The Bolton (Relegation) Thread

[Devon_Lad]

Still here mucker

Do we need to remind you of your posts in Aug/Sept?

I'd go into hiding still. You're lucky my amusement is now laughing at Carlisle, otherwise I'd be asking why you haven't jumped on your title winning bus parade yet?

 

[masi51]

Do we need to remind you of your posts in Aug/Sept?

I'd go into hiding still. You're lucky my amusement is now laughing at Carlisle, otherwise I'd be asking why you haven't jumped on your title winning bus parade yet?

Feel free you put across your view.......no issue with what you put

 

[Son of Cod]

What do you mean spent?......we are under a Transfer embargo
All the players we signed came from good scouting and were available to other lge 2 clubs

I would imagine Grimsby have a bigger budget than say FGR and Morecambe, but i will agree that we pushed the boat out in January.
Our owners have given Evatt a big vote of confidence

Massive signing on fees and huge wages your players are on due to that before end of June/July loophole thing. Looks like it will work out for you though, so I'm pleased for you. No doubt you'll do the same in L1. Maybe there'll be nobody to bail you out this time though and you'll finally go bust. You can expect a message from me when that happens with directions to Skegness.

I actually think Morecambe are on a higher budget than they usually are. I'd say we were probably on a smaller budget than FGR at the start of the season but the change in personnel and scramble to avoid the drop at our club has probably inflated it. There's no question that we started the season on one of the smallest in the league.

 

[masi51]

Massive signing on fees and huge wages your players are on due to that before end of June/July loophole thing. Looks like it will work out for you though, so I'm pleased for you. No doubt you'll do the same in L1. Maybe there'll be nobody to bail you out this time though and you'll finally go bust. You can expect a message from me when that happens with directions to Skegness.

I actually think Morecambe are on a higher budget than they usually are. I'd say we were probably on a smaller budget than FGR at the start of the season but the change in personnel and scramble to avoid the drop at our club has probably inflated it. There's no question that we started the season on one of the smallest in the league.

You made a lot of sense until the first word........So i will go a little slow WE.....ARE.....UNDER.....A......TRANSFER.....EMBARGO.......WE........CANNOT......PAY......SIGNING.....ON.....FEES
Cutting out the bullshit as you put a decent debate out most times i would say our Turnover is Proberbly six or seven times that of Grimsby in a normal year .Paying double even treble what most teams in lge 1/2 do on wages will not financially stretch us.
All the best next season when roles are reversed on the non league forums and you are explaining to someone from say down in say the eighth or ninth stage of the pyramid say like a Bury Phoenix that Grimsby can pay decent wages because they dont pay subs like Bury Phoenix

 

[Son of Cod]

You made a lot of sense until the first word........So i will go a little slow WE.....ARE.....UNDER.....A......TRANSFER.....EMBARGO.......WE........CANNOT......PAY......SIGNING.....ON.....FEES
Cutting out the bullshit as you put a decent debate out most times i would say our Turn over is Proberbly six or seven times that of Grimsby in a normal year .Paying double even treble what most teams in lge 1/2 do on wages will not financially stretch us.
All the best next season when roles are reversed on the non league forums and you are explaining to someone from say down in say the eighth or ninth stage of the pyramid say like a Bury Phoenix that Grimsby can pay decent wages because they dont pay subs like Bury Phoenix

Do you know the difference between a transfer fee and a signing on fee? Unless you're able to share a link that states that Bolton aren't allowed to add signing on fees and bonuses into their contracts then I'm assuming the embargo is just for transfer fees.

As I've said time and time again to you too, turnover means very little if you're being ran unsustainably. Profit/loss is key.

Also, the first word I used was "massive", thought that was Bolton's fave word tbh.

 

[masi51]

Do you know the difference between a transfer fee and a signing on fee? Unless you're able to share a link that states that Bolton aren't allowed to add signing on fees and bonuses into their contracts then I'm assuming the embargo is just for transfer fees.

As I've said time and time again to you too, turnover means very little if you're being ran unsustainably. Profit/loss is key.

Also, the first word I used was "massive", thought that was Bolton's fave word tbh.

