real problem is Scotland, it's been wiped out in its heartland and that's because Labour are not really discernible from Tories. Add on the scare tactics of the Tories regarding the SNP influence coupled with the collapse of the Lib Dems in Tory marginals, then we see the election result. This is not the time for Labour to revert to Tory clones again, it led us to austerity and it will do again. Labour need to get back their heartlands, fight harder against Tory lies and crucially, work with parties who have similar values to challenge this government at every step.

Scotland is a problem but it's about more than that. If Labour had won every seat in Scotland they'd still have lost this election.

I do wonder whether there's merit in investigating the 'Blue Labour' type ideas posited by Cruddas et al. Left-wing economics, proper tax and spend, no more part-privatisation or stupid academies/free schools. But also more Euroscepticism, tougher on crime, tougher on immigration etc. I hate using phrases like 'the average working class bloke' because I'm not sure such a thing exists. But to be simplistic for a second, I think your average working class bloke could buy into those kind of policies more than the sort of economically centrist metropolitan elitism that's been served up in recent years.

 

[Layer Cake]

I can't see David Milliband returning as leader of the Labour party, I think that ship has sailed, the reality of him coming in to save the Labour party from the failure of his brother is unlikely. I'd quite like to see Dan Jarvis have a go at it myself.

 

[Alty]

I suppose my opinion is kind of invalid in this situation, considering I'm not even old enough to vote. I do however am interested in the general election to find out how our country is going to be run, so I have some sort of opinion.

I have seen many people now complain about the Tories being the ones to run our country as a majority now, and while I can understand their annoyance they can't do anything about it now - What's done is done (Unless a mess up in the voting system somewhere). We as a country voted in our many millions and they came out way on top, proven by a majority, so the people complaining that our country will be run into the ground etc won't be able to change that now. They complain as they are working class that their lives will be ruined by extra costs, well not everyone feels the same as you if people similar to you are voting for this party.

Point is though, either way no matter what party comes in people are going to complain, because no party has got that policy that will balance with everyone. Tories will cater more to the rich, Labour would have catered more for the general working class human and whoever is in will complain about it somehow. Why? You can't do anything about it, if we as a country vote for a party as a majority then they must be doing something right in the first place. Every party is going to screw some demographic of person in this country in some sort of way, it's just the way it is.

This is probably complete waffle, so ignore this post if you want because I could understand. My point is that now it's happened, it's gone. The country will benefit one way while falling in another, for many different things. People have to learn this was our preferred choice, the party we think is going to best lead us forward. It'll be interesting how things work out over the next few months for sure.

I like the phrase "working class human" No idea why but I cannot stop laughing.

 

[SALTIRE]

Labour's real problem is Scotland, it's been wiped out in its heartland and that's because Labour are not really discernible from Tories. Add on the scare tactics of the Tories regarding the SNP influence coupled with the collapse of the Lib Dems in Tory marginals, then we see the election result. This is not the time for Labour to revert to Tory clones again, it led us to austerity and it will do again. Labour need to get back their heartlands, fight harder against Tory lies and crucially, work with parties who have similar values to challenge this government at every step.

Labour shifted away from the left under New Labour as they were pretty unelectable and under Blair's tenure they were able to convince middle England of their electability. It helped that the Tories at the time were committing seppuku and self-destroying itself in order for Labour to become the dominant Party for 13 years. Unfortunately for them, long term this has had the effect of alienating Labours traditional stronghold here in Scotland and we have shifted to a left-wing leaning party in the SNP to compensate (and they are doing a grander job in all honesty than many political commentators thought they would), and it looks as if Labour will have a hell of a fight on its hand in order to restore confidence in them up here. Scottish Labour will have to move further left in order to try and claw something back up here, but we have long memories and the fact that they chose unionism with England under the referendum is something that we won't forget and helped alienate them further. I actually think Jim Murphy isn't a bad leader of Labour up here and I don't see who could possibly try and push them on better than he can.

As for England, they chose poorly in their choice of leader in Ed Miliband, he was never as left as what the right wing media would have you believe, and he obviously didn't convince anybody that he could lead the nation. So they have now put themselves into a void and are at a crossroads - do they go back to the left and to their roots in order to try and claw back their traditional seats, or do they stick being centre and try to work on middle England again to try and make them seem a viable alternative to the Tories.

 

[Stee]

I like the phrase "working class human" No idea why but I cannot stop laughing.

Get to it working class human! Sounds like something the alien race that eventually conquers the earth will say to us all...and here we are all bickering away

 

[Captain Scumbag]

Not sure what's funnier, really. Ed Balls losing, the predictable mix of sour grapes and incredulity paraded by lefties whenever they realise millions of people don't share their adolescent worldview, or the Nats achieving such a crushing defeat of the "Red Tories" that they're actually getting proper blue Tories instead. Probably Balls losing. I think I laughed about that for well over an hour.

Not all good, though.

Nationalism meets the quirks of our electoral system (update and final result):

UKIP
3.9 million votes (12.6% vote share)
1 seat
3.9 million votes per seat

SNP
1.5 million votes (4.7 % vote share)
56 seats
27,000 (approx) votes per seat.

We probably need some PR.

 

[silkyman]

If you take the Greens, Lib Dem and UKIP, there is 25% of the votes in the election with eight MPs to show for it.

 

[Techno Natch]

I suppose my opinion is kind of invalid in this situation, considering I'm not even old enough to vote. I do however am interested in the general election to find out how our country is going to be run, so I have some sort of opinion.

I have seen many people now complain about the Tories being the ones to run our country as a majority now, and while I can understand their annoyance they can't do anything about it now - What's done is done (Unless a mess up in the voting system somewhere). We as a country voted in our many millions and they came out way on top, proven by a majority, so the people complaining that our country will be run into the ground etc won't be able to change that now. They complain as they are working class that their lives will be ruined by extra costs, well not everyone feels the same as you if people similar to you are voting for this party.

Point is though, either way no matter what party comes in people are going to complain, because no party has got that policy that will balance with everyone. Tories will cater more to the rich, Labour would have catered more for the general working class human and whoever is in will complain about it somehow. Why? You can't do anything about it, if we as a country vote for a party as a majority then they must be doing something right in the first place. Every party is going to screw some demographic of person in this country in some sort of way, it's just the way it is.

This is probably complete waffle, so ignore this post if you want because I could understand. My point is that now it's happened, it's gone. The country will benefit one way while falling in another, for many different things. People have to learn this was our preferred choice, the party we think is going to best lead us forward. It'll be interesting how things work out over the next few months for sure.

Your opinion is just as valued as anyones. Being young and interested in politics is a good thing. I hope that's not patronising.

How old are you and would you have voted given the chance?

I agree with most of what you say, there are still things that people can do though to oppose the government. Most of it will be futile but it's better than just moaning in the pub in my opinion.

I don't think Labour would have been much better, they are tory lite really. Though I'd rather have that than what we got.

 

[BlueBee]