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Maharajah
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Let's go Cena, Cena Sucks, ect, ect.
But no, really, this is a thread I've been wanting to make for a little while now. Well, more specifically, since I was there at Summerslam and watched Cena have the match of the night with AJ Styles.
I basically just wanted to say, that's a classic match by any standards, but it's just a fucking regular day at the office for the guy. He does it all of the fucking time. So here's the question, and don't get mad when I ask it (I'm not even saying I agree with it, per se) and I just want to discuss how accurate (hell, if at all) it is... but,...
Is John Cena the best of all time?
Yeah, your initial reaction is "hahahaha, no", and I know, he "sucks" and that's a silly question and people like Shawn Michaels exist and whatever. But I just wanted to discuss the fact that...
He debuted in 2002 and won his first WWE Championship in 2005. And since that time he's been at the top and, by and large, he's given us more amazing matches than I can possibly think of. When I think of wrestlers who I consider to be "the best", for a lot of them I can count their classic matches on one hand. Guys like Chris Jericho, who we all know is brilliant... how many really, top, top matches has he had?
But with Cena, it's an embarrassment of riches. Over those 11 years that he's been at the top he's had loads of matches that are brilliant and really memorable... Just firing out a few from the top of my head:
Obviously, the recent example being Cena vs Styles from Summerslam this year. But in recent years he's been a part of a whole bunch of memorable matches... Seth Rollins last year, being destroyed by Lesnar the year before, a brilliant match with Daniel Bryan the year before that. He tends to lose all the time at Summerslam (a lot of the time, clean) but damn if he doesn't have great matches while doing so.
The 3 matches vs Kevin Owens last year were amazing.
Fighting Rob Van Dam at One Night Stand.
That other time he fought Lesnar, when Lesnar first came back.
A series of great matches with Randy Orton toward the end of 2009... in fact, a series of matches that helped get me back into WWE full time after 5 years of not really watching. The Iron Man and I Quit matches being particular highlights.
"Twice in a lifetime" matches VS The Rock. Maybe they weren't technical masterclasses and what not, but the sense of "big fight feel" during the build ups and the matches themselves are only achievable by having two men like that going head to head.
Some other very good main events of WM. Matches against Triple H and HBK were better than I remembered them being.
CM Punk at Money in the Bank. No more needs to be said. Actually, one more thing I'll add... a few months later they had another amazing match on Raw. Which featured like the only piledriver WWE has seen in over a decade...
Triple Threat against Seth and Lesnar at the Royal Rumble last year.
I've never actually seen a lot of them as well... I know he's supposed to have had an hour long classic with HBK that is often referred to as the best Raw match in history. And he apparently had a lot of great matches with Edge as well as the likes of JBL and Umaga.
And then there's the whole US title run, which I probably consider the greatest spell in that titles history since it's been in the WWE. Highlights include two absolutely amazing matches with Cesaro.
There are probably a bunch more I'm forgetting. But the man has a knack for having some brilliant matches. More than a guy who "can't wrestle" has, that's for sure.
Of course, it helps being in the spot he's in. Getting to have the big, main event matches all the time and given more time/effort/thought put into your whole career will lead to more chances to deliver these sorts of matches.
But really... who else is there who can compete? There are obvious names. Shawn Michaels, Triple H, The Undertaker, these people have had a whole boat load of classics too and have been doing it for a long, long time. But...
With Cenas 14 year career, it's been pretty much all at the top, all the time, with no slowing down. He has had injuries and a bit of time off, but he's been there for most of it. But using who I consider the best of those other three names as an example:
HBK: Probably Cena's biggest competition, but looking at his career... it spanned an impressive 26 years from debut to retirement. But of those 26 years... he won his first WWE title in 96, which is 12 years after he debuted. And then, of course, 2 years later he got injured and was out for 4 years. And then upon coming back in 2002 he was around for 8 more years... so he only really had 10 years doing it at the very top of the roster. But of course, like Cena, he had more classic matches than you can count. And he could have a great match against anybody... stick Cena against The Big Show and I'll be hitting the fast forward button for sure.
So yeah... for 12 years Cena has been delivering us amazing matches. Is he the best of all time? Debatable. But the very fact that it's debatable is interesting enough, to me. Loads of brilliant matches, pretty much non stop for over a decade. If you disagree that he's the best (As I said, I'm not even saying I agree really, I just want to discuss it), how close is he? Is it fair to discount his name from the discussion altogether? Or is a in with a genuine shout?
