Maidstone

[Railway Blue]

I've always believed that Maidstone were a self-sufficient club who have built organically, but someone on Deva Chat has said that their holding company (2 owners) have pumped £3m in over recent seasons to build the new stand and install the 3G pitch. Is that true? I kind of have a soft spot for Stones for the reason above, but are they just another bank-rolled club? I guess I'm a bit naïve but I hear all the bleating on here from Stones fans about how they don't have a pot to piss in, but if this poster on Deva Chat is right that's a load of bollux. What's the truth Stones fans? I did speak to some Ebbsfleet fans at our recent game who were clearly in denial that they were bank-rolled.

 

[F Side Rat]

Isn't there a difference between capital investment and P&L investment though?
If they had pumped in 3m just to fund OTT wages that would be one thing....but if that money was used on capital infrasturcture that provides improved revenue, shouldn't we be welcoming that?
The standard of facilities in the amateur/non league game in England is, in parts, laughable. Governing/local authorities appear unwilling to do anything so private funding like this is a positive?
Not sure many (if any) clubs at this level could afford significant capital investment based solely on self generated income. Some cannot generate the level of revenue to support the wage bill.

 

[Bendubz]

Compared to the other teams in the division we don't have much, but we certainly wouldn't be anywhere near so high without the investment from Terry and Oliver. They took us over when we were on the brink of going out of business for a 2nd time, then helped bring us home after 20 years away. The vast majority of the money they've put in has gone into the infrastructure, especially last year when the pitch needed replacing a year early on top of the requirement to increase the capacity, though even then the pitch was replaced from the accrued profit of the previous few years.

If I had to sum it up I'd say we're sort of bankrolled, but the investors want to reach the point where the club is self-sufficient whether they stay or not.

 

[Master D]

Add them to the official Bankrolled Club list then.

 

[Railway Blue]

Well I asked a question and I got a very satisfactory answer. It sort of lessens the pain of the 2 hammerings you gave us last year. We would like to increase the size of our bar, because it's like a sardine tin, but we can't even contemplate it unless we reaches the FA Cup 3rd round and drew Man U at O.T.

A better question of who are the bank-rolled clubs would be who aren't the bank-rolled clubs. There's us and Halifax. I suppose Wrexham would claim not to be bank-rolled but the University have bailed them out as well as the money they get simply for being welsh from the Welsh Assembly. I think this money may have stopped though.

 

[Monkey Tennis]

Not exactly linked, but not worth a new thread either - we had a 'meet the director' night ahead of our game against Maidstone today, where it was revealed our wage bill went up from £700k at the start of last season to £900k now - and Cox was signing players without proper medicals!
And then booting off when he didn't get things his own way.
No other candidates interviewed for his replacement as no one decent applied. Also can't secure loans to redevelop the stadium, so just gonna spend on sorting out the ground and getting up to required standard.

On the point of discussion, I'd say we were bankrolled at Conference North level (players on nearly £1k p/w), but current wage bill is about right now.

And on Ebbsfleet, I know that they offered one of our players £3k p/w but turned them down as a show of loyalty to Cox... Probably regretting that now!

 

[Silver Stone]

On the field we're self sufficient, it's off it where the owners have dipped into their pockets. The new stand was around £600-700k, pitch relay around £150-200k, main stand extension around £400-500k. I suppose if you add from scratch (before the ground was built) it could be over £3m sure.

We're eternally grateful for Messrs Ash and Casey and well aware of what they've done for us, and we're so glad they spent where they did rather than spunk it all on the playing budget like so many do.

 

[DontBringBertie]

Not exactly linked, but not worth a new thread either - we had a 'meet the director' night ahead of our game against Maidstone today, where it was revealed our wage bill went up from £700k at the start of last season to £900k now - and Cox was signing players without proper medicals!
And then booting off when he didn't get things his own way.
No other candidates interviewed for his replacement as no one decent applied. Also can't secure loans to redevelop the stadium, so just gonna spend on sorting out the ground and getting up to required standard.

On the point of discussion, I'd say we were bankrolled at Conference North level (players on nearly £1k p/w), but current wage bill is about right now.

And on Ebbsfleet, I know that they offered one of our players £3k p/w but turned them down as a show of loyalty to Cox... Probably regretting that now!

Surely a £900k wage budget on crowds of 1,300 qualifies as being bankrolled?!

We're not bankrolled as the mythical investors we were promised back in May haven't turned up yet. We'll stick to our £100k budget for now.

 

[Farleigh]

As I understand it the stadium investment is a loan, repayable to the owners who are long time fans. We have been lucky for most of the years since coming home, having full time crowds but part time wages. This season we have gone 3/4 full time (whatever that means) for the first time in several decades. If anyone has any evidence that wage bill is not covered by our decent crowds, then feel free to publish it here.

 

[Railway Blue]

Not exactly linked, but not worth a new thread either - we had a 'meet the director' night ahead of our game against Maidstone today, where it was revealed our wage bill went up from £700k at the start of last season to £900k now - and Cox was signing players without proper medicals!
And then booting off when he didn't get things his own way.
No other candidates interviewed for his replacement as no one decent applied. Also can't secure loans to redevelop the stadium, so just gonna spend on sorting out the ground and getting up to required standard.

