Paul Hurst

[pontoonlew]

I don't get your constant animosity towards Hurst.
He might not be everybodys cup of tea but under him we are consistently around the top 4 and but for an incompetent referee in the P/O Final he would have got us back into the Football League last season, or have you forgotten that?
Also he seems to be a very good man manager, and all the players in the squad or out of it all seem to like him.
We are a lot better off with him than without him, make no mistake.

And comments like that are exactly what I mean about just accepting second best.

Barnet and Bristol Rovers have rebuilt quicker than us. Cheltenham look like being the next lot. Whichever way you look at it, with the time he's had and the money he's been allowed, it's not acceptable to have made very little progress in 3/4 years. Yes our squad is better, yes more people are coming through the gates. But we're still here, we're still knocking around the top 4 without a sniff at the title. We still fail to break down shite teams at home and still haven't found a decent attacking midfielder.

4 years he's had to do this, with almost exclusive support. Hell we gave him 100k to spend out of our own pockets. Yet we're STILL miles off the top in January, we're still struggling to break down teams like Guiseley at home. We still made a shite start thanks to his fucking ridiculous early season rotation policy, for the 3rd season running.

These aren't opinions, these things are actually happening. Yet part of our fan base don't like to hear it because it's 'negative' and he's a good bloke.

 

[pontoonlew]

To go back on this, you mention a number of better managers however most of them have not only been predominantly Southern based but have deep roots in Southern Non-League football and therefore were not really viable options for us due to location. Perhaps the only one of those who has beaten Hurst to promotion that might have been an option for us is now managing a club lower than us in the table. For me it's not a case of accpeting second, it's more to do with whether or not there is a realistic and better alternative available.

Wasn't really the point. The point is more than he's been allowed these opportunities and others have surpassed him, meaning managers in lesser situations have surpassed Hurst.

I'm not saying we'd have been able to have those managers ourselves. However what those other managers have shown is that with a different approach, we'd probably be a FL club now.

 

[Gashead]

Wasn't really the point. The point is more than he's been allowed these opportunities and others have surpassed him, meaning managers in lesser situations have surpassed Hurst.

I'm not saying we'd have been able to have those managers ourselves. However what those other managers have shown is that with a different approach, we'd probably be a FL club now.

It's a tough one, because if you lot didn't have such poor/inconsistent starts to the season you'd probably have gone up by now. The end of season late run gives optimism but then the same thing happens the following season. Its a strange one.

In truth, the Conference is a bastard of a league. Last season, we maybe got outplayed/100% deserved to lose three times all season (Barnet, Alty, Braintree?) and only just got promoted. This season, we've already been outplayed more than that and yet if we win the next two we'll be in the automatic promotion spots - albeit other teams will have games in hand. If you have a good squad which consistently performs at L2 level, you're in with a huge shout. We've seen in the past (Wrexham on 98, you lot a few times, Luton a few times) that isn't really the case with the Conf.

I've wondered if Hurst is the problem for Grimsby, but I think he'd get you lot into a good position in L2 post-promotion. Until the promotion changes in the Conf come into effect though, it will always be the Conference which is the struggle. Its just whether you can get somebody else in who will actually secure promotion. Big risk, I dunno if it would work.

 

[GodsGift]

The issue with the number of promotion spots isn't going to go away anytime soon, if at all, so Grimsby have just got to play the system and go and win the title. Sounds easy I know but I just don't see Hurst being the man to deliver that.

 

[pontoonlew]

It's a tough one, because if you lot didn't have such poor/inconsistent starts to the season you'd probably have gone up by now. The end of season late run gives optimism but then the same thing happens the following season. Its a strange one.

In truth, the Conference is a bastard of a league. Last season, we maybe got outplayed/100% deserved to lose three times all season (Barnet, Alty, Braintree?) and only just got promoted. This season, we've already been outplayed more than that and yet if we win the next two we'll be in the automatic promotion spots - albeit other teams will have games in hand. If you have a good squad which consistently performs at L2 level, you're in with a huge shout. We've seen in the past (Wrexham on 98, you lot a few times, Luton a few times) that isn't really the case with the Conf.

I've wondered if Hurst is the problem for Grimsby, but I think he'd get you lot into a good position in L2 post-promotion. Until the promotion changes in the Conf come into effect though, it will always be the Conference which is the struggle. Its just whether you can get somebody else in who will actually secure promotion. Big risk, I dunno if it would work.

