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Grimsby Fans Racially abusing own player?

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Stevencc

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Sascha Baron Cohen publicity stunt.
 

FGRJC

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Chris FGR

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Why would fans racially abuse their own player? Hardly going to make him play better is it?

It's also quite hypocritical the way people criticise the likes of the Spanish FA for not coming down heavily on clubs where racist abuse occurs, and yet when it happens here clubs are rarely if ever punished for it.
 

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Why would fans racially abuse their own player? Hardly going to make him play better is it?

It's also quite hypocritical the way people criticise the likes of the Spanish FA for not coming down heavily on clubs where racist abuse occurs, and yet when it happens here clubs are rarely if ever punished for it.

Why would fans racially abuse an opposition player? Racism isn't logical by it's very nature. There is no good reason for it, and if you really need to abuse a player there are plenty of non-racist ways to do so.

As for why people complain about it in Spain and Italy - because in this country it is isolated individuals who can be hard to identify. In Spain it is whole sections making monkey noises etc. and in Italy it's fans signing "there will never be a black Italian" to black Italians. The problem here is on a much smaller scale now, and hopefully we will continue to reduce it. The only information to come out from the football club so far is the manager calling for the fan to be banned for life. It's highly unlikely they will be able to identify the culprit I imagine.
 

Luke Imp

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I'm amazed anything relating to Grimsby, Scunthorpe or Lincoln made its way onto Look North.

It's not called Look Hull for no reason.
 

Chris FGR

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The only information to come out from the football club so far is the manager calling for the fan to be banned for life. It's highly unlikely they will be able to identify the culprit I imagine.

A life ban? Like the one Karen Stevens didn't get? http://www.kickitout.org/news/grimsby-town-fan-on-racism-charge-not-banned/#.VsxJ7DbMtjo

Also posts like this on The New Fishy do make you wonder if the problems are a bit deeper then one or two idiots;

Last season in the Pontoon Stand. I had to question the behaviour of a fan who was racially shouting toward a striker from the opposition who had scored. To be fair he stopped doing it but the ones round him didn't bat an eyelid. One bloke next to me said ignore him its what him and his mates are like but not to challenge is to collude and I think there are too many blind eyes turned which leads to this sort of incident. There are racist chants, they are the minority and the perpertrators are abhorant and have no place in Blundell Park or any other football ground.

There are clearly still issues that need to be addressed, turning a blind eye or saying it used to be worse/is worse in Italy etc is not the way to go.
 

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A life ban? Like the one Karen Stevens didn't get? http://www.kickitout.org/news/grimsby-town-fan-on-racism-charge-not-banned/#.VsxJ7DbMtjo

Also posts like this on The New Fishy do make you wonder if the problems are a bit deeper then one or two idiots;

Last season in the Pontoon Stand. I had to question the behaviour of a fan who was racially shouting toward a striker from the opposition who had scored. To be fair he stopped doing it but the ones round him didn't bat an eyelid. One bloke next to me said ignore him its what him and his mates are like but not to challenge is to collude and I think there are too many blind eyes turned which leads to this sort of incident. There are racist chants, they are the minority and the perpertrators are abhorant and have no place in Blundell Park or any other football ground.

There are clearly still issues that need to be addressed, turning a blind eye or saying it used to be worse/is worse in Italy etc is not the way to go.
I agree that there are still issues in football and society that need to be addressed. We shouldn't be complacent but it is better these days. When I first started going to football in the 80's it was fucking horrendous and we've come a long way. Just the fact that these incidents provoke debate shows that.
Sadly we can't stop all the scum attending football but what we can do is make an environment where their views are not tolerated. I'm surprised by Grimsby's stance in the case you've highlighted but I suppose people can change their views:dry:
 

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A life ban? Like the one Karen Stevens didn't get? http://www.kickitout.org/news/grimsby-town-fan-on-racism-charge-not-banned/#.VsxJ7DbMtjo

Also posts like this on The New Fishy do make you wonder if the problems are a bit deeper then one or two idiots;

Last season in the Pontoon Stand. I had to question the behaviour of a fan who was racially shouting toward a striker from the opposition who had scored. To be fair he stopped doing it but the ones round him didn't bat an eyelid. One bloke next to me said ignore him its what him and his mates are like but not to challenge is to collude and I think there are too many blind eyes turned which leads to this sort of incident. There are racist chants, they are the minority and the perpertrators are abhorant and have no place in Blundell Park or any other football ground.

There are clearly still issues that need to be addressed, turning a blind eye or saying it used to be worse/is worse in Italy etc is not the way to go.