On the point of discussion, I'd say we were bankrolled at Conference North level (players on nearly £1k p/w), but current wage bill is about right now.

And on Ebbsfleet, I know that they offered one of our players £3k p/w but turned them down as a show of loyalty to Cox... Probably regretting that now!

I'm sorry but you don't have a wage budget of £900k on gates of 1,177.

 

[EnglishRed]

900k wage budget, average crowds of under 1300 last season...but not bankrolled.

Classic.

 

[Railway Blue]

Well apart from Chester and Halifax I'll take it that every other team in this league has a degree of bank-rolledness.

 

[Master D]

Apart from Chester being bankrolled by multi-billion pound worldwide firm MBNA you mean.

 

[Monkey Tennis]

Wait, I've never said we're not "bankrolled" now, just that it's more in line with what the majority of clubs in this division are doing!
How many clubs are actually self-sufficient on gates alone? Two or three in this division, I'd imagine.

 

[Chief Rocka]

I presume proper teams, you know, Pools, Orient, Wrexham, Tranmere are excluded from this 'bankrolled' conversation as it's only applicable to the natural tinpotters?

Am I doing it right?

 

[slaphead]

Wait, I've never said we're not "bankrolled" now, just that it's more in line with what the majority of clubs in this division are doing!
How many clubs are actually self-sufficient on gates alone? Two or three in this division, I'd imagine.

Not just gates but with sponsorship and other income, in our case the Chelsea deal, we've turned a (very small) profit in the last two seasons.

 

[Railway Blue]

Apart from Chester being bankrolled by multi-billion pound worldwide firm MBNA you mean.

We use their state-of-the-art training facilities.
Unfortunately no money
Nice try!

 

[SGW]

A better question of who are the bank-rolled clubs would be who aren't the bank-rolled clubs. There's us and Halifax. I suppose Wrexham would claim not to be bank-rolled but the University have bailed them out as well as the money they get simply for being welsh from the Welsh Assembly. I think this money may have stopped though.

You'll have to enlighten me on this Welsh Assembly money as that has passed me by.

As for the uni bankrolling us, you could just as easily say the (allegedly) peppercorn rent you pay to Chester council is just as much being bankrolled.

The reality is that neither of us are bankrolled and we both struggle to make ends meet. Your's is obviously a bigger struggle with your smaller crowds but, on the other hand, you don't have massive floodlights to maintain

 

[Railway Blue]

Like I said on my original post the Welsh Assembly money has finished since you are no longer an international venue.

The council took control of the ground in lieu of the unpaid £25k a year we were supposed to pay when we folded in 2009 that was guaranteed by Morrison Shand, but Morrison Shand abrogated their responsibilities after the Vaughan's never paid it either. The council are for once supporting us, but all the ground maintenance payments have to be found by us. Our CEO managed to increase our budget this year by various endeavours, but all the advantages of that is lost by the burden of having to pay off McCarthy, whose 2 and a half year contract extension was a massive error by our board.

 

[Luke Imp]

Not exactly linked, but not worth a new thread either - we had a 'meet the director' night ahead of our game against Maidstone today, where it was revealed our wage bill went up from £700k at the start of last season to £900k now - and Cox was signing players without proper medicals!
And then booting off when he didn't get things his own way.
No other candidates interviewed for his replacement as no one decent applied. Also can't secure loans to redevelop the stadium, so just gonna spend on sorting out the ground and getting up to required standard.

On the point of discussion, I'd say we were bankrolled at Conference North level (players on nearly £1k p/w), but current wage bill is about right now.

And on Ebbsfleet, I know that they offered one of our players £3k p/w but turned them down as a show of loyalty to Cox... Probably regretting that now!

Who on earth have you got in your squad with wages in line with that sort of budget?

 

[Ronaldo to Wrexham]

I have heard everything now - Wrexham bankrolled!!! The University who are bankrolling us??? have taken our training ground a did absouloutly sod all to maintain the Racecourse - We had to negotiate with them a fee, to lease the ground long term to ensure that we basically had a ground in the future. Then the Cardiff Assembly ( or as you call them the Welsh Assmebly) who have talked about helping us but have yet to really deliver. Hopefully sometime they can agree to some funding as there are areas of our ground that need repair . The Kop is an eyesore and has been out of use for years - (yet we are bankrolled??). The reason our budget is bigger than Chester's is down to the fans - season ticket holders, Trust members, fans paying on the gate, build the budget and other off the pitch fund raising events such as the 2 concerts held at the Racecourse.

 

[Monkey Tennis]

Who on earth have you got in your squad with wages in line with that sort of budget?

Not sure what how a £900k budget is broken down, nor if that's just players, but Asa Hall and Byron Harrison are on roughly £1k p/w and we're paying the new lad from Grimsby £800 of his weekly wage. I think some of our 'reserve' players are on bigger wages than they would have been last season.

We did make £250k from player sales, but obviously that's not a sustainable model either.

