The A6 Derby (Luton v Carlisle)

[djs]

It's a funny thing time wasting isn't it? Because seeing as the apparent time wasting occurs when the ball is not in play, the referee should be adding the time on at the end of the half, so really no time is wasted of the actual game.

The only real time wasting you get in football is when a player takes the ball into the corner to waste valuable seconds to see a game out. But that's perfectly legal unless you obstruct.

You really don't seem to grasp the idea of slowing the game down, breaking up play, stopping the opposition from getting up a head of steam, do you? You might argue that the phrase ' time wasting' isn't perhaps the right way to describe it, but there is NO doubt that this is exactly what your keeper was doing as early as the first few minutes.
I stand by my comment that for a referee who really wants to cut this type of negativity out, that would have been an EASY yellow to give to send out the message. The fact that he didn't even try to stamp it out all game says a lot about him.
I agree with several of the above comments - Carlisle can and did play enough decent football, and have too many decent players, to allow themselves to get more concerned with 'time wasting', pretend injuries, and the like. I know that this was the first time that I have seen Carlisle this season, but perhaps that is why they have drawn so many. They have the quality to concentrate on winning games.

 

[hellogregory]

You really don't seem to grasp the idea of slowing the game down, breaking up play, stopping the opposition from getting up a head of steam, do you? You might argue that the phrase ' time wasting' isn't perhaps the right way to describe it, but there is NO doubt that this is exactly what your keeper was doing as early as the first few minutes.
I stand by my comment that for a referee who really wants to cut this type of negativity out, that would have been an EASY yellow to give to send out the message. The fact that he didn't even try to stamp it out all game says a lot about him.
I agree with several of the above comments - Carlisle can and did play enough decent football, and have too many decent players, to allow themselves to get more concerned with 'time wasting', pretend injuries, and the like. I know that this was the first time that I have seen Carlisle this season, but perhaps that is why they have drawn so many. They have the quality to concentrate on winning games.

I admit we didn't seem to go for it today which I've already mentioned further up. it frustrated me because I think the game was there to be won as I don't think Luton were at their best today. I don't think we intentionally rocked up wanting only a point because we started the game well, were on the front foot and went ahead, but as the game went on it was clear we weren't going for it as much as we could have.

I can't really recall the goalkeeper situation, maybe I was at the pisser or typing something on this forum while the ball was out of play. I do believe you though, I just dispute some of the other comments that we spent the whole game from minute 7 onward wasting time etc and don't agree that our players were faking injuries to waste time (or whatever you want to call it):

That's not why we've drawn so many this season by the way. We were drawing loads at the start of the season because we were wasting too many easy chances, then more recently it's been because we've lost all ability to keep clean sheets and have been needing 2 goals just to get a point.

 

[That Fat Centre Half]

Think my comment about "nigglinness" (is that a word? If guess not!) has been misconstrued a little or I didn't make it clear. I did think Carlisle played some good stuff and were a decent football unit, just that they did the ugly stuff, like being physical, timewasting and slowing things down when warranted. To me that's part of being a good side at this level, being canny and clever with game situations.

To me being niggly and horrible to play against side and being a decent football team aren't necessarily mutually exclusive, especially at this level. If we had the element of nastiness about us (like Hylton does) throughout the side we'd be a better team, you just might not get plaudits for that style because the "nasty" stuff can over ride some of the good you did.

Basically I was trying to compliment not being a word smith it didn't come out as intended there.

As for coin throwing, thought I saw some stuff being thrown. I despair of our fans at times, morons.

 

[shoddycollins]

Your keeper was clearly given a final warning by the ref for time wasting early in the first half so it's not just something Luton fans have imagined.

He wasn't holding on to it for longer than six seconds was he? Because if that's all it is then almost every keeper in football does that several times per game, they like to have a little breather before releasing it again, I don't think they're trying to run down the clock I think it's just a goalie thing, they're never happier than when they have the ball in their hands. It's against the rules and most of the time they get away with it, I guess this referee just didn't like it.

 

[Kenneth E End]

Admittedly I was probably up the other end of the ground, but i didn't see any coin throwing at all?

 

[hellogregory]

Admittedly I was probably up the other end of the ground, but i didn't see any coin throwing at all?

What about lollipop throwing?

