Match Day Liverpool v Arsenal, Saturday 4th March 17:30

[johnnytodd]

How are these 2 sides in the top 6 they look shite....no wonder English sides do fuck all in zEurope....Arsenal have gone backwards big time in the last couple of months.

 

[SALTIRE]

How are these 2 sides in the top 6 they look shite....no wonder English sides do fuck all in zEurope....Arsenal have gone backwards big time in the last couple of months.

 

[G-Dragon]

Great game that. I thought we were gonna lose after Arsenal scored. We did well to contain sanchez after that goal.

Other than that, Adam Lallana.

 

[Gilly?]

Do any Liverpool fans actually like Can? The few times I see him him he just seems a liability

I like Can, I just don't think he's fully fit at the minute. When he's on song he's an absolute unit. I don't think he's staying though, gone in the summer.

 

[G-Dragon]

I like Can, I just don't think he's fully fit at the minute. When he's on song he's an absolute unit. I don't think he's staying though, gone in the summer.

Hope not. He is still young and was seen as future LFC captain last season ffs. One bad run of form and people already hounding him out.

 

[SALTIRE]

Indeed, he has his brainfart moments and does give the ball away at times needlessly; but there is a player with great potential there, and hope he can develop further next year.

 

[Chelsea Royale]

Liverpool lot on here are embarrassing.

First you were bigging yourselves us as if you were going to win the league this year (as usual)

Now your in the top for a short period and your acting like the season is over and you got top 4 cemented.

 

[Bilo]

It's not even about Sanchez really for me. Whether he's on the pitch or not, it's the same. An absolutely shambolic mess. A totally disorganised, utterly dispirited, cowardly, expensively-assembled mess. I've seen this away to United, City and Everton so far this season (and probably more but that's all that springs to mind) but it's always the same. We are a stupid mess.

Looking at our remaining fixtures, this season has the potential to get A LOT worse. United and City at the Emirates, Spurs away, and trips to teams and managers we rarely get the better of away (Palace, WBA, Stoke). Could be a really ugly end for AW.

I read this picturing you on Arsenal Fan TV and it made it so much funnier.

Truth is though, this changes nothing unfortunately. Because the case is still the same; Klopp's tactics is fantastic for sides who try to play but absolutely worthless against teams sitting back. Right now, the "big" teams are still too proud to play us with 11 behind the ball: that's why both Spurs and Arsenal came to us and looked significantly more shit than any of the teams that have beaten us since january 1st.

However, at the end of his tenure at Dortmund, even Bayern under Pep sat back and played it long. That's where we are headed as well, and the only way out of this is Klopp finding a way to regularly beat a parked bus. Beating Arsenal as great, as was beating Spurs and all other big teams (except United, go figure). It won't continue though. I'd be amazed if any team comes to Anfield next season without sitting back. That's the problem.

 

[Bilo]

Looking through the highlights again, it goes very well to show why we can't play like that against Leicester or Burnley.

At 0-0, at Anfield, it's a goal kick from Mignolet who isn't exactly Neuer with his feet. One header on and Arsenal are defending 3v3 (at one point 2v3). As avoidable as an STD, but looking at the full back's positions it shows exactly how that goal shouldn't have happened. It was a gift that the park the bus, one point is enough-teams never ever do.

Second goal is also very easily avoidable for Arsenal's perspective. They are very well in position, mostly anyway. But when you're going to sit back, as they should have (and at this point kind of tried to), your winger has to cover their winger (which all teams that have beaten us so far this season have done). Instead, Wenger played Welbeck on the left and Mané had all the space and time in the world to put us 2-0 up. You could blame Monreal of course, but if you're going to beat us Monreal can't be on Mané because you'll be outnumbered on our left hand side.

The third goal obviously wouldn't have happened if we weren't 2-1 up.

So most of this can really be put down to Wenger's pride, I suppose. He probably thought he could do what everyone else has failed to do, too proud to do what everyone else has succeeded with. Poch was just the same. Arrogance is the only reasonable explanation I can think of. Drilling your team to sit back isn't such a difficult thing to do with a talented group of players, even in a one off game. But Arsenal, Spurs (Chelsea, City) didn't even try and that's why we won. Not because we've turned a corner or anything.

Next week we are up against Burnley, who will play a flat, narrow back four with their wingers covering ours, constantly putting Lallana/Firmino in a 2v4. It gives all the time in the world to our full backs but we aren't exactly threatening when we cross from deep. Then, when they counter, their forwards will be 2v2 against our centre backs. Yesterday, unfortunately, showed absolutely nothing to suggest that we will handle it any better than we have up until now.

