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The 4-2-3-1 is killing football

elnino65

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I've never seen a formation so overkilled by teams and dependable to produce narrow score-lines, and evenly contested matches by an large, with such consistency. Even the latest football manager game is in favour of sides using the 4-2-3-1, one of the most disappointing things about it. I am a purist I like to see a top four almost dominating, partly because it bodes well for English teams in the champions league. I also like open matches, with quality players having space.

The premier league can still be competitive even if there is a more established big 4, like it was pre 2010, the problem is now, that the BPL is annoyingly more competitive than quality, was last season too. Any form of consistently is getting rewarded, but because the 4-2-3-1, produces narrow results as I've been banging on about, teams who use it (8 of the current top 10 in the table) therefore are likely to pick up at lot of draws, as have Spurs today, against a side you'd expect them to beat, even if West Brom are proving a tough team to visit at the Hawthorns. City losing, Chelsea losing, two top quality squads, it's not the sheer brilliance of bournemouth's players, it's not bad luck, it's down to the tactical resilience of this shape, defending as a unit, attacking as a unit. Wenger has just come out with the comment that the premier league is a "battle". If we want all of the league to continue being a battle, and for hard workers like vardy to top the goalscoring charts, and be unchallenged we're going the right way about it. I only hope that, as a Liverpool fan, Klopp stops using the 4-2-3-1 at home, and shows the premier league another way, that 2 strikers is still the way to go, as leicester have been one of the only or few teams set up with, because clear cut chances are at a premium in the premier leagues most popular boring, result orientated formation.

Credit to Leicester and Man Utd for showing originality in their formation choice. Rant over
 
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Stevencc

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It is a little boring to see so many teams using the 4231 but United do happen to use it 99% of the time. We deviate to the 3412 when Van Gaal deems it necessary (it's never necessary).
 

JimJams

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So Vardy broke RvN's record because he's just a hard worker?
 

elnino65

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So Vardy broke RvN's record because he's just a hard worker?
I predict that Vardy won't score a single goal for England in the Euros, England don't even know who their DM is yet, so how can they play counter attacking football and get in behind. I think England will do well, but Vardy won't be as big as people think. Will that prove to you he doesn't have that much quality? he's just a hound. plus all his goals have been inside the area, tell me one striker who has topped the goalscoring charts and won the golden boot, who hasn't scored from outside the area in a premier league season?

also leicester had some fortune in their run of fixtures
 

Art Morte

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I kinda get the popularity of the 4-2-3-1, it's versatile, like players are supposed to be "versatile" nowadays. The 4-2-3-1 can easily become a defensive or an attacking formation.

Also, traditional hug-the-sideline wingers have become somewhat extinct, at least at the very top. Jesus Navas is the perfect example of that - because he's frigging awful. Guys like Hazard, Sanchez, Mahrez, Willian, they're basically wingers except they're not. When you look at the areas where they really make things happen, it's much more than just being out wide and doing your thing over there. It's all about cutting in, making runs, drifting inside, playing passes... Out-and-out wingers are a rare breed nowadays at the top level. That also in its own way explains the 4-2-3-1 or any other formation that seems "flexible", because that's what is asked from most of the attacking players nowadays.

Shaqiri and Arnautovic combined for two great goals today while basically playing the "outside AMs" in a 4-2-3-1 and they had their defensive duties, too, while looked great in attack.
 

elnino65

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"the pl can still be competetive, even if 16 out of 20 teams can't compete"

u wot m8
that's how it was 6 years ago? so it wasn't that competitive then? I'm just saying it's too competitve now, too open. lacks quality
 

G.B

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it was the opposite of competitive. sorry bud, but your post reads like one big whinge about it not being easy to win all the time and a longing for a closed shop again. your views on vardy are a load of shit as well.

welcome to the forum btw
 

elnino65

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it was the opposite of competetive. sorry bud, but your post reads like one big whinge about it not being easy to win all the time and a longing for a closed shop again. your views on vardy are a load of shit as well.

welcome to the forum btw
no need to insult my english skills, if you don't agree I couldn't of tried to persuade you any better. Haha, no, my views on vardy are spot on. I know talent when I see it. Lol I actually want you to be in charge of a big club and sign vardy now, see how he gets on
 

JimJams

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If Vardy doesn't score in the Euros he'll have done about as well as Rooney then, and if the England system doesn't suit his style of play then it's hardly his fault or a reflection of his quality/ability is it? If you ask Daniel Sturridge to play up front for WBA the way Pulis has them playing then he isn't going to do an awful lot, that doesn't then make him a poor player. Also scoring outside the area isn't and never has been a prerequisite for being a good striker. How many did RvN score from outside the box when he was at Man Utd?
As for Leicester having had fortune in the run of fixtures we've lost 2 games in the last 24 premier league fixtures. And this season Vardy scored against Utd - the best defence and in our only loss of the season, to Arsenal, he scored 2. It's not like he only scored against Villa 11 games in a row.
 