 

[That Fat Centre Half]

I saw the lollipop being thrown, as Adams put it in his mouth (not a particularly wise thing to do I'd have thought!). Didn't see coins but I wouldn't doubt it If that's the allegation.

As for us and the game, the new shape worked reasonably well I thought. I don't think it particularly suited McGeehan however who was called upon to be a bit more disciplined and to make the play a bit more, his passing, both the range of passes he can make and their accuracy, needs a lot of work before he progresses higher for me. His goals are vital so you can't be too hard on him though.

The main thing for me though was we really wasted a number of promising attacks, especially first half by taking the wrong option in the final third of the pitch. All of the front 3 were culpable in taking shots from range when better passes were on and Vassell and Marriott guilty of holding the ball too long and losing possession. I think Marriotts confidence is just on the floor at the moment in front of goal and that miss won't do him any favours (super cross from SOD by the way, obviously been doing a lot of work on his delivery). He still looks dangerous and gets in good positions and situations, but he just looks like he has forgotten how to finish, we need him to remember as we can't expect Hylton and McGeehan to score all our goals if we want to be a playoff team.

Ive said it loads but I think we are a year away from being a promotion calibre team and the recent games have just further reinforced that to me.

 

[Kenneth E End]

Thought it was a good, enjoyable and competitive game yesterday. Don't particularly agree that it was more niggly than others; there were a few cynical and robust challenges coming in from both sides.

Christian Walton has been excellent for us this season, but you can't compensate for the error he made yesterday. He's a young player, one with a lot of potential - no keeper is infallible. In my opinion, he's still the best keeper in the division and there's no chance he'll be playing at this level next season, and probably not the level above.

Was a good response and apart from the point blank saves just after Luton's equaliser and the chance at the end, I think Carlisle really were restricted to few chances. I thought defensively we were as good as we've been all season; the way we setup prior to Sheehan's departure looked ideal for us. Scott Cuthbert was a warrior and has been our best defender this season; in comparison to last season when he was a wimp.

As for the red card, I was really unconvinced. I've not seen it back yet, but its Hylton...

 

[mowgli]

Who the fuck takes a lollipop to a football match ffs?

 

[cufc17]

Just seen the highlights and I can't see how Raynes was shown a red card for what was barely a foul. The ref seemed to have a good view of the incident but didn't blow up.

 

[Kenneth E End]

Just seen the highlights and I can't see how Raynes was shown a red card for what was barely a foul. The ref seemed to have a good view of the incident but didn't blow up.

I've just watched it back and the contact looks minimal. He played together at Oxford with Hylton (and Mullins) too.

I think the referee and assistant were in a rock and a hard place there. He had to make a quick decision; as soon as he flags for the foul, he has to red card him as per the offence he was adjudged to have committed.

 

[hellogregory]

It's really hard to see on the highlights but he does have his arm up. Whether or not it made contact I can't tell, but there's no chance of winning an appeal so hardly worth the £1000 or whatever it is an appeal costs.

 

[Judge Dredd]

(super cross from SOD by the way, obviously been doing a lot of work on his delivery).

Hmm well he put in that one fantastic delivery but then a succession of terrible ones in the second half. By the end he was clearly bottling crossing opportunities and passing it simple as he had no confidence in his own ability to deliver it.

 

[hellogregory]

Another note from the highlights, Adams really should be burying that chance at the end. Enough power but poor accuracy. Either side of the keeper and we take home 3 points, deserved or undeserved.

 

[BelizeHatter]

Niggley performance with both underachieving and capable of much more with a lack of fluidity........and thats just the respective fans on here ;-) !!!!

 

[BelizeHatter]

.............apart from Urban being on usual top form and not missing a single sniff at goal!!!!

 

[shoddycollins]

.............apart from Urban being on usual top form and not missing a single sniff at goal!!!!

Who's up for awarding man (or perhaps woman) of the match on the match threads then. Urban can take this one.

 

[Kenneth E End]

On another note, I don't think I've ever seen a goalkeeper time waste as early as Gillespie did yesterday. Not even 7 minutes on the clock.

For a team that was top of the league a week before, that's pretty poor.

 

[Urban]

Who's up for awarding man (or perhaps woman) of the match on the match threads then. Urban can take this one.

