Match Day Sheff Utd Wolves

[Sheffsteel]

Not taking anything away from your victory, but it's stating the obvious a bit saying you're the better team. You have played almost the entirety of the game with an extra man advantage, of course you will look better for it.

Agree mate. Coady was a really important player when he was here, we rated him, so would imagine he was a big loss.

 

[markwwfc1992]

Wasn't really specific that we missed Coady, losing any player that early is game changing.

Still, a deserved win for you. We need a big improvement for Saturday.

 

[blademan89]

Just landed in alicante fucking get in there, and them lot lost again too

 

[Sheffsteel]

Wasn't really specific that we missed Coady, losing any player that early is game changing.

Still, a deserved win for you. We need a big improvement for Saturday.

Think we’d have still won.

Our players looked far higher quality and the midfield were taking the piss at times as your players were chasing shadows. You never threatened at any point apart from the penalty miss of course. Think you had 1 shot on target all match. And that was a speculative 30 yarder that was comfortably tipped over the bar.

Makes no sense to me but how can former league 1 players look a class above Wolves expensive signings? Maybe they weren’t trying?

 

[markwwfc1992]

Think we’d have still won.

Our players looked far higher quality and the midfield were taking the piss at times as your players were chasing shadows. You never threatened at any point apart from the penalty miss of course. Think you had 1 shot on target all match. And that was a speculative 30 yarder that was comfortably tipped over the bar.

Makes no sense to me but how can former league 1 players look a class above Wolves expensive signings? Maybe they weren’t trying?

Again we had 10 men for almost the entire game. Rolls reversed and you get a man sent off in the 15th min and it's a completely different outcome.

You deserved the win, nobody is disputing that, but you cant really make a judgement on a team when you're playing with an extra man all game.

 

[blademan89]

Not seen the match obviously but sounds like a deserved win. 10 men or not you've got to get the job done still and wolves have very good players so could of still been a difficult task.. I won't look into this match too much as mark says it's against 10 men all game so a bit of a mismatch. Onwards and upwards though as the blades go marching on on on.

 

[Sheffsteel]

Again we had 10 men for almost the entire game. Rolls reversed and you get a man sent off in the 15th min and it's a completely different outcome.

You deserved the win, nobody is disputing that, but you cant really make a judgement on a team when you're playing with an extra man all game.

Obviously 10 v 11 will have a fairly major effect.
But sometimes they say playing against 10 men can be difficult.
You’re team never looked like scoring at any stage.

My point was any neutral watching the match could see SU had more quality all over the pitch, especially in midfield and that surprised me. I expected more from Wolves, even with 10 men.

 

[markwwfc1992]

I'm not sure what you expect, did you expect us to start playing like Barca when we went down to 10? If you think it's harder for you to play against 10 men, how on earth do you think it is like for our players to play with a man disadvantage?As soon as we went down to 10 our whole gameplan changed, and with Saiss coming on for Costa it showed we were playing for the draw. We're hardly going to go gung ho at 0-0 with a man disadvantage. If Coady doesn't stupidly get himself sent off then the whole game is different.

Anyway we're going around in circles, we'll move onto the next one.

On a side note I wish Nuno would stop with the zonal marking on set pieces. It's a continental tactic that doesn't work in this division. It is costing us so many goals at the minute.

 

[TomPNE94]

I'm not sure what you expect, did you expect us to start playing like Barca when we went down to 10? If you think it's harder for you to play against 10 men, how on earth do you think it is like for our players to play with a man disadvantage?As soon as we went down to 10 our whole gameplan changed, and with Saiss coming on for Costa it showed we were playing for the draw. We're hardly going to go gung ho at 0-0 with a man disadvantage. If Coady doesn't stupidly get himself sent off then the whole game is different.

Anyway we're going around in circles, we'll move onto the next one.

On a side note I wish Nuno would stop with the zonal marking on set pieces. It's a continental tactic that doesn't work in this division. It is costing us so many goals at the minute.

We do it and have the best defence in the league...

 

[JJH]

We do it and have the best defence in the league...

And conceded a goal from a set-piece against Hull the other day

 

[TomPNE94]

And conceded a goal from a set-piece against Hull the other day

And defended several more with no issues.

 

[markwwfc1992]

Maybe we just have shit defenders

 

[HertsWolf]

Think we’d have still won.

Our players looked far higher quality and the midfield were taking the piss at times as your players were chasing shadows. You never threatened at any point apart from the penalty miss of course. Think you had 1 shot on target all match. And that was a speculative 30 yarder that was comfortably tipped over the bar.