 

[Raymondo316]

From what i hear our playing budget this season is about 500k, so with us averaging crowds of 2400-2500 i wouldn't really say our budget is anything over the top.

 

[Railway Blue]

I have heard everything now - Wrexham bankrolled!!! The University who are bankrolling us??? have taken our training ground a did absouloutly sod all to maintain the Racecourse - We had to negotiate with them a fee, to lease the ground long term to ensure that we basically had a ground in the future. Then the Cardiff Assembly ( or as you call them the Welsh Assmebly) who have talked about helping us but have yet to really deliver. Hopefully sometime they can agree to some funding as there are areas of our ground that need repair . The Kop is an eyesore and has been out of use for years - (yet we are bankrolled??). The reason our budget is bigger than Chester's is down to the fans - season ticket holders, Trust members, fans paying on the gate, build the budget and other off the pitch fund raising events such as the 2 concerts held at the Racecourse.

I know all that. I think the term bank-rolled needs examining. Do you deny that the University prevented you from going into administration when they took ownership of the Racecourse? Or did they have their own agenda? I do know that we've both had several unscrupulous owners that were all out for their own ends. Whatever your situation, and a lot of it is speculation {and bollux on Deva Chat}, I hope that we can be playing EFL games against each other within the next 10 years.

 

[Bendubz]

It would be nice to see where on a scale of bankrolling everybody is. Would need to take into account lots of variables though; amount of money invested, period of time the owner has been an investor, infrastructure-wage ratio of investment, amount invested in the last calendar year. Obviously the likes of Billericay and FGR would be at one end, with the Fan owned clubs at the other, but inbetween would be interesting

 

[Ronaldo to Wrexham]

I know all that. I think the term bank-rolled needs examining. Do you deny that the University prevented you from going into administration when they took ownership of the Racecourse? Or did they have their own agenda? I do know that we've both had several unscrupulous owners that were all out for their own ends. Whatever your situation, and a lot of it is speculation {and bollux on Deva Chat}, I hope that we can be playing EFL games against each other within the next 10 years.

I think from the time Mr Gutterman ( I am sure you heard of him) fronted for that very nice man Alex Hamilton we had a spell where it seemed like a constant battle. Moss and Dickens ( and then Roberts) came in with what appeared to be good intentions and then seemed intent on selling to anyone but the trust, whilst yet again leaving the club in a mess. A deal was struck with the University - however they then owned ground and the training facility at Colliers Park. Did they have an agenda - who knows but it doesn't appear to have all been beneficial to the club. It would be great to be beating you back in the football league and Tranmere too - taking 12 points of both and playing the likes of Crewe and hopefully Shrewsbury (who for some reason are doing well in League 1 but still have time to drop like a stone into their usual relegation battle) would be great.

 

[Bluandwite]

We use their state-of-the-art training facilities.
Unfortunately no money
Nice try!

Not any more, think we ony ever used it during pre-season previously as well, not sure why.

 

[Master D]

I presume proper teams, you know, Pools, Orient, Wrexham, Tranmere are excluded from this 'bankrolled' conversation as it's only applicable to the natural tinpotters?

Am I doing it right?

Correct. We have no issue with any of the above Proper Clubs™ suddenly getting a rich owner involved and spending their way out of this division to take them back where they belong. Torquay as well, as they make up the Famous Five of this season.

 

[RLC]

It would be nice to see where on a scale of bankrolling everybody is. Would need to take into account lots of variables though; amount of money invested, period of time the owner has been an investor, infrastructure-wage ratio of investment, amount invested in the last calendar year. Obviously the likes of Billericay and FGR would be at one end, with the Fan owned clubs at the other, but inbetween would be interesting

As strange as it sounds, we are one of the least bankrolled clubs outside of the fan-owned teams. Mark Palios is relatively wealthy but has not got millions to pump into the club and is trying to make the club sustainable. Palios put in £500k to acquire the club three years ago and paid a substantial amount to keep the academy running, but does not provide funds towards the wage budget.

We are totally reliant on gate receipts and income generated by events at the ground and outside initiatives like the coaching we do in China. Hence, the catastrophe we had in the summer with the Wirral Live concert making a six figure loss is one of the reasons we are struggling. Mellon recruited badly in the close season and there are no more funds available to rebalance the squad.

 

[Silver Stone]

As strange as it sounds, we are one of the least bankrolled clubs outside of the fan-owned teams. Mark Palios is relatively wealthy but has not got millions to pump into the club and is trying to make the club sustainable. Palios put in £500k to acquire the club three years ago and paid a substantial amount to keep the academy running, but does not provide funds towards the wage budget.

We are totally reliant on gate receipts and income generated by events at the ground and outside initiatives like the coaching we do in China. Hence, the catastrophe we had in the summer with the Wirral Live concert making a six figure loss is one of the reasons we are struggling. Mellon recruited badly in the close season and there are no more funds available to rebalance the squad.

Like ourselves, the money our owners have put in has been to make sure the ground was up to par, not to financially dope the squad. Given our history I'm perfectly okay with that.