Yes one the club gets the other the player gets. It is also against paying agents fees and limits us too how many players we can sign.
Please tell me 1 team being run at a profit
Bolton are a lower premier/high championship team. No way are they massive

 

[SF_]

Well done on finding form in the 4th tier with the highest paid squad in the league.

Get that manager tied down.

 

[masi51]

Well done on finding form in the 4th tier with the highest paid squad in the league.

Get that manager tied down.

Somebody has to have that mantle.....it certainly means we can attract a better squad
Just like Sunderland in the league above.

 

[stevowanderer]

Do you know the difference between a transfer fee and a signing on fee? Unless you're able to share a link that states that Bolton aren't allowed to add signing on fees and bonuses into their contracts then I'm assuming the embargo is just for transfer fees.

As I've said time and time again to you too, turnover means very little if you're being ran unsustainably. Profit/loss is key.

Also, the first word I used was "massive", thought that was Bolton's fave word tbh.

Signing on fees don’t really work like they used to. They are normally nowadays loyalty bonuses paid over the life of a contract. Doyle is on a 3 year deal. Even if in your eyes we gave him 100k signing on (which we didn’t) that’s £641 per week. Usually if the player leaves the club during his contract the club will come to an arrangement to pay it off or settle the outstanding amount depending on how desperate the player is to leave. Win bonuses etc yes .. our contracts have win bonuses but we didn’t win in the first half of the season so didn’t cost us anything. Haha. Aren’t all clubs still tied to FFP as well? So it’s not like we can spend outside our means. Not sure about that anyone can really anymore and get away with it. Virtually all of our historical debt was run up pre ffp. You can’t fund a club like you used to be able to.

This ownership is a lot more sustainable and has openly said that we have budgeted for league 2 this season within our embargo constraints and within the salary cap. Our previous owner just stopped funding the club whilst drawing a pretty healthy salary for him and his son. Historical debts were mainly to a benefactor and even then the club was badly managed higher up. This is the best set of owners we’ve had in my lifetime in my opinion. IMO the club is the most sustainable it’s been in my lifetime despite the pandemic.

The salary cap loophole doesn’t make that much of a difference anyway because it just uses the average league 2 wage doesn’t it before it came in? Our highest paid player is on 3k a week basic. Doyle, sarcevic, delfouneso, Crawford and a few others signed before the caps. Gilks (gk coach), Declan John, mj Williams, Kieran Lee, Afolayan, Marcus Maddison and a good chunk of the others were signed/loaned after the cap and before it was cancelled so are within those guidelines.

The Pandemic obviously won’t have helped any team so it’s even more important now that we don’t overspend and gamble with the club to get back to where we were.

 

[Devon_Lad]

Please tell me 1 team being run at a profit

Exeter City F.C

 

[stevowanderer]

Exeter City F.C

Wasn’t that long ago Exeter had lots of debt due to a rogue owner and ended up in a CVA. Now they are much better for it. Pot calling kettle black. We are on the way to recovery after a tough time. Plenty of clubs have been through it and more than either of our clubs.

 

[masi51]

Exeter City F.C

your last accounts for 2019
702k loss against a projected loss of 1.2m due to reaching the play offs and receiving money for Jaydon Stockley

Your club like ALL others is being run at a loss

Your Watkins money this year will cut your losses but thats all

 

[stevowanderer]

your last accounts for 2019
702k loss against a projected loss of 1.2m due to reaching the play offs and receiving money for Jaydon Stockley

Your club like ALL others is being run at a loss

Your Watkins money this year will cut your losses but thats all

Forgot about that Watkins money. Did we lose our sell on for Rob Holding because Ken settled it? Would be worth a mill or 2.

 

[Devon_Lad]

Wasn’t that long ago Exeter had lots of debt due to a rogue owner and ended up in a CVA. Now they are much better for it. Pot calling kettle black. We are on the way to recovery after a tough time. Plenty of clubs have been through it and more than either of our clubs.

Yes, and we now our own football club.

your last accounts for 2019
702k loss against a projected loss of 1.2m due to reaching the play offs and receiving money for Jaydon Stockley

Your club like ALL others is being run at a loss

Your Watkins money this year will cut your losses but thats all

You needed to keep reading.
"The balance sheet shows that the club maintains its planned positive cash position. Current retained earnings are almost £2m."

