Hi-Fi Corner - Vinyl, CD, Cassettes and the rest

[Vanni]

First pressings eh? You should meet the jazz and classical buffs....

Oh, the Franz Crass connection seems a tad unlikely. The title "Penis Envy" would surely have given that away

Haha, didn't know the guy had that one too. I was thinking of 'The Feeding of the 5000', 'Christ - The Album' and 'Stations of the Crass' which was often wrongly titled on mail order catalogues as 'Stations of the Cross'. Those album titles makes one think they were some fervent Christian band eh Yeah right.

 

[appletablepenny]

Yes, "Feeding" and "Stations" were the other two. It was weird - they had the same little numbered stickers as all the other records!

 

[Vanni]

Oh you are so right. So much nonsense spoken and believed about first pressings. Cheeky bastard at a record fair quoted me 35 quid for a four skins ep. Suffice to say he didn't make a sale.

Thing is that the original tapes get lost, and so it's true that the reissues will be mastered from another vinyl copy or a CD. A lot of the 80's punk/ indie bands were signed to small labels and the master tapes have been destroyed or lost. See The Mob 'Let The Tribe Increase' for a vinyl reissue mastered from an old vinyl copy for example. Then there are those bands like Crass who had their own label and still had the original tapes, but when it came to reissuing their stuff opted for the now very common trend of remastering instead of a simple reissue.

But let's be frank now. In most cases we're talking about punk stuff here which was hardly audiophile in the first case.

 

[Vanni]

Yes, "Feeding" and "Stations" were the other two. It was weird - they had the same little numbered stickers as all the other records!

The ones some people put on the outer plastic sleeve to catalogue their collection? Never understood the reason tbh.

 

[appletablepenny]

The ones some people put on the outer plastic sleeve to catalogue their collection? Never understood the reason tbh.

This guy had them stuck to the jackets, little round things with numbers written on 'em. I hate stickers, especially price stickers, murder if you plan on selling it on for an inflated price.

 

[Habbinalan]

This guy had them stuck to the jackets, little round things with numbers written on 'em. I hate stickers, especially price stickers, murder if you plan on selling it on for an inflated price.

I'm beginning to like the fact that I didn't always remove them when I bought new.

I haven't found any with £ s & d yet but I've got a few with decals saying "£2.99 Our Price" and £3.99 Our Price" or "includes hit singles....."

My all time favourite is on Christmas at the Patti - which I apparently got for £1.43

 

[appletablepenny]

Had that Specials album once. Long gone now, though I still have the CD. I like the randomness of the £1.43 sticker btw.
Here you go Alan, you can just about make out the 32 shillings and sixpence.

Any stickers Aber / Vanni?

 

[Vanni]

Alan - In my hasty enthusiasm to show everyone who wonders onto this fabulous thread my expertise on all audio related matters (ahem), I forgot one fundamental difference between the SpinClean and the Knosti Both work in more or less the same way, but with the SpinClean one only wets the cleaning brushes with his recipe of choice, while the Knosti has a basin into which one pours the fluid. So, my suggestion of using only clean fluid wasn't a good one as you'd get through a whole bottle just to clean a handful of records. Likewise if you go with a homemade recipe instead of the supplied fluid, as it still would work out quite costly in the end.

This doesn't leave a Knosti owner much choice then, except to filter the used liquid and re-use it again. Still, a good idea would be to clean only 3/4 records at once, as cleaning more would only result in transferring the dirt from one record to another.

Another thing, are you noticing any crud build up on the stylus after playing a newly cleaned record?

Ps- I've just finished cleaning 3 records, so a chance to revisit them again. Pink Floyd's Final Cut, Roxy Music's Avalon and Architecture by OMD but I was already quite familiar with this album. Still not too happy with the Floyd lp as it looks absolutely flawless yet has some clicks that are still audible. Think I'll give it another cleaning.

 

[appletablepenny]

Vanni - you're beginning to sound like a Steve Hoffman forumite

 

[Vanni]

Yeah I know and I make no excuses. I love records.

Now there's a forum I check from time to time whenever I want to see if some recent reissue is worth shelling out for

 

[appletablepenny]

I hung out there for a bit, but found it a very odd place.

 

[Vanni]

I know, but there are people whose only interest is music and audio equipment. Luckily for us we also follow the footy and other stuff. But otoh, that forum can be helpful for us who don't want ten different versions of the same record and only seek out the best sounding one.

 

[appletablepenny]

It was the Beatle and Monkee mania, the censorship, the Hoffman worship and the downright po-facedness of many of the posters which got to me in the end.