By quoting my post and responding to it with these points that were not under discussion are you trying to imply that I believe that Grimsby were right in that case? I certainly do not believe that and I believe I was on record on this forum (or the previous incarnation) as saying so.

I think how the club deals with each case should be looked at individually. Grimsby Town Football Club have not dealt with this case yet.

I'm not turning a blind eye or denying there are issues to be sorted. The point about Spain and Italy was in response to you calling it hypocritical to complain about how they deal with racism incidents in football (or not as the case may be). It was not justifying any lack of action in this country, just pointing out that because it is a different scale of issue different responses are required and therefore criticising the lack of action in Spain and Italy is not hypocritical IMO (because if we had a set of fans chanting the equivalent, making monkey sounds, or throwing bananas at a player there would be a strong response, hopefully from the club, but also from the FA and the police).

You appear to be putting words in my mouth, which is something I certainly don't want, especially on issues to do with things like racism. I want to be very clear on this.
 

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I quoted you because I was responding to your post, and there was another post in between.

It was relevant to my point because you mentioned that no information had been issued other then what Hurst had said about a life ban, hence my point referencing a previous similar case where no life ban was enforced.

What I said after that had no link to anything you said, it was just easier putting it in one post rather multiple ones.

I never suggested anything about your personal opinions, or put words in your mouth. I was basically quoting Paul Hurst, not you.
 
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Jemfy

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I quoted you because I was responding to your post, and there was another post in between.

It was relevant to my point because you mentioned that no information had been issued other then what Hurst had said about a life ban, hence my point referencing a previous similar case where no life ban was enforced.

What I said after that had no link to anything you said, it was just easier putting it in one post rather multiple ones.

I never suggested anything about your personal opinions, or put words in your mouth. I was basically quoting Paul Hurst, not you.

It was how I read it, and I believe others may have read it the same, therefore I have to respond to distance myself lest I be seen to have those opinions. I'm not trying to attack you, but distance myself from the implications that can be read in to that post quoting mine. With clarification your post makes sense of course, but if you had been explicit then it would have been impossible to read it how I did i.e. something like "Hurst calling for a life ban like the one Karen Stevens got?!" makes the subject in the sentence clear rather relying on the reader to figure it out. I think it was also reasonable of me to believe you are responding to me in the last part as I was the only one on the thread to previously mention Italy specifically, again I believed others may read the post like that and have to distance myself from the implied belief. If you'd like me to clarify further feel free to drop me a PM.

To bring it back on subject though I quite agree Hurst can be considered hypocritical calling for a ban here after not doing the same in the past, though it is worth noting there was probably a person behind the scenes pulling the strings to try and make a good PR moment out of the older situation. Also he is probably going OTT asking for a life ban IMO as there is a balance between punishing someone in order to correct their behaviour and punishing them to the point of vindictiveness. I wonder if he probably feels the situations are different when it is your own player you are racially abusing - something I definitely disagree with.
 

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The sceptic may suspect that Hurst is highlighting it to divert attention from the terrible result, thereby gaining an extra few weeks in his job that he surely doesnt deserve.
From what Ive seen from twatter images it was a rant from a fan that Toto reacted to- not forgivable to use racist language, but the overall rant possibly was. I would have thought that the "fan" could well be picked up from cctv images, as he was clearly visible?
 

Chris FGR

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It was how I read it, and I believe others may have read it the same, therefore I have to respond to distance myself lest I be seen to have those opinions. I'm not trying to attack you, but distance myself from the implications that can be read in to that post quoting mine. With clarification your post makes sense of course, but if you had been explicit then it would have been impossible to read it how I did i.e. something like "Hurst calling for a life ban like the one Karen Stevens got?!" makes the subject in the sentence clear rather relying on the reader to figure it out. I think it was also reasonable of me to believe you are responding to me in the last part as I was the only one on the thread to previously mention Italy specifically, again I believed others may read the post like that and have to distance myself from the implied belief. If you'd like me to clarify further feel free to drop me a PM.

Fair enough, point taken. Would you like me to edit my post?

On a separate point, I think that people need to be brave to completely eradicate this sort of stuff. Don't feel intimidated by those idiots threats and stay quiet, report them. They aren't normally as hard as they make out.
 