G.B

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no need to insult my english skills, if you don't agree I couldn't of tried to persuade you any better. Haha, no, my views on vardy are spot on. I know talent when I see it. Lol I actually want you to be in charge of a big club and sign vardy now, see how he gets on

i didn't insult your english skills.

sign me up, i could do with the money
 

elnino65

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If Vardy doesn't score in the Euros he'll have done about as well as Rooney then, and if the England system doesn't suit his style of play then it's hardly his fault or a reflection of his quality/ability is it? If you ask Daniel Sturridge to play up front for WBA the way Pulis has them playing then he isn't going to do an awful lot, that doesn't then make him a poor player. Also scoring outside the area isn't and never has been a prerequisite for being a good striker. How many did RvN score from outside the box when he was at Man Utd?
As for Leicester having had fortune in the run of fixtures we've lost 2 games in the last 24 premier league fixtures. And this season Vardy scored against Utd - the best defence and in our only loss of the season, to Arsenal, he scored 2. It's not like he only scored against Villa 11 games in a row.
so the short answer is. no, it wouldn't prove to you that vardy is just a hound. Come on man, anyone with quality, like Alan Shearer can strike a ball from any sort of range, that's just such a low expectation bro, just to think a poacher is worth of winning such a prestigious award. Sturridge doesn't do well as a lone striker in any team your right. Great, worldclass lonestrikers like Lewan are hard to find, why even Costa, who scored 20 last season, has only 3 or 4 and we're almost at christmas. scoring against man utd or arsenal doesn't really impress me, even sunderland scored against arsenal today. man utd's defence is poor, no matter what their record suggests, smalling and blind, de gea are good, but it's man utd's quality midfield that protects and masks their just above average defence. Did RvP get the golden boot? can't of scored many then can he? ah well least he's much more capable of scoring from outside the area
 
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JimJams

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So hang on you're saying that Vardy is a poacher? Seriously? That's how you'd describe him?
And what has RvP got to do with things?
 

elnino65

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So hang on you're saying that Vardy is a poacher? Seriously? That's how you'd describe him?
And what has RvP got to do with things?
well you are comparing RvP ability to score outside the box to not diminish vardy's scoring ability in any way. Well Costa was a poacher last season, so I guess I do flit around with my thoughts of what types of strikers they are for their teams.
 

elnino65

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I'm going out on a limb here and saying you haven't really seen Vardy play and have no fucking clue what you're talking about.
I saw Vardy play against Lithuania, I could score against Lithuania, he's good but he's not top pl quality
 

G.B

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poachers are notorious for their hard working attitudes on the pitch
 

JimJams

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elnino65

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it was the opposite of competitive. sorry bud, but your post reads like one big whinge about it not being easy to win all the time and a longing for a closed shop again. your views on vardy are a load of shit as well.

welcome to the forum btw
ty for welcoming me :)
 
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JimJams

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You're not doing the Liverpool supporting contingent any favours y'know.
 

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If you're a football purist and like exciting football may I suggest watching Leicester city.
 

JimJams

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why not? because I'm pointing out I like exciting football, not boring football?
You want excitement yet you want top 4 dominance. You write a players ability off despite clearly not watching him play. Granted you've credited Leicester for playing a different formation, but no doubt also see Leicester as a bunch of workmanlike players who are at the top thanks to a 'great team spirit' and a string of easy fixtures and luck. You don't want Klopp to use the tactics that he's used before which made Dortmund champions and got them to a CL final because the formation is results oriented? You want results and you want exciting football, but maybe Klopp doesn't have the players to do both. Maybe he does, and maybe he does in a 4-2-3-1.
 

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I actually kinda agree with this, only because basically every team is playing the same way these days, im sure its a big cyclic, but we used to see big variation in international tournaments, each nation with a distinct style. Now everyone wants to play boring football and it kind of sucks.
 

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