How have your politics changed?

[Ian_Wrexham]

Thought it might be interesting to do some self-reflection. How have your politics changed and what was the catalyst or catalysts for that?

 

[JaseTheVillain]

I used to be right, and then I grew up.

 

[Vanni]

Definitely more left wing.

 

[Look Out There Are Llamas]

When I was growing up I used to be a Conservative fan because my grandparents/ mum voted for them.

As I've become better educated I've become quite the leftie - and I've convinced my mum UKIP are bad so bonus. Although in general I don't think my viewpoint now fully reflects a left - right split, it's more complex than that.

 

[Back in the DHSS]

I used to be on the left, and then i met Diane Abbot!

 

[sl1k]

The change is more in the sense that the politics has to be adaptive to real life socio-economic situations. The philosophy remains the same, but more a realist than an idealist now.

More Jose Mourinho than Pep Guardiola.

 

[Deleted]

I was told my political ideology would become increasingly right-wing as I got older. I was centrist then, I'm now 30 and a communist...

 

[SALTIRE]

Mine haven't changed at all; when I see that the country is regressing to the Seventies and Eighties, I'm still the socialist I've always been.

 

[Stringy]

How many historians does it take to change a lightbulb?

That depends on what you mean by change.

 

[Look Out There Are Llamas]

The change is more in the sense that the politics has to be adaptive to real life socio-economic situations. The philosophy remains the same, but more a realist than an idealist now.

More Jose Mourinho than Pep Guardiola.

Bitch please.

 

[sl1k]

Bitch please.

Pep 'give me the best players in the world (Brendan rodg-esque) and ill win titles' Guardiola = 21 trophies

Jose 'done it everywhere with teams of varying calibres and now at the best club in the world' Mourinho = 23 trophies.

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

When I was growing up I used to be a Conservative fan because my grandparents/ mum voted for them.

As I've become better educated I've become quite the leftie - and I've convinced my mum UKIP are bad so bonus. Although in general I don't think my viewpoint now fully reflects a left - right split, it's more complex than that.

I used to be right, and then I grew up.

were there any specific catalysts or changes in your life that led to your opinions/political positions shifting? Give me details.

 

[Jockney]

had the misfortune of engaging properly with radical politics for the first time only shortly before the Comrade Delta business basically destroyed the British Trotskyist project (ultimately probably a good thing).

Before that, and for sometime after, mostly unfocused anti-authority, vaguely left-liberation, politics – an instinctual distrust of parties and hierarchical organisations in any guise, which probably explains hanging out with self-destructive anarchists for much of my early 20s.

Post Corbyn I am where the people are. Still not a labour member and still at my core distrustful of electoral politics, but more than skeptical, full of contempt for left fatalism of the zizek kind. i think this is a unique dialectical opportunity and I think, like a lot of people who can see how awful the course ahead is going to be, ideological/theoretical purity* very much has to be a secondary consideration while the left continues to play on the back foot.

*this refers to disputes about strategy (remain vs lexit) and other historical internecine conflicts (Boring debates about Marxism-Leninism vs other lines of revolutionary theory that don't mean anything to most people). It doesn't mean that we fucking bend to reactionary bullshit arguments about immigration and identity politics.

 

[JaseTheVillain]

were there any specific catalysts or changes in your life that led to your opinions/political positions shifting? Give me details.

I grew up in a racist, xenophobic shithole known as Bloxwich (small town in Walsall), had friends and ended up 'supporting' UKIP (too young to vote). Moved to Australia and moved a bit more left after living in a foreign country where there is a lot of right leaning people, came back here and saw the shit going on under a 'centre-right' (more right than centre in my experience) government, learned more about Marxism and socialism, became a kind of hippy and ended up far more left. As I say, it was literally as I grew up.

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

had the misfortune of engaging properly with radical politics for the first time only shortly before the Comrade Delta business basically destroyed the British Trotskyist project (ultimately probably a good thing).

Before that, and for sometime after, mostly unfocused anti-authority, vaguely left-liberation, politics – an instinctual distrust of parties and hierarchical organisations in any guise, which probably explains hanging out with self-destructive anarchists for much of my early 20s.