Makes no sense to me but how can former league 1 players look a class above Wolves expensive signings? Maybe they weren’t trying?

That seems arrogant. Until Coady was sent off, we had 85% of the possession: not particularly relevant in the big play of things, but suggests that our players weren't 'chasing shadows' or that yours were 'a class above'. We only had ten men for 75 minutes of the game: at this level it's inevitable that players will be tired and play less well in those circumstances, and that you will have a lot more space in which to play. Even Wilder, with somewhat more respect, said after the match "We knew they would stay in the game..." acknowledging that Wolves did. Your suggesting they weren't trying is fairly crass.
A sending off changes games enormously... Last night's red card was well-deserved, no complaints about that. But making comments about the quality of your players against the quality of ours based on a ten-vs-eleven performance is just fatuous.

Good result for Blades and as I mentioned in an earlier post, Wilder must surely be Manager of the Month, so that's you fucked for October.

fwiw...I predicted in the first post of this thread that you would win this game 2-0.

 

[JJH]

Good result for Blades and as I mentioned in an earlier post, Wilder must surely be Manager of the Month, so that's you fucked for October.

Oi Herts, we haven't even lost a game this month

 

[SF_]

Neither have we.

Wilder will still get it though.

 

[Sheffsteel]

On reflection I think where Wolves went wrong was Nunez positive tactics.
I believe he was a confident and played for a win. Wolves were positive for the first 10 mins.
Once Coady was sent off his tactics and preparation seemed to go out of the window.
Wolves would have been better defending in numbers trying to frustrate us like Norwich did last week (German manager) but credit to Wolves I don’t think being negative/ defensive is in Nunez dna.
The 1st half was a write-off (couldn’t adjust to having 10 men) but 2nd half Wolves did try to make a fight of it but United made the extra man count. Wolves looked tired and couldn’t really get their game together. Agree, if the penalty goes in then could have been different.

Live and learn though, it’s only 1 match and a very long season. Good luck, always like Wolves, remember when we were rivals at the top of division 3 when you had Steve Bull and Andy Mutch. Been to Molineux a few times, 2 side of the ground were closed down, the away end was behind the goal split in half bang next door to the home supporters and that new stand was miles away from the pitch, not been to your ground since it’s been modernised.

JJH,
Wilder never once won the manager of the month award last season, which probably explains his success, he never had to contend with dreaded the curse ha ha. We seemed to be 2nd in the form chart every month. Of course he ultimately won the manager of the year award.

 

[HertsWolf]

Oi Herts, we haven't even lost a game this month

True. But you aren't second, also.

I think one thing's clear this season: there's no stand-out team that's going to run away with the top two spots. I could see any of the current top 13 clubs getting there, and anyone down to 20th getting into the play-offs. We've played a fifth of the games now.
Last season this was the situation at the same stage. The eventual top two then were three and four points behind. Four of the top seven didn't make it to the play-offs and one of them could have been relegated on the last day of the season.
Three of the bottom four at this time last season were relegated, and the other top of the Championship a year later.
The sixth placed team at the end of the season was then 12th placed Fulham with 14 points. This season, Fulham are 11th with 14 points.

What's my point? No fucking clue. Just interesting. And consolation that after losing two games, we are still on more points than last season's top two, albeit with worse goal difference. Last season, you were 6th with 17 points. This season you are 7th with 17 points. But have scored one more goal. Thanks to that fucking ref, apparently.