You cannot say we are operating at a loss, when we spending disposable income we already have in the bank from the previous year, on things like a pitch upgrades and training ground improvements and increasing our budget.

This is covered by previous years accounts - We are not spending money we don't have, it's money we have already generated as a business.

If a business has surplus cash from being profitable, and they choose to invest said money the following year that is not operating at a loss, just because the account one year show it as that. It's money we've already generated. We are not putting any extra money into the coffers and are self efficient on money we have made. We also this year made a £1m payment back to the Trust, which was borrowed nearly 20 years ago, because we are not just operating at neutral, but at a massive surplus - If you care to check 5 years of accounts, instead of a small statement by the club. If you actually click the link with a breakdown, you'd have realised this.

 

[Robshep]

Somebody has to have that mantle.....it certainly means we can attract a better squad
Just like Sunderland in the league above.

Sunderland have been in League 1 for a few years.

 

[Robshep]

Signing on fees don’t really work like they used to. They are normally nowadays loyalty bonuses paid over the life of a contract. Doyle is on a 3 year deal. Even if in your eyes we gave him 100k signing on (which we didn’t) that’s £641 per week. Usually if the player leaves the club during his contract the club will come to an arrangement to pay it off or settle the outstanding amount depending on how desperate the player is to leave. Win bonuses etc yes .. our contracts have win bonuses but we didn’t win in the first half of the season so didn’t cost us anything. Haha. Aren’t all clubs still tied to FFP as well? So it’s not like we can spend outside our means. Not sure about that anyone can really anymore and get away with it. Virtually all of our historical debt was run up pre ffp. You can’t fund a club like you used to be able to.

This ownership is a lot more sustainable and has openly said that we have budgeted for league 2 this season within our embargo constraints and within the salary cap. Our previous owner just stopped funding the club whilst drawing a pretty healthy salary for him and his son. Historical debts were mainly to a benefactor and even then the club was badly managed higher up. This is the best set of owners we’ve had in my lifetime in my opinion. IMO the club is the most sustainable it’s been in my lifetime despite the pandemic.

The salary cap loophole doesn’t make that much of a difference anyway because it just uses the average league 2 wage doesn’t it before it came in? Our highest paid player is on 3k a week basic. Doyle, sarcevic, delfouneso, Crawford and a few others signed before the caps. Gilks (gk coach), Declan John, mj Williams, Kieran Lee, Afolayan, Marcus Maddison and a good chunk of the others were signed/loaned after the cap and before it was cancelled so are within those guidelines.

The Pandemic obviously won’t have helped any team so it’s even more important now that we don’t overspend and gamble with the club to get back to where we were.

The highest paid player at Tranmere Rovers is on £1,800 pw and he used to play for you.

 

[masi51]

Yes, and we now our own football club.


You needed to keep reading.
"The balance sheet shows that the club maintains its planned positive cash position. Current retained earnings are almost £2m."

You cannot say we are operating at a loss, when we spending disposable income we already have in the bank from the previous year, on things like a pitch upgrades and training ground improvements and increasing our budget.

This is covered by previous years accounts - We are not spending money we don't have, it's money we have already generated as a business.

If a business has surplus cash from being profitable, and they choose to invest said money the following year that is not operating at a loss, just because the account one year show it as that. It's money we've already generated. We are not putting any extra money into the coffers and are self efficient on money we have made. We also this year made a £1m payment back to the Trust, which was borrowed nearly 20 years ago, because we are not just operating at neutral, but at a massive surplus - If you care to check 5 years of accounts, instead of a small statement by the club. If you actually click the link with a breakdown, you'd have realised this.

Good reply.......fair points

 

[stevowanderer]

The highest paid player at Tranmere Rovers is on £1,800 pw and he used to play for you.

That could be a number of players lol? You must be a long way below salary cap then or have more players on level wages. We have a few higher earners and loads that earn a lot less who have turned out to be crap bar a couple.