Post Corbyn I am where the people are. Still not a labour member and still at my core distrustful of electoral politics, but more than skeptical, full of contempt for left fatalism of the zizek kind. i think this is a unique dialectical opportunity and I think, like a lot of people who can see how awful the course ahead is going to be, ideological/theoretical purity* very much has to be a secondary consideration while the left continues to play on the back foot.

*this refers to disputes about strategy (remain vs lexit) and other historical internecine conflicts (Boring debates about Marxism-Leninism vs other lines of revolutionary theory that don't mean anything to most people). It doesn't mean that we fucking bend to reactionary bullshit arguments about immigration and identity politics.

I started engaging with radical politics at a similar time and the Comrade Delta stuff was useful, at least for me, in determining what my radical politics weren't (i.e. not those guys).

I think the actual motivators for the drift were my complete loss of faith in any sort of electoral politics (for which both Tony Blair and Nick Clegg played no small parts) and also stuff going on locally - the killing of Mark Duggan and associated police cover up.

I think I ended up in anarchist (or libertarian communist) politics partly through it being attractive as a logical endpoint to a lot of principles I claim to subscribe to, but also because the only people doing the politically useful stuff round me seemed to be the anarchists.

 

[Abertawe]

I'm still finding myself. I've got two elder relatives that are lords, Donald Anderson & Michael Heseltine. I don't believe there is a party that truly reflects my beliefs but I suppose that's true of nearly everyone. For me it all comes down to the notion of money and it should serve the entirety of humanity in a positive manner. We're nowhere near that ideal though. Money is used to destroy & control as far as I can see.

I'm very underwhelmed at the state of the world and I believe you're all fooling yourselves by trying to lay claim to any particular ideology. Money is the only ideology in all but every part of the world. A nation only survives if the forces controlling the money allows them to do so. I would love for someone to advise me why I'm wrong but I believe the world is manipulated by faces that you can't see. We may buy into the illusion of free and open elections but deep down we surely must know those we vote for are merely puppets designed to confuse & distort from what's truly important.

 

[Techno Natch]

In the last few years I've become much less interested in party politics and tend to attach myself to certain causes instead. Drug policy was always there but I'm more involved in animal welfare and have recently been involved in starting up a care workers network in Bristol. I think it's easier to make or influence change if you focus on the things you really want to support. Or at least I enjoy it more and feel more empowered anyway.

I wonder if I'm getting more anarchist but there is still lots that I don't agree with there.

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

I wonder if I'm getting more anarchist but there is still lots that I don't agree with there.

What parts of anarchism don't you agree with?

 

[Techno Natch]

What parts of anarchism don't you agree with?

Lots is an overstatement to be fair. It's more of a feeling that it's not realistic and especially as ever growing enough to become reality. For example I strongly agree with the policy of no boarders but I don't see it as being realistic.

To be fair it's only something I've started to consider in recent times so I'm still learning about it really.

 

[Jockney]

I'm still finding myself. I've got two elder relatives that are lords, Donald Anderson & Michael Heseltine.

Of course, that is the point. I don't think the consent of a middle class london boy who purports to be working class can be manufactured tbh.

There are at least two people on the left that I know either personally or through other people that come from similar backgrounds, though, including one whose father was in Thatcher's cabinet.

 

[Abertawe]

There are at least two people on the left that I know either personally or through other people that come from similar backgrounds, though, including one whose father was in Thatcher's cabinet.

I'm not getting you?

 

[Jockney]

I'm not getting you?

You said two of your elder relatives were Donald Anderson and Michael Hesseltine?

 

[Abertawe]

You said two of your elder relatives were Donald Anderson and Michael Hesseltine?

Yeah?

 

[Jockney]

I started engaging with radical politics at a similar time and the Comrade Delta stuff was useful, at least for me, in determining what my radical politics weren't (i.e. not those guys).

I think the actual motivators for the drift were my complete loss of faith in any sort of electoral politics (for which both Tony Blair and Nick Clegg played no small parts) and also stuff going on locally - the killing of Mark Duggan and associated police cover up.

I think I ended up in anarchist (or libertarian communist) politics partly through it being attractive as a logical endpoint to a lot of principles I claim to subscribe to, but also because the only people doing the politically useful stuff round me seemed to be the anarchists.