Positions after ten games, 2016-17
P W D L F A W D L F A GD Pts
1 Huddersfield Town 10 5 0 0 9 4 2 1 2 4 4 5 22
2 Norwich City 10 4 1 0 9 4 2 1 2 10 10 5 20
3 Newcastle United 10 3 0 2 11 8 3 1 1 10 2 11 19
4 Brighton and Hove Albion 10 4 0 1 9 2 1 3 1 3 4 6 18
5 Brentford 10 4 1 0 13 2 1 1 3 5 7 9 17
6 Bristol City 10 3 1 1 7 4 2 1 2 10 7 6 17
7 Birmingham City 10 2 2 1 8 6 2 3 0 5 3 4 17
8 Sheffield Wednesday 10 4 0 1 8 6 1 2 2 4 6 0 17
9 Reading 10 3 2 0 6 3 2 0 3 5 11 -3 17
10 Barnsley 10 3 1 1 11 5 2 0 3 9 9 6 16
11 Wolverhampton Wanderers 10 2 2 1 6 6 2 1 2 8 6 2 15
12 Fulham 10 1 2 2 4 8 2 3 0 5 3 -2 14
13 Ipswich Town 10 2 3 0 6 3 1 1 3 2 5 0 13
14 Leeds United 10 2 1 2 5 5 2 0 3 5 7 -2 13
15 Nottingham Forest 10 3 1 1 13 10 0 2 3 5 10 -2 12
16 Queens Park Rangers 10 1 2 2 5 10 2 1 2 7 6 -4 12
17 Aston Villa 10 1 4 0 8 5 0 3 2 2 5 0 10
18 Burton Albion 10 2 1 2 6 5 0 3 2 8 11 -2 10
19 Preston North End 10 2 0 3 6 5 1 1 3 4 9 -4 10
20 Derby County 10 0 2 3 1 5 2 1 2 4 4 -4 9
21 Wigan Athletic 10 2 2 1 6 3 0 0 5 6 11 -2 8
22 Blackburn Rovers 10 1 1 3 7 10 1 1 3 5 9 -7 8
23 Cardiff City 10 1 0 4 2 8 1 2 2 6 9 -9 8
24 Rotherham United 10 1 3 1 8 8 0 0 5 3 16 -13 6

Edit: Hmmm. Spent ages getting table right, using Courier New font.....

 

[blademan89]

On reflection I think where Wolves went wrong was Nunez positive tactics.
I believe he was a confident and played for a win. Wolves were positive for the first 10 mins.
Once Coady was sent off his tactics and preparation seemed to go out of the window.
Wolves would have been better defending in numbers trying to frustrate us like Norwich did last week (German manager) but credit to Wolves I don’t think being negative/ defensive is in Nunez dna.
The 1st half was a write-off (couldn’t adjust to having 10 men) but 2nd half Wolves did try to make a fight of it but United made the extra man count and Wolves looked tired and couldn’t really get their game together.
Live and learn though, it’s only 1 match and a very long season. Good luck, always like Wolves, remember when we were rivals at the top of division 3 when you had Steve Bull and Andy Mutch. Been to Molineux a few times, 2 side of the ground were closed down, the away end was behind the goal split in half bang next door to the home supporters and that new stand was miles away from the pitch, not been to your ground since it’s been modernised.

JJH,
Wilder never once won the manager of the month award last season, which probably explains his success, he never had to contend with dreaded the curse ha ha. We seemed to be 2nd in the form chart every month. Of course he ultimately won the manager of the year award.

He must of won the last one we won our last 7 games. Think you need to calm down a bit mate on about us outclassing them, they had 10 men so other than the fact we've done the job with ease don't look too much into it. Anyway the champions league oh sorry the championship doesn't seem too bad at the minute.

 

[Sheffsteel]

He must of won the last one we won our last 7 games. Think you need to calm down a bit mate on about us outclassing them, they had 10 men so other than the fact we've done the job with ease don't look too much into it. Anyway the champions league oh sorry the championship doesn't seem too bad at the minute.

I believe he did win the final month but the season was over by then.

Just reporting what I see regards the match on a match thread.
And I always respect and give credit to the opposition, when deserved.
I’ve said many times Brentfords overall play were really impressive but lacking up front
Even though we lost to a very negative Norwich unlike many others I gave them credit for doing a tactical job on us and defending really well.
Even though we had a last minute goal chalked off, no complaints from me against Boro who were the better side on the day, physically stronger and quicker. Also we were well beaten by a good Cardiff side, who played like a team, typical Warnock.

 

[JJH]

True. But you aren't second, also.

I think one thing's clear this season: there's no stand-out team that's going to run away with the top two spots. I could see any of the current top 13 clubs getting there, and anyone down to 20th getting into the play-offs. We've played a fifth of the games now.
Last season this was the situation at the same stage. The eventual top two then were three and four points behind. Four of the top seven didn't make it to the play-offs and one of them could have been relegated on the last day of the season.
Three of the bottom four at this time last season were relegated, and the other top of the Championship a year later.
The sixth placed team at the end of the season was then 12th placed Fulham with 14 points. This season, Fulham are 11th with 14 points.

What's my point? No fucking clue. Just interesting. And consolation that after losing two games, we are still on more points than last season's top two, albeit with worse goal difference. Last season, you were 6th with 17 points. This season you are 7th with 17 points. But have scored one more goal. Thanks to that fucking ref, apparently.