As much as I don't rate Hurst, you can count the play off final to that list of games you should've lost

 

[CrazyImp]

Hurst is out of a job anyway if he fails to take Grimsby up this season, and there is of course a real chance of that happening with Cheltenham looking unshakable at the minute, and then the likes of the moneyed tinpotters. I'm not certain an opportunity would come around for a FL club for him again if he fails this time, in that aspect he would be a fool not to take it if offered to him.

I actually think it would be a good appointment for Notts for the short-term as others have said, Steady Eddie manager who is particularly adept defensively. Wouldn't write off a late play-off push with the squad there.

 

[GTFCfish]

And comments like that are exactly what I mean about just accepting second best.

Barnet and Bristol Rovers have rebuilt quicker than us. Cheltenham look like being the next lot. Whichever way you look at it, with the time he's had and the money he's been allowed, it's not acceptable to have made very little progress in 3/4 years.

Very little progress?
When he came here we were mid table going nowhere. The next season after a shocking start we went on a huge unbeaten run to the verge of the play offs before being robbed at Fleetwood then falling away. Then the next 3 seasons in the play offs culminating in one dodgy ref away from promotion.
So how is improving every year not making progress?
I am not somebody who thinks the sun shines out of his arse, but i do think he comes in for a lot of unfair criticism from certain quarters.
I do think that this current team should be capable of winning the league this year, and play offs definately not what we were hoping for this season, but with this team i would fancy us to go one better and win them this year.

 

[GTFCfish]

I'm not certain an opportunity would come around for a FL club for him again if he fails this time, in that aspect he would be a fool not to take it if offered to him.

Agree with this, if he does leave i would wish him good luck, and not blame him in the slightest for going.

 

[GEORGE]

Agree with this, if he does leave i would wish him good luck, and not blame him in the slightest for going.

Problem is if he left -- How many players might he also take ???

 

[pontoonlew]

Very little progress?
When he came here we were mid table going nowhere. The next season after a shocking start we went on a huge unbeaten run to the verge of the play offs before being robbed at Fleetwood then falling away. Then the next 3 seasons in the play offs culminating in one dodgy ref away from promotion.
So how is improving every year not making progress?
I am not somebody who thinks the sun shines out of his arse, but i do think he comes in for a lot of unfair criticism from certain quarters.
I do think that this current team should be capable of winning the league this year, and play offs definately not what we were hoping for this season, but with this team i would fancy us to go one better and win them this year.

He's stabilised us and done the bare minimum with his budget.

The first two play off campaigns were so pathetic it was untrue. The Newport one was simply embarrassing. The last one was better, but you can't just blame the ref for a season riddled with errors. He totally and utterly fucked up the start of that season, we got it back with a good run which he deserves praise for. Yet then that run stopped with perhaps the single most fucking stupid substitution at Chester, costing us a win and so much momentum.

Guiseley was a perfect demonstration as to why Paul Hurst won't win the league. We failed to break them down, failed to change anything about our tactic and allowed ourselves to be bullied at home. How many times has that happened over the past 4 years? So why is he still failing to address it?

We're very rarely exciting, when we are it tends to be phased out by Hurst in favour for a more conservative approach. Numerous seasons we've gone through stages of battering sides over a number of weeks, only for Hurst to rotate the side. It happens every single year.

How many years of play off failure does it need before people accept that small progress isn't really progress at all. How many teams need to rebuild quicker than us before people accept that it's the manager who is holding us back.

 

[pontoonlew]

Problem is if he left -- How many players might he also take ???

I don't know who would realistically go. Mckeown maybe? Previously I'd have said Pearson but he's not even getting in the 11 this year. Bogle would cost and I feel Hurst doesn't really like him. Disley is too old now and I highly doubt Amond would go back to L2 to sit on the bench again.

 

[GTFCfish]

He's stabilised us and done the bare minimum with his budget.

The first two play off campaigns were so pathetic it was untrue. The Newport one was simply embarrassing. The last one was better, but you can't just blame the ref for a season riddled with errors. He totally and utterly fucked up the start of that season, we got it back with a good run which he deserves praise for. Yet then that run stopped with perhaps the single most fucking stupid substitution at Chester, costing us a win and so much momentum.

Guiseley was a perfect demonstration as to why Paul Hurst won't win the league. We failed to break them down, failed to change anything about our tactic and allowed ourselves to be bullied at home. How many times has that happened over the past 4 years? So why is he still failing to address it?

We're very rarely exciting, when we are it tends to be phased out by Hurst in favour for a more conservative approach. Numerous seasons we've gone through stages of battering sides over a number of weeks, only for Hurst to rotate the side. It happens every single year.