 

[masi51]

Forgot about that Watkins money. Did we lose our sell on for Rob Holding because Ken settled it? Would be worth a mill or 2.

No The was talk of him going to Burnley last pre season......Signed a new contract at Arsenal
Anderson settled on other clauses.
Think we may get Something if Nat Phillips moves on from Liverpool this season

 

[stevowanderer]

No The was talk of him going to Burnley last pre season......Signed a new contract at Arsenal
Anderson settled on other clauses.
Think we may get Something if Nat Phillips moves on from Liverpool this season

Was hoping Nat Phillips may want to come home tbh. But that’s very wishful thinking. Maybe if we were in the championship but no chance league 2 or best case scenario 1. Pretty sure he’s out of contract isn’t he? Unless he signed a new deal. Wouldn’t mind seeing what evatt could do with Zach Clough. Pretty sure he is out of contract.

 

[masi51]

The highest paid player at Tranmere Rovers is on £1,800 pw and he used to play for you.

Spearing on 1.8k...........Dont think so Blackpool offered him double plus that.
Wonders how you think you know what your players are on.......no accounts published yet

Just plucked a number from thin air

 

[Robshep]

Spearing on 1.8k...........Dont think so Blackpool offered him double plus that.
Wonders how you think you know what your players are on.......no accounts published yet

Just plucked a number from thin air

I kow his family.

 

[Robshep]

I kow his family.

Know.

 

[masi51]

Was hoping Nat Phillips may want to come home tbh. But that’s very wishful thinking. Maybe if we were in the championship but no chance league 2 or best case scenario 1. Pretty sure he’s out of contract isn’t he? Unless he signed a new deal. Wouldn’t mind seeing what evatt could do with Zach Clough. Pretty sure he is out of contract.

The ship has sailed for both these players with us.
Hope Evatt can work with Politic seems to have given up on Darcy......One player who i think we could get back is connell.
Whatever league we are in next season we will be in better shape than any of the previous 5 seasons

 

[Devon_Lad]

Forgot about that Watkins money. Did we lose our sell on for Rob Holding because Ken settled it? Would be worth a mill or 2.

The Watkins money isn't a random fund with luck. Ampadu, Grimes, Storey, Nichols, Stansfield..

It's a steady revenue stream for ourselves and it's a return on investment which we've put into our club.

It's our business model

 

[Robshep]

That could be a number of players lol? You must be a long way below salary cap then or have more players on level wages. We have a few higher earners and loads that earn a lot less who have turned out to be crap bar a couple.

They might have very good bonuses.

 

[stevowanderer]

I think ultimately it doesn’t matter who spends what. It’s the end result. The further up the leagues you go the harder it is to compete. If we don’t go up this season it will be a failure and we will reset. A lot of people have said that we wouldn’t have it our own way this season and they were right. I personally wasn’t sure what to expect. I certainly didn’t think we would walk it. I was excited but cautious because the last few years have been horrendous. These last 10 games have been our best in years.

I think something that resembles this squad If we dont go up will be much better placed next season to go up automatically. We have stopped the multi season rot which we have had. And hopefully can build from it.

 

[stevowanderer]

The Watkins money isn't a random fund with luck. Ampadu, Grimes, Storey, Nichols, Stansfield..

It's a steady revenue stream for ourselves and it's a return on investment which we've put into our club.

It's our business model

Yeah I never said it was. You’ve got a great pedigree for developing players - youth or from non-league. It’s the only way long term to be sustainable. And would love us to support a similar model in years to come

 

[stevowanderer]

They might have very good bonuses.

I was always gutted when Spearing left. He was one I was desperate to keep at the time. Feeney wasn’t great for us. Seems to be playing well for you on highlights I’ve seen

 

[stevowanderer]

The ship has sailed for both these players with us.
Hope Evatt can work with Politic seems to have given up on Darcy......One player who i think we could get back is connell.
Whatever league we are in next season we will be in better shape than any of the previous 5 seasons

I think Darcy will come into it. Think he needs a year or 2 out on loan though. He’s still a kid. Connell was different class before he left. Would love him back. Almost forgot about politic. Being out a whole season - we don’t know what type of player we are getting back. He looked quality before the injury.