Positions after ten games, 2016-17
P W D L F A W D L F A GD Pts
1 Huddersfield Town 10 5 0 0 9 4 2 1 2 4 4 5 22
2 Norwich City 10 4 1 0 9 4 2 1 2 10 10 5 20
3 Newcastle United 10 3 0 2 11 8 3 1 1 10 2 11 19
4 Brighton and Hove Albion 10 4 0 1 9 2 1 3 1 3 4 6 18
5 Brentford 10 4 1 0 13 2 1 1 3 5 7 9 17
6 Bristol City 10 3 1 1 7 4 2 1 2 10 7 6 17
7 Birmingham City 10 2 2 1 8 6 2 3 0 5 3 4 17
8 Sheffield Wednesday 10 4 0 1 8 6 1 2 2 4 6 0 17
9 Reading 10 3 2 0 6 3 2 0 3 5 11 -3 17
10 Barnsley 10 3 1 1 11 5 2 0 3 9 9 6 16
11 Wolverhampton Wanderers 10 2 2 1 6 6 2 1 2 8 6 2 15
12 Fulham 10 1 2 2 4 8 2 3 0 5 3 -2 14
13 Ipswich Town 10 2 3 0 6 3 1 1 3 2 5 0 13
14 Leeds United 10 2 1 2 5 5 2 0 3 5 7 -2 13
15 Nottingham Forest 10 3 1 1 13 10 0 2 3 5 10 -2 12
16 Queens Park Rangers 10 1 2 2 5 10 2 1 2 7 6 -4 12
17 Aston Villa 10 1 4 0 8 5 0 3 2 2 5 0 10
18 Burton Albion 10 2 1 2 6 5 0 3 2 8 11 -2 10
19 Preston North End 10 2 0 3 6 5 1 1 3 4 9 -4 10
20 Derby County 10 0 2 3 1 5 2 1 2 4 4 -4 9
21 Wigan Athletic 10 2 2 1 6 3 0 0 5 6 11 -2 8
22 Blackburn Rovers 10 1 1 3 7 10 1 1 3 5 9 -7 8
23 Cardiff City 10 1 0 4 2 8 1 2 2 6 9 -9 8
24 Rotherham United 10 1 3 1 8 8 0 0 5 3 16 -13 6

Edit: Hmmm. Spent ages getting table right, using Courier New font.....

That table doesn't read well for us, same amount of points and same goals scored at this stage this season....

 

[HertsWolf]

That table doesn't read well for us, same amount of points and same goals scored at this stage this season....

Yeh but look at the difference a season makes. Last season, Cardiff were second-bottom. Last season, Brentford were 5th and the Brummies were in 7th.
What I think has been unexpected this season is that you, Sheffield United, Millwall and Preston have been playing exciting football, scoring goals for fun and without spending tens of millions. The division is better for it and I am certain that one of those cubs will be in the PL next season. Hopefully at the expense of Cardiff though.

 

[blademan89]

Yeh but look at the difference a season makes. Last season, Cardiff were second-bottom. Last season, Brentford were 5th and the Brummies were in 7th.
What I think has been unexpected this season is that you, Sheffield United, Millwall and Preston have been playing exciting football, scoring goals for fun and without spending tens of millions. The division is better for it and I am certain that one of those cubs will be in the PL next season. Hopefully at the expense of Cardiff though.

Bristol city have probably spent more than us 3 put together in the last 2 seasons.

 

[markwwfc1992]

Nothing against Cardiff but the last thing I want to see is Colin getting another promotion.

 

[JJH]

Yeh but look at the difference a season makes. Last season, Cardiff were second-bottom. Last season, Brentford were 5th and the Brummies were in 7th.
What I think has been unexpected this season is that you, Sheffield United, Millwall and Preston have been playing exciting football, scoring goals for fun and without spending tens of millions. The division is better for it and I am certain that one of those cubs will be in the PL next season. Hopefully at the expense of Cardiff though.

In fairness we have spent about £30m since Johnson's come in to get into the position we're in at the moment.

I agree with you though, I thought we'd really struggle under Johnson and it's likely may well still do, but we're so good defensively this year compared to this time last year which massively helps particularly away from home.

 

[HertsWolf]

In fairness we have spent about £30m since Johnson's come in to get into the position we're in at the moment.

I agree with you though, I thought we'd really struggle under Johnson and it's likely may well still do, but we're so good defensively this year compared to this time last year which massively helps particularly away from home.