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genesimmons

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I suspect these racially abusing the player wont be proper fans, more like hangers on looking for trouble. Seen similiar incidents in past at other non league games by such fans
 

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Grimsby fan* (singular)

The club did state that they are investigating the incident, but it was just tacked onto the end of the match report. I do find it a little disappointing that they didn't issue a full statement. The optimist in me wants to believe this might be because they're waiting until they have something concrete, but we also have to face the possibility that somebody at the club has made a decision to keep the incident as quiet as possible.

With regards to the Karen Stevens incident, she was given 200 hours of community service and a 3 year nationwide ban wasn't she? While what she did was deplorable, one of the cornerstones of our society is redemption and rehabilitation. If we can't adhere to that, we may as well give up now.
 

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Racism of any player should not be tolarated Grimsby Town need to deal with the strongest sancions possible
antifa now and forever
 

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Racism of any player should not be tolarated Grimsby Town need to deal with the strongest sancions possible
antifa now and forever
Yeah, but people can change. I was a horrible c*** when I was young, a real nasty, racist thug. I hope I'm a better person now. A life ban doesn't take into account people's capacity to change. I don't want fash scum at football anymore than you do but I personally believe life bans are counter productive
No pasaran
 

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In fact I'm not even sure of my own position. Maybe tivvys right and life bans are appropriate to make a point and as an example.
 

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Racism of any player should not be tolarated Grimsby Town need to deal with the strongest sancions possible
antifa now and forever
It's not in the club's hands though. When the Karen Stevens incident happened, the club issued a statement saying that the magistrates court were able to issue a harsher punishment. I don't even think a lifetime ban is possible, is it? I think 10 years is the longest?
In fact I'm not even sure of my own position. Maybe tivvys right and life bans are appropriate to make a point and as an example.
No, you were right the first time. Just slamming the culprits with the strongest punishment possible doesn't do anything to solve the situation. It's just a short term fix. Making an example every couple of months when these cases rear their heads won't change people's attitudes and values, it will only serve to ensure that racism remains bubbling just below the surface enough to not be a constant issue for longer. These people need to be dealt with by appropriate punishment and effective education regarding why they have been punished. Hitting them lifetime bans and just telling them to go home is counter productive as it will only lead to more resentment and hate.
 

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It's not in the club's hands though. When the Karen Stevens incident happened, the club issued a statement saying that the magistrates court were able to issue a harsher punishment. I don't even think a lifetime ban is possible, is it? I think 10 years is the longest?

No, you were right the first time. Just slamming the culprits with the strongest punishment possible doesn't do anything to solve the situation. It's just a short term fix. Making an example every couple of months when these cases rear their heads won't change people's attitudes and values, it will only serve to ensure that racism remains bubbling just below the surface enough to not be a constant issue for longer. These people need to be dealt with by appropriate punishment and effective education regarding why they have been punished. Hitting them lifetime bans and just telling them to go home is counter productive as it will only lead to more resentment and hate.
I agree, I was just thinking that there has to be a appropriate sanction. I think the most effective way to combat racism at grounds is to create a culture where racism isn't tolerated and is seen as unacceptable. Ridicule the idea that these people are in some way " hard" or " funny" . We've come a long way since BF leaflets were regularly handed out inside grounds but we need to go further.
 

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I agree also maybe compulery re-education classes for those who spout racist c**p. I also think we need a better system to report/ control racism if it rears it's ugly head
Antifa now & FOREVER
 

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Not too long ago, EDL branches were recruiting teenagers at football games, even. A friend at the Shay has found (and destroyed) NF leaflets in our toilets before the game a few times. In 2015.

I haven't heard racism on the terraces since we played Bradford City now. Usually I hear slurs twice a season. I'm 8st wet through, but I still usually confront it. If you don't retaliate when you hear it, take a look at yourself.

But by the sounds of things, 0.06% of a fantastic Grimsby away following, more than we've attracted for any game of the season while also travelling 180 miles for it, said summat disgusting and that fishy fash should be excluded from games and exposed to the people he hates. Some of the most rancid people like to turn up when there's a big enough crowd for them to hide in. I'd doubt he even knew or recognised Nsiala without a few others singling him out in the first place, and he's everyone's problem rather than just Grimsby's. The travelling Mariners I walked amongst last Saturday were not in the least bit intimidating, neither around the ground or at the pub and they never have been. It doesn't stop any human trash from being human trash, but that's not a given amongst a large fanbase and does give me a positive association with them.
 

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Not too long ago, EDL branches were recruiting teenagers at football games, even. A friend at the Shay has found (and destroyed) NF leaflets in our toilets before the game a few times. In 2015.