 

[SALTIRE]

I read this picturing you on Arsenal Fan TV and it made it so much funnier.

Truth is though, this changes nothing unfortunately. Because the case is still the same; Klopp's tactics is fantastic for sides who try to play but absolutely worthless against teams sitting back. Right now, the "big" teams are still too proud to play us with 11 behind the ball: that's why both Spurs and Arsenal came to us and looked significantly more shit than any of the teams that have beaten us since january 1st.

However, at the end of his tenure at Dortmund, even Bayern under Pep sat back and played it long. That's where we are headed as well, and the only way out of this is Klopp finding a way to regularly beat a parked bus. Beating Arsenal as great, as was beating Spurs and all other big teams (except United, go figure). It won't continue though. I'd be amazed if any team comes to Anfield next season without sitting back. That's the problem.

A formation change may help, and he may switch next season to his preferred 4231 or even a back 3 like we saw in the second half against Leicester. I'm sure they'll be working on it to develop a way of overcoming this ploy for next season.

 

[Ablur]

Really good performance but it's expected against teams who try and come out and play against us as it suits us so much.

Cue a draw/loss to Burnley next week!

Lallana was fantastic. Coutinho is starting to hit a little bit of form again now as he's been anonymous since coming back from injury. Mane is a bit surprise this season, I wasn't expecting him to be this good.

If we'd lost this I would've said top 4 is gone but now it's probably in our hands, and our remaining fixtures are probably the easiest on paper out of the top 6 but no doubt that'll work against us judging by how this seasons gone.

 

[smat]

Really good performance but it's expected against teams who try and come out and play against us

How dare you accuse us of that.

 

[Bilo]

A formation change may help, and he may switch next season to his preferred 4231 or even a back 3 like we saw in the second half against Leicester. I'm sure they'll be working on it to develop a way of overcoming this ploy for next season.

What we need, more than anything, is finding a way to threat from deep, so that our full backs can't be ignored the way they can be now. The A1 solution to that is a striker who combines good movement with good aerial ability (he plays for Bayern now).

I sincerely doubt we'll find such a player within our budget. If I knew how we're going to work this out then I wouldn't be here would I, but something that has struck me is how little players seem to dribble and attempt to beat a man these days.

The emergence of Guardiola and tiki-taka (regardless of current history-revisionism) changed football and how it's played to its very core, parallelled only by examples such as totaal voetball and catenaccio. The schools of pressure currently dominant in European football were un-thought of before Guardiola. But much like any person changing anything, others then take over and take it further. Klopp has been a huge part of that when it comes to pressing. Our press today is much more sophisticated than that of Barcelona 09-11, for example.

But one change that hasn't really been fine-tuned yet, is the extreme switch in value from a good dribble to a good pass. Most goals you see today come from passing patterns, rather than anything else. Same goes for us. Watch highlights from games pre-2009 and goals scored from individual efforts and dribbles are much more frequent.

I think that's where us, as a club, and Klopp as a manager can take us further. We're at the very end of the era which will surely be described as the tiki-taka-era, or possible the pressing-era (Leicester, Portugal, Atletico). When an era ends, the opposite tends to emerge. We need to move away from the passing patterns so dominant in football, and figure out what will replace it. Dribbles are just a simple example of what we moved away from, they're not a solution going forward.

But right now, we're kind of trying to do what Dortmund did with Lewandowski without Lewandowski. It's a good system in its own right so it still delivers results, but right now, it isn't working as intended in any sense of the word. That's the challenge Klopp is facing, unless we have £100M stashed away somewhere to throw on a forward. It's easy to forget that in between all the tactics and transfers and psychology and bla bla bla a world class striker can carry a team to the top of the world, if the timing is right.

Mane is a bit surprise this season, I wasn't expecting him to be this good.

Yeah, when the second went in and it said "12 goals this season" I was baffled. He's been fantastic. To be at 0,5 goals per game from any other position than lone forward is always a fantastic return.

Also, he seems like the perfect quality for us. Good enough to be appreciated and never one to replace, but still not good enough for Real Madrid to come calling. Good times.

 

[Bilo]

How dare you accuse us of that.

Well pointed out my dear smat. You didn't sit back but you didn't try to play either. Cech averages 6 long balls per game. Last night he delivered 30+ (34 I think was the number).

At least Gibbs wasn't your captain though or it would have been five and you know it.