Stickied Spanish Football

[mistermagic]

I'm surprised Real haven't bought anyone yet. Very much unlike them. Maybe they're waiting CL exit in order to make Zidane's sacking less harsh.

 

[Super_horns]

Real out of the Spanish Cup (along with Valencia and A.Madrid)

Barca must be enjoying life so far !

 

[Lionel Messi]

What a time to be alive!

We must play a full strength XI tomorrow versus Espanyol! We trail 1-0 and it’s half time. No complacency or disrespect to our opponents I want to see Messi and Suarez from the start. Maybe even Coutinho will get some minutes

 

[Gaz12321]

Losing at home to Leganes last night and exiting the Copa Del Rey isn't exactly going to help Zidane's cause haha

What a week for Barca on that front, 3 of the most serious contenders for the cup crashing out. Can't see Valverde taking many risks tonight.

 

[Lionel Messi]

Coutinho described his debut as a “very special night” and the playmaking genius didn’t disappoint in our 2-0 victory

It was a very poignant moment Coutinho coming on for Iniesta. A passing of the torch as it were

Coutinho will play that inside left creative role, and already we saw glimpses of his amazing touch, dribbling and delivery.

This is the beginning of something special

 

[SALTIRE]

He didn't much, a couple of nice touches but nothing more, though could've had an assist for Suarez.

 

[mistermagic]

This tidbit of RM debate has made me look forward to their game at Valencia this afternoon. Hopefully it's a decent enough game.

 

[mistermagic]

Well Real won 4-1 yesterday but still not convinced by their midfield. This game was as bad as the Classico. The game starts with both sides looking at each other with absolutely nothing happening and then suddenly a team scores and it's game over. I thought Valencia would be better. Much better. This game was a routine win for Real whereas I was expected a balanced encounter between two good sides. La Liga really is absolutely fucking bollocks.

 

[Lance Stoe]

It’s better than the French League

 

[mistermagic]

It’s better than the French League

We've got a lot of quality in our league. We just bottle it in the CL/EL.

 

[Lance Stoe]

Apart from Lyon, PSG and Monaco the French league is terrible

 

[Super_horns]

Will Barca make a late come back against Alaves?

 

[SALTIRE]

Will Barca make a late come back against Alaves?

Yes.

 

[Lionel Messi]

Will Barca make a late come back against Alaves?

When one team has Messi, anything is possible.

 

[Gaz12321]

Well Real won 4-1 yesterday but still not convinced by their midfield. This game was as bad as the Classico. The game starts with both sides looking at each other with absolutely nothing happening and then suddenly a team scores and it's game over. I thought Valencia would be better. Much better. This game was a routine win for Real whereas I was expected a balanced encounter between two good sides. La Liga really is absolutely fucking bollocks.

La Liga certainly isn't 'bollocks' it has been the superior league in the world for many years! One thing you rarely see in La Liga is sides that look to shut up shop even against the big guns which is why you see 5-0 wins and the like, teams in Spain attack which generally makes games exciting. I didn't see the RM game but I am surprised at the scoreline, i'd also have expected a bigger fight from Valencia, but this one result doesn't make a whole league bollocks!

30 goals in the 9 games this weekend, only one 0-0 draw, not bad going really in terms of entertainment value. Try watching Celta v Betis if you get chance tonight, should be an open and exciting game, Betis are usually great to watch.

 

[mistermagic]

Apart from Lyon, PSG and Monaco the French league is terrible

Marseille have been more good than bad this season but overall I think most midtable sides have some decent players in there.

And Gaz, I know I'm making that assumption after watching a few games which were big games (namely Valencia/Barca (actually that was pretty good), the Classico and Valencia/Real on Saturday) but those games just fail to live up to the expectation. I know it doesn't make a whole league bad but if all Barca and Real have to do is turn up then what's the point? I'm convinced there is quality in those La Liga teams but they don't seem interested in upping their level whenever they play one of the big two. A few years back, Valencia would have given a real game to Real. Saturday was just a routine win. So underwhelming.

 

[Lance Stoe]

Valencia nearly got relegated two years ago. They have been above Real for the majority of the season

 

[Gaz12321]

I'm convinced there is quality in those La Liga teams but they don't seem interested in upping their level whenever they play one of the big two.

Alaves were ahead at Camp Nou on Sunday until the 72nd minute, they may have ultimately lost the game but i'd say that's a decent effort. Barca (and Real on their day) can beat Europe's elite by 4 or 5 goals comfortably so of course they can beat La Liga sides by these scorelines, it doesn't mean anybody is showing a lack of interest or effort, just can't cope with the quality. How is it any different to Man City, PSG, Bayern, Juventus or many others in their domestic leagues?

I'm not trying to be funny or anything it's just your making a lot of points that make no sense at all, there's no substance behind them.

 

[Lance Stoe]

Since 95 96 season there have been five English Champions and five winners of La Liga

Barca
Real
Valencia
Deportivo
Atletico

Sevilla won the Europa League three years in a row. La Liga remains the best league in the world

 

[JimJams]

But you're just cherry picking your preferred time frames. Why pick 22 years ago?
If we go for the last 15 years there's been 4 different la liga winners and 5 different prem winners, theres also been 2 different Spanish CL winners to 3 different English CL winners.
Make it 5 years and the picture is 2 different Spanish champions, 4 different prem champions and those 2 spanish sides dominating the CL. But what does that indicate about the quality of the respective leagues? You can argue a case to suit either agenda here. More different champions means a more competitive league, but CL dominance indicates a higher quality of the Spanish sides but doesnt reflect if thats the leagues strength or the specific 2 sides.