I have a lot of time for anarchists (proper anarchists not Ancaps) and I agree with you that they can be an organisational bulwark for a lot of communities, especially when it comes to housing and public space issues. On the other hand, they sustain themselves on a moral ballast that I don't think will ever lead anywhere. A small, depressed, often paranoid collective (for good reason, given Met infiltration and targetting by fascists) that doesn't really want to be anything more than agonistic and agitative -- "if you don't get it, you never will". They also, for the most part, don't know how to take care of themselves and end up pushing their younger, more vulnerable members into worsening mental health.

 

[Jockney]

I'm not getting you?

Sort of reveals your 'poncey, middle class' insults as projection on your part -- a redundant one at that, because no-one really gives a fuck if your politics are sound.

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

Lots is an overstatement to be fair. It's more of a feeling that it's not realistic and especially as ever growing enough to become reality. For example I strongly agree with the policy of no boarders but I don't see it as being realistic.

To be fair it's only something I've started to consider in recent times so I'm still learning about it really.

[sorry]Yeah, anarcho-purity around skiing really annoys me too.[/sorry]

I don't think many of the end goals of anarchism/libcom/libsoc are realistic in the short-to-medium term. I hold them because they're the correct positions to hold, not because I think they'll make it into the 2020 Labour Party manifesto. But also I think it's vital to fight for these positions and the principles that inform them - stuff like open borders, police abolitionism, prison abolitionism (and taking practical steps, wherever possible, to undermine the institutions that we oppose).

Partly we need to do this to create the space we need for our political possibilities but mainly because because of our solidarity with the victims of that violence. Feel like the battles we fight need to be tactical - so we can win, but the principles that inform those battles have to be consistent with our end goals.

 

[Abertawe]

Sort of reveals your 'poncey, middle class' insults as projection on your part -- a redundant one at that, because no-one really gives a fuck if your politics are sound.

Has man touched a nerve or summit? Why is it projection?

Insults too, straightener?

 

[Abertawe]

The solution to many of our problems is a one party state. Only then will real people power be achieved.

 

[AFCB_Mark]

Having taken the political compass test recently for another thread, I'm fairly centrist with a liberal slant. Some elements of Right-Libertarianism or Libertarian Conservatism do speak to me, but not all. For example I wouldn't subscribe to one of the basic Right-Lib views which is abolishing welfare, so I don't really fit with them. I do believe that the state has a role in upholding a framework of for example law and boarders, whilst allowing for individual sovereignty freedom of choice and civil liberty. For the most part I'm for non-interventionist laissez-faire economics.

Most of my family, parents and grandparents have been Tory, (my Dad has since migrated to UKIP) but I'm way more left and liberal socially speaking than them. Possibly just because of my age and the world I grew up in as compared with them. Although by the same token I'm probably to the right of some of you in this thread.

In terms of party politics, Labour doesn't really exist down here. Whilst the area has seen significant inward movement from London over the last 20 years, Labour support hasn't come with it somehow. Traditionally you're either Lib Dem or Conservative, although UKIP made significant ground over the LDs at the last election and are now the nearest opposition in most constituencies. I would like the Lib Dems to become stronger again although Tim Farron does my head in.

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

I have a lot of time for anarchists (proper anarchists not Ancaps) and I agree with you that they can be an organisational bulwark for a lot of communities, especially when it comes to housing and public space issues. On the other hand, they sustain themselves on a moral ballast that I don't think will ever lead anywhere. A small, depressed, often paranoid collective (for good reason, given Met infiltration and targetting by fascists) that doesn't really want to be anything more than agonistic and agitative -- "if you don't get it, you never will". They also, for the most part, don't know how to take care of themselves and end up pushing their younger, more vulnerable members into worsening mental health.

My experience hasn't been like that - or not totally at least. Obviously the parts of anarchist politics that are necessarily confrontational sometimes lead to the problems you outline. I don't think that's inevitable though but it does requires careful and patient organising to avoid, and a lot of older anarchists - particularly the white men who've been around for ages - are pretty shit at the care work needed to sustain a militant group.

Think it's also important to recognise that militant direct action stuff is only a relatively minor part of the broader spectrum of anarchist organising - stuff like work-place and community organising is just as important.