Agreed. To be honest, I don't think this will be your season...just a feeling that you won't last the pace. (If it's any consolation, I think we won't be in the top two either). People have been very complimentary about our style of play and we are loving it - when we keep ten men on the pitch, but.......

....but

Nuno is naive, the way Solbakken was naive and the way many furn managers are naive at first.

• one style doesn't fit all opponents. We got found out vs Cardiff, almost vs Hull and Millwall
• one style doesn't necessarily fit the entire 90 mins.
• you need a game plan for 10 men situations. Last night was an example of why. Costa came off too soon. It was clear that our squad now has no idea how to play 4 - 4 - 1 (or 2). It was noted by a number of people that we had no established centre halves or full backs on the bench...just 4 midfielders and one striker. That's silly IMHO (because Batth, Doherty and Miranda will now be exhausted on Saturday)
• stop attacking the fourth official. Refs make mistakes: sometimes we benefit, sometimes they do. Live with it.
• stop blaming the ref for not winning games and not giving penalties. 9 times out of 10, their decisions are seen to be correct. Live with the 1 out of 10, because often that's the one we get in our favour.
• rotate a bit more. This is a marathon division, not a sprint. Neves and Coady already look tired. We have oodles of quality in the Under 23s and we saw that at St Marys in the first round of the Caravan Cup. Whatever tf it's called now. So play some of them: Deslandes and Hause both deserve playing time. As do Price, Ronan, Wilson and Norris.
• we are light on the more aggressive players. Wish we still had Stearman and Iorfa, for example.
• zonal marking is clearly an area we are struggling to manage, and (as Mark said) when you are down to ten tired men it's verging on madness. I think it's a miracle we didn't lose 6-0 last night simply by virtue of that alone. I don't believe tired players can mark zones simply because they are tired; zonal marking requires thinking and discipline and it's something defenders will be endlessly drilled in, but when you have strikers and attacking players drawn back to defend set-pieces, they are just hopeless at it. (Personally I think it was our downfall against Cardiff too)

Nuno is learning, but in the meantime we will lose a fair number of games this season simply because we will have been strategically out-smarted.

 

[markwwfc1992]

Agreed. To be honest, I don't think this will be your season...just a feeling that you won't last the pace. (If it's any consolation, I think we won't be in the top two either). People have been very complimentary about our style of play and we are loving it - when we keep ten men on the pitch, but.......

....but

Nuno is naive, the way Solbakken was naive and the way many furn managers are naive at first.

• one style doesn't fit all opponents. We got found out vs Cardiff, almost vs Hull and Millwall
• one style doesn't necessarily fit the entire 90 mins.
• you need a game plan for 10 men situations. Last night was an example of why. Costa came off too soon. It was clear that our squad now has no idea how to play 4 - 4 - 1 (or 2). It was noted by a number of people that we had no established centre halves or full backs on the bench...just 4 midfielders and one striker. That's silly IMHO (because Batth, Doherty and Miranda will now be exhausted on Saturday)
• stop attacking the fourth official. Refs make mistakes: sometimes we benefit, sometimes they do. Live with it.
• stop blaming the ref for not winning games and not giving penalties. 9 times out of 10, their decisions are seen to be correct. Live with the 1 out of 10, because often that's the one we get in our favour.
• rotate a bit more. This is a marathon division, not a sprint. Neves and Coady already look tired. We have oodles of quality in the Under 23s and we saw that at St Marys in the first round of the Caravan Cup. Whatever tf it's called now. So play some of them: Deslandes and Hause both deserve playing time. As do Price, Ronan, Wilson and Norris.
• we are light on the more aggressive players. Wish we still had Stearman and Iorfa, for example.
• zonal marking is clearly an area we are struggling to manage, and (as Mark said) when you are down to ten tired men it's verging on madness. I think it's a miracle we didn't lose 6-0 last night simply by virtue of that alone. I don't believe tired players can mark zones simply because they are tired; zonal marking requires thinking and discipline and it's something defenders will be endlessly drilled in, but when you have strikers and attacking players drawn back to defend set-pieces, they are just hopeless at it. (Personally I think it was our downfall against Cardiff too)

Nuno is learning, but in the meantime we will lose a fair number of games this season simply because we will have been strategically out-smarted.

A conspiracy theory but regarding the team sheet, I wonder if Fosun have more of an influence than we think.

For example Neves cost us 15m, but has been in all honesty quite shit for the last 3 games. I wonder if because we have paid 15 odd million for him, that our owners are insisting that he plays every game. Jack Price has been excellent in the cup games so far but can't get a look in.