How many years of play off failure does it need before people accept that small progress isn't really progress at all. How many teams need to rebuild quicker than us before people accept that it's the manager who is holding us back.

There is a lot of your post that I do agree with, but I feel that you just look for all the negatives ang ignore all the good work that he has done here.
He is a non league manager, so just as with non league players he is not going to be perfect, if he was a perfect manager he would not be in non league.
You mention the Chester substitution and yes that went tits up, but how many tight away wins did we have last season where a similar tactic worked perfectly, you choose to ignore facts like this just to have a dig at him.
Didn't we win 13 away games last season and mainly by the odd goal due to these tactics, what other manager in this league could have picked up that many points on the road, yet you moan about the Chester game!
And the 'positive momentum' that we supposedly lost after that, well we won the next few games after that so balls to that theory eh?

 

[veggieeater]

Im very surprised he hasnt gone yet, thought he was toast when Scott went actually. By far the biggest team support wise, and loads of history yet simply haven't challenged strongly enough for years. Thats underachievement surely. Yeah he has got into the playoffs etc but Towns record in playoffs/ Wembley/ Milennium has been terrible for many many years well before Hurst, theres obviously some psychological issue like the England penalty problem.
Time for a change in outlook I would have though. Fentys patience whilst admirable in some ways is no good, as we found when we persisted with The Hock for several years longer than Leeds or Harriers ....

As for replacements surely there would be plenty keen to try to restore a former great back to where they were, and if they lived in Donny they would be an hour or so away from London ?

 

[pontoonlew]

There is a lot of your post that I do agree with, but I feel that you just look for all the negatives ang ignore all the good work that he has done here.
He is a non league manager, so just as with non league players he is not going to be perfect, if he was a perfect manager he would not be in non league.
You mention the Chester substitution and yes that went tits up, but how many tight away wins did we have last season where a similar tactic worked perfectly, you choose to ignore facts like this just to have a dig at him.
Didn't we win 13 away games last season and mainly by the odd goal due to these tactics, what other manager in this league could have picked up that many points on the road, yet you moan about the Chester game!
And the 'positive momentum' that we supposedly lost after that, well we won the next few games after that so balls to that theory eh?

I hate that 'non league manager so not perfect' line. So because he's a none league manager, it means we accept failure? Absolutely ridiculous. He's s non league manager, in non league with one of the biggest clubs in the league. Mistakes odd times you accept, but being out done by other 'non league managers' year after year is not good enough.

Fair point I.e Chester but that game was the huge turning point. It pretty much ended our involvement in the title race. The whole run was good, I'd said that myself in the post and he got praise during it. But he never saw it through and had he started the season well we'd have won the league. He knew what he'd done wrong at the start of last season, he started this season in the EXACT same manner and we're miles away again, needing a run like last season.

 

[GTFCfish]

Yeah he has got into the playoffs etc but Towns record in playoffs/ Wembley/ Milennium has been terrible for many many years well before Hurst, theres obviously some psychological issue like the England penalty problem.

You are a little off the mark there to be honest.
Before Hurst we had only been in the play offs twice, won them in 98 lost to Cheltenham in the other.
Only played at Millenium stadium once (The Cheltenham defeat).
And Wembley before Hurst we won twice in 98 (old Wembley) and other than that we lost to MK Dons in JPT final in 2008.
Thats it!

 

[Son of Cod]

Wasn't really the point. The point is more than he's been allowed these opportunities and others have surpassed him, meaning managers in lesser situations have surpassed Hurst.

I'm not saying we'd have been able to have those managers ourselves. However what those other managers have shown is that with a different approach, we'd probably be a FL club now.

Managers in lesser situations? The likes of Clarke, Still and Cox had bigger budgets than we've had since we've been down here. Allen and Money have had longer careers to build connections and, Allen in particular last season, were more able to use location to their benefit. The only one I would say was in lesser a situation to Hurst was Edinburgh who beat us soundly in the playoffs. To say that Edinburgh surpassed him is debatable though. Edinburgh had been at Newport for a while already I think. Hurst in contrast, started the season alongside Scott as joint manager.

As has been said, I think some of your criticisms are perfectly valid. However, you can't completely blame Hurst for every single point dropped or every abject attempt at breaking down a parked bus of an opponent. The players need to be held responsible too. For example, in both Newport legs he switched things up before the hour mark. He even brought Andy Cook on for Pearson at half time in the 2nd leg if my memory serves me well?

 

[pontoonlew]

After all that, Hurst will be staying put.