 

[Lance Stoe]

Yet you preclude Sevilla from your argument and the fact Atletico Madrid have reached the final on two occasions in four years, whereas no clubs from England have

 

[JimJams]

I wasn't presenting one as better than the other. So leaving something out doesn't really matter. I'm not bending things to suit a pov. I haven't made a conclusion as to which is better.

 

[Lionel Messi]

I wasn't presenting one as better than the other. So leaving something out doesn't really matter. I'm not bending things to suit a pov. I haven't made a conclusion as to which is better.

What is your actual conclusion then?

 

[JimJams]

That 'best' is a subjective term and so determining what you mean by that is the first step to drawing a conclusion.
Some people determine the best by the league that has the best teams in it, which makes CL results important to factor in.
Others, strength in depth, which is harder to determine.
Some people judge the best league by excitement and/or entertainment, a subjective thing. Italians long admired string defences and took pride in 1-0 tactical wins whereas English football would see a 4-3 as preferable for entertainment. Those views have changed somewhat but still it shows that what the audience values plays a part in it.
You see when people create these arguments, they generally load up the 'debate' to reflect their own bias. But some of the arguments used can be contradictory.
The CL used as a barometer citing the lack of English progress vs the Spanish seemingly indicates that the Spanish league is stronger, and it probably is, but Juventus have gone to 2 finals in the last 3 seasons, does that make Serie A stronger than the Prem? It undoubtedly isn't yet that's the measurement used in the Spanish/English argument.

 

[Gaz12321]

Make it 5 years and the picture is 2 different Spanish champions, 4 different prem champions and those 2 spanish sides dominating the CL. But what does that indicate about the quality of the respective leagues? You can argue a case to suit either agenda here. More different champions means a more competitive league, but CL dominance indicates a higher quality of the Spanish sides but doesnt reflect if thats the leagues strength or the specific 2 sides.

Well that's a poorly researched post!! Please see the past 5 winners of La Liga listed below and keep in mind that Atletico Madrid have been in 2 CL Finals in the last 5 years, Barca have been in 1 and Real Madrid have been in 3. So, which TWO sides are you referring to as being particularly strong and dominating the CL?

La Liga Winners
2016-17 Real Madrid
2015-16 Barcelona
2014-15 Barcelona
2013-14 Atletico Madrid
2012-13 Barcelona

In terms of any league being better than the other, there cannot be a definitive, as mentioned before different people will have different opinions based upon different factors, so for anyone to try and claim a league is the best in the world is as effective as pissing in the wind. Maybe the focus of discussion here should return to the leagues competitive nature?

 

[JimJams]

Well that's a poorly researched post!! Please see the past 5 winners of La Liga listed below and keep in mind that Atletico Madrid have been in 2 CL Finals in the last 5 years, Barca have been in 1 and Real Madrid have been in 3. So, which TWO sides are you referring to as being particularly strong and dominating the CL?

La Liga Winners
2016-17 Real Madrid
2015-16 Barcelona
2014-15 Barcelona
2013-14 Atletico Madrid
2012-13 Barcelona

In terms of any league being better than the other, there cannot be a definitive, as mentioned before different people will have different opinions based upon different factors, so for anyone to try and claim a league is the best in the world is as effective as pissing in the wind. Maybe the focus of discussion here should return to the leagues competitive nature?

Obviously the only TWO sides that have won it. Nobody thinks Juve are dominating the CL because they reached 2 of the last 3 finals. It's not a poorly researched post, it's a bloody typo, 2 is next to 3 and this is a touchscreen keyboard. The point was in that timeframe the higher figure is on the Prems side, with or without a typo. And its still just as irrelevant in terms of the argument.

 

[Gaz12321]

Obviously the only TWO sides that have won it. Nobody thinks Juve are dominating the CL because they reached 2 of the last 3 finals. It's not a poorly researched post, it's a bloody typo, 2 is next to 3 and this is a touchscreen keyboard. The point was in that timeframe the higher figure is on the Prems side, with or without a typo. And its still just as irrelevant in terms of the argument.

One side dominating then, as Barca have only won it once in 5 years so clearly they aren't dominating?

Make it 5 years and the picture is 2 different Spanish champions, 4 different prem champions and those 2 spanish sides dominating the CL. But what does that indicate about the quality of the respective leagues? You can argue a case to suit either agenda here. More different champions means a more competitive league, but CL dominance indicates a higher quality of the Spanish sides but doesnt reflect if thats the leagues strength or the specific 2 sides.

Re-read what you have written, that isn't a bloody typo. You've written 2 and then further referenced the 2 sides on a further 2 occasions!

 

[JimJams]

Re-read what you have written, that isn't a bloody typo. You've written 2 and then further referenced the 2 sides on a further 2 occasions!

You're right. I have ballsed that up. Didn't read it back. But still, like I said you can pick particular time frames to suit your argument. In a debate on which is stronger you've gone back 22 years. Why? If you'd gone one further there'd have been another English team for th Prem list. Equally you could have just gone back to 03/04 to still get 5 English sides, and 1 less Spanish. You seem to have deliberately chosen a stretch of time that allows for the longest spell of 5 prem winners before hitting number 6. Why bother? Or is that mere coincidence?

 

[Lionel Messi]

JimJams - why didn't you go back 50 to 60 years? A Spanish club featured in 9 of the 11 finals Why bother? Or is that mere coincidence?

But I want to talk about facts.

The facts are La Liga has been one of the strongest domestic leagues since the late 90's. In recent history, Spanish clubs have featured in many of the very best European competitions and WON.
Sky Sports have been brainwashing it's customers with propaganda for too long now!


https://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/ccoef2017.html
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anexo:Clasificación_mundial_de_ligas_nacionales_de_la_IFFHS#2017

 

[JimJams]

I didn't select any timeframe because I'm not presenting an argument for or against any league.
Surely you got that from what was said.