Edit - just had a look at the Hoffman forum - there's athread on Cliff Richard's 1975-1995 output which has 2181 replies!
Edit - the punk bonfire thread features some angry people too
Edit - 5 minutes of browsing the forum and I fully realise why I never go there any more

 

[Vanni]

[QUOTE="eightiesrobin, post: 534225, member: 931"]It was the Beatle and Monkee mania, the censorship, the Hoffman worship and the downright po-facedness of many of the posters which got to me in the end.

Edit - just had a look at the Hoffman forum - there's athread on Cliff Richard's 1975-1995 output which has 2181 replies!
Edit - the punk bonfire thread features some angry people too
Edit - 5 minutes of browsing the forum and I fully realise why I never go there any more[/QUOTE]

Sorry but I have absolutely no idea on these threads as I don't read the SH forums.The only time I do is when I google about some new release that is pressed on both black and other colours so I'll know if a particular colour is noisy or not, and I get redirected to over there. I didn't care about this thing in the past but I'm finding out that for some reason certain records sound fine on black but not on coloured vinyl, or vice versa. But I know what you mean by the Hoffman worship which is all a bit silly.

However your post got me intrigued so I checked out the forum and yep, I think you're right and it's not a good idea to go there. I also found the forum a bit of a mess, and think there should be more sub forums. Still, I found this guy's sarcastic reply to someone asking if dropping the stylus in the middle of a song is safe or not -

"Keep plenty of antiseptic wipes on hand when you're playing a record, even if you let it play through to the end. Airborne germs can find their way to vinyl. When one side of a record is over, put on sterilized rubber gloves before playing the other side. Discard the gloves as soon as you're done using them. DO NOT cough, sneeze or pass gas while your record is playing, or else it will be ruined. Breathing as shallowly as possible is also advisable.

When it comes time for returning a record to its sleeve, consider consulting with a government agency such as the U.S. Department of Transportation Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety (PHMSA - Home ») for crucial tips on how to keep your records free from tics and pops caused by pathogens of all kinds.

Happy listening!"

 

[appletablepenny]

You know, if Hoffman had said that, people would follow the advice to the letter.

 

[Habbinalan]

Alan - In my hasty enthusiasm to show everyone who wonders onto this fabulous thread my expertise on all audio related matters (ahem), I forgot one fundamental difference between the SpinClean and the Knosti Both work in more or less the same way, but with the SpinClean one only wets the cleaning brushes with his recipe of choice, while the Knosti has a basin into which one pours the fluid. So, my suggestion of using only clean fluid wasn't a good one as you'd get through a whole bottle just to clean a handful of records. Likewise if you go with a homemade recipe instead of the supplied fluid, as it still would work out quite costly in the end.

This doesn't leave a Knosti owner much choice then, except to filter the used liquid and re-use it again. Still, a good idea would be to clean only 3/4 records at once, as cleaning more would only result in transferring the dirt from one record to another.

Another thing, are you noticing any crud build up on the stylus after playing a newly cleaned record?

Ps- I've just finished cleaning 3 records, so a chance to revisit them again. Pink Floyd's Final Cut, Roxy Music's Avalon and Architecture by OMD but I was already quite familiar with this album. Still not too happy with the Floyd lp as it looks absolutely flawless yet has some clicks that are still audible. Think I'll give it another cleaning.

Rest assured Vanni I'm too tight to have chucked out once used cleaning fluid.

Experience will fine tune how I proceed but for now the key elements are:

1. I have literally hundreds of records to clean.
2. I got an extra drying rack and, as a result of it being damaged in transit but still useable, have ended up with 3 racks.
3. This means that I can potentially clean and re-sleeve batches of 30 - 50 discs.
4. Some of the grot goes into solution but most goes into suspension. The brushes are pretty effective at loosening particles from the grooves and the solution drains pretty effectively - so there is very little residue, especially particles, left on the records.
5. However, the solution does get cloudy. Filtering removes a lot of the "dust" but actually letting it settle and decanting also removes a lot - clearly the filter supplied is far from perfect - I'll be looking at alternatives.
6. I'm getting this level of cleaning/washing with at least 33.33 turns of the disc in the bath, which holds around 800ml of fluid.

I'm happy that the fluid from my first batch of 12 progessively more dirty records was re-usable, subject to both filtration then decanting. There are losses in the process so my next batch of 12 was using 90% recycled and 10% new fluid. That has also been recycled and topped up. My last session did 30 discs, including quite a lot which were pretty clean but had a bit of static/click, and I allowed a quick clean up of the fluid mid-session. I'll probably now move on to my home made mix - which will cost around £2/litre (no more than £2.50).

• De-ionised De-mineralised water £9 for 10 litres
• IPA 100% - use at 10% of mix (may increase) - £5.50 for 0.5 litre
• Ilfotol Wetting Agent £20 per litre - enough for 10 - 20 litres of cleaning mixture

I've had no obvious issues with the cleaned records. No build up on the stylus. The better records now sound perfect (we'll see how things go after multiple plays) and some unplayable albums that I've had for years (along with some bought more recently and tolerated once or twice) have been transformed by the treatment.