I haven't heard racism on the terraces since we played Bradford City now. Usually I hear slurs twice a season. I'm 8st wet through, but I still usually confront it. If you don't retaliate when you hear it, take a look at yourself.

But by the sounds of things, 0.06% of a fantastic Grimsby away following, more than we've attracted for any game of the season while also travelling 180 miles for it, said summat disgusting and that fishy fash should be excluded from games and exposed to the people he hates. Some of the most rancid people like to turn up when there's a big enough crowd for them to hide in. I'd doubt he even knew or recognised Nsiala without a few others singling him out in the first place, and he's everyone's problem rather than just Grimsby's. The travelling Mariners I walked amongst last Saturday were not in the least bit intimidating, neither around the ground or at the pub and they never have been. It doesn't stop any human trash from being human trash, but that's not a given amongst a large fanbase and does give me a positive association with them.
Well said Sir! I get fed up of us all being tarred with the same brush. Yes, we do have our share of knuckledraggers and maybe it's a slightly larger percentage than some, but the vast majority of us are good, honest fans who travel the length and breadth of the country following our team. I've been to over 160 grounds following The Mariners over the years and have never been involved in even a sniff of trouble.

Makes me laugh that there is now a thread on the FGR website suggesting that all Grimsby fans be banned from our game there next Friday because of what happened at Halifax. Apparently it "rained coins on the pitch" after you'd scored your 2nd!!

It's a shame that the game has been moved from the Saturday as it will certainly reduce our following as will the last few results. If we had still been in touch at the top then I'm sure we would have half filled their ground, although I don't think they like giving away fans too many tickets. Still I thnk we've sold over 300 tickets for the game so far and I reckon we should have at least 500 there on the night, which for an evening game on TV is not too shabby.
 

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Well said Sir! I get fed up of us all being tarred with the same brush. Yes, we do have our share of knuckledraggers and maybe it's a slightly larger percentage than some, but the vast majority of us are good, honest fans who travel the length and breadth of the country following our team. I've been to over 160 grounds following The Mariners over the years and have never been involved in even a sniff of trouble.

Come on, admit it. Deep down there's a bit of Nobby Butcher in all of ya.
 

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I'm watching grimsby later after work what can I expect? Racism, inflatables and constant moaning?
 

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Makes me laugh that there is now a thread on the FGR website suggesting that all Grimsby fans be banned from our game there next Friday because of what happened at Halifax. Apparently it "rained coins on the pitch" after you'd scored your 2nd!!

The first post was tongue in cheek, and the second was just quoting from The Fishy Forum.
 

GTFCfish

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I'm watching grimsby later after work what can I expect? Racism, inflatables and constant moaning?
Good job the film was set in Grimsby and not Nailsworth, as trying to act as a football hooligan with only 20 people at the match may not have had the same effect...
 

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Well said Sir! I get fed up of us all being tarred with the same brush. Yes, we do have our share of knuckledraggers and maybe it's a slightly larger percentage than some, but the vast majority of us are good, honest fans who travel the length and breadth of the country following our team. I've been to over 160 grounds following The Mariners over the years and have never been involved in even a sniff of trouble.

Makes me laugh that there is now a thread on the FGR website suggesting that all Grimsby fans be banned from our game there next Friday because of what happened at Halifax. Apparently it "rained coins on the pitch" after you'd scored your 2nd!!

It's a shame that the game has been moved from the Saturday as it will certainly reduce our following as will the last few results. If we had still been in touch at the top then I'm sure we would have half filled their ground, although I don't think they like giving away fans too many tickets. Still I thnk we've sold over 300 tickets for the game so far and I reckon we should have at least 500 there on the night, which for an evening game on TV is not too shabby.

That FGR forum must be one of the most witless places on the internet. You could gather all the collective brains on there and fit them on the end of a single pubic hair. They seem to have a problem with near enough any spectators that would stick out during a Good Friday prayers in a nunnery. Unless it's their stewards or staff of course, who run the damn village.

Sounds a very good following anyway. I'm sure if we were third and had a Friday night TV game 225 miles away or however far it is for yous, we'd have a smaller proportion. That's what makes Grimsby a key fixture for so many tbh. Just don't bring any inflatables, you could have someone's arm off with them.
 

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Just don't bring any inflatables, you could have someone's arm off with them.

Yep, spot on, someone could get "Barneted" by one you know

Im really looking foreward to our fishy friends coming down, FGR V GTFC is the highlight of the season for me. Household fills up with Cods folk.
Have you folk considered that it could possibly be a Cheltenham Town GTFC play off final repeat BTW :conf:
 
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