But no, really, this is a thread I've been wanting to make for a little while now. Well, more specifically, since I was there at Summerslam and watched Cena have the match of the night with AJ Styles.
I basically just wanted to say, that's a classic match by any standards, but it's just a fucking regular day at the office for the guy. He does it all of the fucking time. So here's the question, and don't get mad when I ask it (I'm not even saying I agree with it, per se) and I just want to discuss how accurate (hell, if at all) it is... but,...
Is John Cena the best of all time?
Yeah, your initial reaction is "hahahaha, no", and I know, he "sucks" and that's a silly question and people like Shawn Michaels exist and whatever. But I just wanted to discuss the fact that...
He debuted in 2002 and won his first WWE Championship in 2005. And since that time he's been at the top and, by and large, he's given us more amazing matches than I can possibly think of. When I think of wrestlers who I consider to be "the best", for a lot of them I can count their classic matches on one hand. Guys like Chris Jericho, who we all know is brilliant... how many really, top, top matches has he had?
But with Cena, it's an embarrassment of riches. Over those 11 years that he's been at the top he's had loads of matches that are brilliant and really memorable... Just firing out a few from the top of my head:
Obviously, the recent example being Cena vs Styles from Summerslam this year. But in recent years he's been a part of a whole bunch of memorable matches... Seth Rollins last year, being destroyed by Lesnar the year before, a brilliant match with Daniel Bryan the year before that. He tends to lose all the time at Summerslam (a lot of the time, clean) but damn if he doesn't have great matches while doing so.
The 3 matches vs Kevin Owens last year were amazing.
Fighting Rob Van Dam at One Night Stand.
That other time he fought Lesnar, when Lesnar first came back.
A series of great matches with Randy Orton toward the end of 2009... in fact, a series of matches that helped get me back into WWE full time after 5 years of not really watching. The Iron Man and I Quit matches being particular highlights.
"Twice in a lifetime" matches VS The Rock. Maybe they weren't technical masterclasses and what not, but the sense of "big fight feel" during the build ups and the matches themselves are only achievable by having two men like that going head to head.
Some other very good main events of WM. Matches against Triple H and HBK were better than I remembered them being.
CM Punk at Money in the Bank. No more needs to be said. Actually, one more thing I'll add... a few months later they had another amazing match on Raw. Which featured like the only piledriver WWE has seen in over a decade...
Triple Threat against Seth and Lesnar at the Royal Rumble last year.
I've never actually seen a lot of them as well... I know he's supposed to have had an hour long classic with HBK that is often referred to as the best Raw match in history. And he apparently had a lot of great matches with Edge as well as the likes of JBL and Umaga.
And then there's the whole US title run, which I probably consider the greatest spell in that titles history since it's been in the WWE. Highlights include two absolutely amazing matches with Cesaro.
There are probably a bunch more I'm forgetting. But the man has a knack for having some brilliant matches. More than a guy who "can't wrestle" has, that's for sure.
Of course, it helps being in the spot he's in. Getting to have the big, main event matches all the time and given more time/effort/thought put into your whole career will lead to more chances to deliver these sorts of matches.
But really... who else is there who can compete? There are obvious names. Shawn Michaels, Triple H, The Undertaker, these people have had a whole boat load of classics too and have been doing it for a long, long time. But...
With Cenas 14 year career, it's been pretty much all at the top, all the time, with no slowing down. He has had injuries and a bit of time off, but he's been there for most of it. But using who I consider the best of those other three names as an example:
HBK: Probably Cena's biggest competition, but looking at his career... it spanned an impressive 26 years from debut to retirement. But of those 26 years... he won his first WWE title in 96, which is 12 years after he debuted. And then, of course, 2 years later he got injured and was out for 4 years. And then upon coming back in 2002 he was around for 8 more years... so he only really had 10 years doing it at the very top of the roster. But of course, like Cena, he had more classic matches than you can count. And he could have a great match against anybody... stick Cena against The Big Show and I'll be hitting the fast forward button for sure.
So yeah... for 12 years Cena has been delivering us amazing matches. Is he the best of all time? Debatable. But the very fact that it's debatable is interesting enough, to me. Loads of brilliant matches, pretty much non stop for over a decade. If you disagree that he's the best (As I said, I'm not even saying I agree really, I just want to discuss it), how close is he? Is it fair to discount his name from the discussion altogether? Or is a in with a genuine shout?