For now, I'm thinking that, provided I treat the cleanest first and check for cloudiness, one litre of mix will probably treat as many as 60 - 80 discs in batches of 15 - 20, with a pause for filtering and especially settling and decanting between batches. That's going to work out at less than 5p per disc, even if I'm more cautious.

On a less technical note, I took the wife away to North Norfolk for her birthday this weekend (post-match!) and we were reminiscing on our record buying back in the day. Our tastes overlap a lot but amazingly the only duplicate when we merged our LP collections over 40 years ago was this

 

[Habbinalan]

..........Ps- I've just finished cleaning 3 records, so a chance to revisit them again. Pink Floyd's Final Cut, Roxy Music's Avalon and Architecture by OMD but I was already quite familiar with this album. Still not too happy with the Floyd lp as it looks absolutely flawless yet has some clicks that are still audible. Think I'll give it another cleaning.

I'm assuming that some clicks on our records are caused by physical damage to the grooves - in my case, I can see the scratches. For those, I'm never going to eliminate the clicks by cleaning, all I can do is remove the dirt collected by the scratch and remove the static - both of which should (and in my recent cleanings definitely) have made them less intrusive.

 

[Habbinalan]

I was beginning to worry and considering re-installing the Dentons. Headphones confirmed that the cartridge has bedded in nicely. The new (Kef) speakers were failing to deliver on the bass. Comments were passed and I was considering sub-woofers and knocking down walls..........then it happened.

Rory Gallagher and ,in particular, Gerry McAvoy, cleared the throat and the speakers kicked into life. Clint Eastwood & General Saint confirmed that it wasn't an aberration. The old Dylan albums have never sounded so good. Van Morrison is confirming that, although he is a pratt, he makes and recorded some magical sounds.

 

[Habbinalan]

Which? Best Buy update - I thought my Kefs were a steal at £250, I felt I had to check if the price was for one or two! I've just been informed that my seller (Richer Sounds) is now doing them for £200 - must have got a job lot from somewhere they need to move on?

Alan - I get the sleeves from this guy who runs SMS Tech, a small business who have produced a couple of turntables, but also produce upgrades for Linn and Rega decks. They're unbranded Nagaoka sleeves therefore cheaper. I've also got some branded ones and as far as I can tell they're exactly the same. Here's the website but he's on Ebay too.

http://srm-tech.co.uk/epages/4c0089...8923-2265-416e-a207-cc9dd8b06028/Products/NS1

Confirm good price, good quality and quick delivery.

Finally - this gem was in the latest batch to be cleaned up. 24 at a time with a change of bathwater in the middle has become standard operating procedure. The amount of fine dust settling out after leaving a filtered and decanted used mix for a week has confirmed that there is plenty of crud in apparently "clean" mix and the filter is only catching the big stuff. Still not half way through the collection.

 

[Vanni]

Richer Sounds are well known for their deals and some think it's only because they buy in large quantities so they can more than afford to offer cheaper prices. Could also be KEF are planning on putting out a new model (which will obs. be the exact design as the current one) and so the 'a new model's coming out soon and people will want that' syndrome will come into play so the retailer will lower their prices on the current line.

You got the sleeves from SRM then? Yes, they're pretty good and cheaper but if I were you I wouldn't stick around their website too much with all the Rega upgrades they manufacture. I was looking at this 6mm anti static mat myself - as my Sansuis both have thick mats, although I've tried thinner mats and didn't hear any audible change in sound- but I'm having second thoughts as my good Sansui-mad friend believes the original rubber mats are good enough. Still, the offer of a free platter damper looks with every order is enticing although my decks don't need any dampening

LINK -
http://srm-tech.co.uk/epages/4c0089...23-2265-416e-a207-cc9dd8b06028/Products/ARPM6

Alan, you mentioned you have that T2 album on the other thread, and I take it you're aware that it's a highly collectible record. I checked out my copy but it's only in a vg/vg condition, not that I was looking to sell but still. It's also the repressing which came out a year later I think, although it's still sought after. You can tell the first pressing from the repress quite easily as it doesn't have 'T2' credited on the label, while the repress has the credit just below the song titles.

While some guys like me are more interested in the record itself, it's always nice to know that you have some valuable records in your collection for that unexpected expense that's always lurking behind the corner.

 

[Vanni]

Alan, I know you're upset at paying 50 quid more but there's no need for three identical posts. Or is there?