Happy to be appreciated at the awards guys

 

[shoddycollins]

On another note, I don't think I've ever seen a goalkeeper time waste as early as Gillespie did yesterday. Not even 7 minutes on the clock.

For a team that was top of the league a week before, that's pretty poor.

Read the rest of the thread Kenny... That's not 'another note', but very much the same note that has dominated the previous page.

 

[Judge Dredd]

Another note from the highlights, Adams really should be burying that chance at the end. Enough power but poor accuracy. Either side of the keeper and we take home 3 points, deserved or undeserved.

Agreed, that was a bad miss. We do leak clear-cut chances but seem to have the luck of the draw in opposition teams messing them up which helps our defensive record.

 

[hellogregory]

We've successfully appealed the red card and it has been overturned.

Quite surprised but apparently they had footage from another angle that showed it more clear

 

[Kenneth E End]

We've successfully appealed the red card and it has been overturned.

Quite surprised but apparently they had footage from another angle that showed it more clear

I find that an astonishing decision. Another angle? From where exactly? Because there are none by that part of the pitch.

 

[hellogregory]

I find that an astonishing decision. Another angle? From where exactly? Because there are none by that part of the pitch.

I've no idea where, I'm nothing to do with it.

The camera angle used for the highlights wasn't clear at all which is why I thought we wouldn't appeal.

However I was told last night that the club had footage from another camera angle that showed clearly that there was no elbow to the face of Hylton. Evidence was submitted to the FA yesterday and they overturned the red card today.

I was astonished as well because Hylton went down like a sack of shit and was adamant in his post match comments that he was elbowed in the face by Raynes.

 

[Kenneth E End]

I've no idea where, I'm nothing to do with it.

The camera angle used for the highlights wasn't clear at all which is why I thought we wouldn't appeal.

However I was told last night that the club had footage from another camera angle that showed clearly that there was no elbow to the face of Hylton. Evidence was submitted to the FA yesterday and they overturned the red card today.

I was astonished as well because Hylton went down like a sack of shit and was adamant in his post match comments that he was elbowed in the face by Raynes.

If you look at my comments earlier in the thread, I said that I was unconvinced at the time that it was a genuine foul on Hylton, but there definitely isn't conclusive evidence, in my opinion, to overturn the referee's decision.

 

[That Fat Centre Half]

Was pretty sceptical about it at the time, Hylton was looking to get one over your centre halves, having been on the wrong end of some poor tackles and took the opportunity to make something out of nothing IMO.

Have to agree with Curle that Jones comments afterward about it being cowardly were probably over the mark too, should have just brushed over it even if that's what he genuinely thought or what he was informed by Hylton.

Don't know where this extra camera angle has come from, be interesting to see the footage it records though as the current angle isn't always the best!

 

[shoddycollins]

I'm surprised it's been overturned, but I guess if a different angle showed conclusively there was no contact and therefore no foul then they have to overturn it. If there had been contact then it would be the referee's opinion whether it was intentional and they don't overturn the subjective view of the referee because then you're just replacing one subjective decision with another, but they will overturn decisions which were objectively incorrect. Raynes must have known if his elbow brushed against nothing but air and told this to the club who based their decision to appeal on the hope evidence showing this would exist, or indeed if they'd already got the footage.

 

[shoddycollins]

I've no idea where, I'm nothing to do with it.The camera angle used for the highlights wasn't clear at all which is why I thought we wouldn't appeal.

We all know that the footage was taken with your mobile phone HG

 

[hellogregory]

If you look at my comments earlier in the thread, I said that I was unconvinced at the time that it was a genuine foul on Hylton, but there definitely isn't conclusive evidence, in my opinion, to overturn the referee's decision.

I haven't seen any either, but there must have been some evidence that made it clear.

The FA don't go against their officials at the drop of a hat. Evidence has to be clear for them to overturn something. I know this from past experience of the FA not overturning decisions that I've thought were fairly obviously wrong.

 

[hellogregory]

Have to agree with Curle that Jones comments afterward about it being cowardly were probably over the mark too,

Well to be fair Hylton has obviously told Jones that Raynes has deliberately smashed his elbow into his face. Given the fact Hylton already wears a face mask I can't blame Jones for calling it cowardly. He wasn't to know that his player was bull shitting.