AberGas - Where are you mate? I'm waiting for more pics of your car boot sale purchases

 

[Habbinalan]

....Alan, you mentioned you have that T2 album on the other thread, and I take it you're aware that it's a highly collectible record. I checked out my copy but it's only in a vg/vg condition, not that I was looking to sell but still. It's also the repressing which came out a year later I think, although it's still sought after. You can tell the first pressing from the repress quite easily as it doesn't have 'T2' credited on the label, while the repress has the credit just below the song titles.

While some guys like me are more interested in the record itself, it's always nice to know that you have some valuable records in your collection for that unexpected expense that's always lurking behind the corner.

I think I remember hearing it might be worth a bit some years back but never followed up. I got it first time round (I think OGWT inspired rather than the usual "heard it on John Peel"). It's not had a lot of plays ( I accept "lead drummers" only in small doses) so is in fairly good order but I'm not used to classifying condition for sale/purchase. I wish I hadn't looked it up on Discogs now (£185 !!!!????) but it's a reminder to look after it. Yes, it is the first pressing with no mention of T2 on the record label but the label is actually different to the ones shown on Discog (below) as well.

The references to Palace Music and Alan Keen Music sit alongside the tracks not above the 1970

Perhaps I'll do some more research and get back.

I have a couple of others from first time around that I think might be worth more than most in the collection. Warm Dust - And it came to Pass, is less than inspiring and I think required smoking of herbs to make it vaguely interesting. Pretty Things - Parachute, is brilliant It's a 1970 US import but I think the more valuable one (interesting Motown Sound inner sleeve).

 

[Habbinalan]

Alan, I know you're upset at paying 50 quid more but there's no need for three identical posts. Or is there?............

Site did seem to be throwing a wobbly when I finally tried to post that...........................I was also doing 3 things at once, which doesn't help

 

[Habbinalan]

My dilligent research has confirmed that there are at least 2 versions of the label on these T2 first pressings out there. Apart from the reference to "No T2 on the Record Label," I've found no indication that they are recognised or catalogued differently - more cans of worms better left closed. Mine's as in the first image (got from the-saleroom.com) but the blue is distinctly darker, almost purple and even darker than the 2nd one that I got from Discog (it may be just the photo I guess). I'm not selling it but I might consider giving it to a charity, like Emmaus or Birdlife International, to sell one day.

 

[Vanni]

I'm not selling it but I might consider giving it to a charity

+10000000

I know what you mean by record grading as it's something I don't look forward to whenever I need to sell/trade any of my records. I'm a believer in actually listening to the record, and not just visually grading it, as sometimes the description would be misleading. I've got records that look NM and yet sound like a well played G/VG record ,and vice versa,so I prefer stating that it looks NM but plays VG. Obviously record dealers cannot afford to listen to all their inventory, but IMO, they should at least listen to the rarer stuff. Just visually inspecting a £100+ LP they're offering for sale doesn't sit well with me.

 

[Aber gas]

Alan, I know you're upset at paying 50 quid more but there's no need for three identical posts. Or is there?

AberGas - Where are you mate? I'm waiting for more pics of your car boot sale purchases

Um. I didn't know whether I was just being humoured tbh. I'll post some if you want.
Congratulations on your finish in the good guy list. You're a top fella.

 

[Vanni]

Um. I didn't know whether I was just being humoured tbh. I'll post some if you want.
Congratulations on your finish in the good guy list. You're a top fella.

Cheers mate. Yeah go ahead and post some pics whenever you feel like.

 

[Habbinalan]

Vanni I'm going to nickname you the Firestarter.

• The Șoimii Pâncota Thread got me delving back into my years visiting and working in Romania (and Lithuania and Ukraine).
• The suggestion for this thread prompted my interest in digging a bit deeper in the collection and, in particular, making the vinyl more accessible and playable - which in turn has delivered a system upgrade and new cleaning regime.
• Your reminder of the T2 value to collectors has had me browsing http://www.vinylrecordfair.com/vinyl-record-values/#gsc.tab=0 to check what my faves may be worth and what it might cost to re-buy some stuff I sold in the 70s. This will keep me going a while but it looks like I might need to up the insurance.

The faves, even the more obtuse ones are not worth a lot - although many would cost £10 plus to replace, some more, some peanuts. The gaps can be filled with decent quality later pressings at modest cost. I have some early Stones, Eric Burdon, Hendrix, etc. that are worth a bit but it's the potential value of my (now little played) purchases from the hippy days that have knocked my socks off. I guess if I'm ever going to be able to part with any, I'll need to cash in before the cash and time rich baby boomers have popped their clogs or lost their hearing.

 

[Habbinalan]

What have you started Vanni ??

All first pressings -

 

[Vanni]

I've never heard of Mantle-Piece before so I'll check 'em out later because right now I'm listening to Chris Whitley's fantastic second album(RIP). Great talent but taken sadly taken too soon. But I checked out M-P's album on Discogs. I say Alan!