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The Future of England 2.0

Ebeneezer Goode

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Football Association chairman Greg Dyke today outlined new proposals to change the rules governing home grown players in English football.

The recommendations are the latest in a series of initiatives identified as part of the England Commission, set up by Dyke in 2013 to look at ways of improving the chances of young English talent succeeding at the highest levels of the game.

Following FA-led discussions the Home Office has also confirmed changes to the existing work permit regulations, to ensure only the most talented non-EU players meet new criteria.

The changes to the home grown player rules as proposed by Dyke are:

  • A change in the definition of home grown player to any player, irrespective of their nationality, who has been registered with any club affiliated to The FA or Football Association of Wales (FAW) for a period of three years prior to the player’s 18th birthday (currently the definition states a home grown player has to be registered with The FA or FAW for three years before their 21st birthday).
  • A reduction in the maximum number of non-home grown players permitted in a club’s first team squad of 25 from 17 to 13, phased over four years from 2016. This would have the effect of ensuring that in a squad of 25, 12 players would have to be home grown.
  • The introduction of a requirement that at least two home grown players are also club trained players (a club trained player is defined as any player, irrespective of nationality, that has been registered for three years at their current club prior to their 18th birthday).
The England Commission identified four key areas which were contributing to a shortage of top quality English players breaking through to the top tier of club football. These were:

  • A lack of quality coaching.
  • An absence of quality facilities at grassroots level.
  • A lack of opportunities for home grown players to play competitive first team football between the ages of 18 and 21.
  • The regulation of the English players market’s effectiveness in preserving the desired balance of British, EU and non-EU players.
To start addressing these problems, in October 2014, The FA announced a major investment in coaching including a new head of coaching education at St. George’s Park, 35 full-time FA coach educators and a plan to drastically raise the number of Advanced Youth and Pro Licence coaching qualification holders.

The FA also announced a plan to create football hubs in 30 English cities by 2020, with a 130% increase in artificial grass pitches in urban areas and a 50% rise in publicly accessible full-size pitches.

“The FA’s duty is to create as many opportunities as possible for young home grown talent to compete at the highest level”


But Dyke believes the final part of the pipeline for young home grown talent is still broken. Today’s proposed rule changes are designed to fix this long running problem.

Young players in other leading European footballing nations are being given greater opportunities to play regular senior club football between the crucial ages of 18 and 21.

English Under-21 players are getting less than half the playing time of their German, Spanish and French equivalents across the major five European leagues.

For the 12 clubs who have played in every one of the last five Premier League seasons, the number of home grown players per squad has decreased from 11.4 to 9.4. This is exacerbated by the fact that only 62% of current home grown players are qualified to play for England.

Dyke said: “The Premier League clubs, who invest millions of pounds through their academies and the Elite Player Performance Programme (EPPP), are doing a fantastic job at developing young talent. But many of the home grown players being developed at these academies are not breaking through to play regular first team football.

“The Premier League has already recognised the problem and introduced home grown player quotas. But since those rules were introduced in 2010, the average number of home grown players in a Premier League squad has stayed largely the same and has actually decreased significantly at the 12 clubs who have been ever present in the League during that period.”

The FA will now embark on a period of consultation with all stakeholders in English football with the stated aim of introducing these changes over a phased four-season period so they are fully in force by the start of the 2019-2020 season.

Dyke added: “In 2014, just 23 English players were playing Champions League football. That compares with 78 Spanish players, 55 from Germany and even 51 from Brazil – and the numbers will only get worse. If we want to maintain a national side capable of competing against the world’s best, we need change.

“As the body responsible for all of English football, it’s The FA’s duty to create as many opportunities as possible for young home grown talent to compete at the highest level.

“This is not simply because it will increase the pool of quality players available to the England manager, but because the development of genuine, local talent is fundamental to the sustainability of our clubs and the health of our national game.

“These proposals will ensure that the letter of the law around home grown players matches the spirit in which they were first conceived. We want the whole of the English game to support these proposals.”


Read more at http://www.thefa.com/news/thefa/2015/mar/greg-dyke-england-commission-homegrown-
 

mente captus

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i am against such quotas, it will increase the gap between the top clubs and the rest. the top clubs will sign every english player who is half decent and the rest has to use the league one material which has to be fielded for the quota
 

Ebeneezer Goode

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They'll just have to invest more in their scouting networks and academies then. It's not like they're going to be short of money.
 

JimJams

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It's all bullshit really isn't it?

The England Commission identified four key areas which were contributing to a shortage of top quality English players breaking through to the top tier of club football. These were:

The exact same things you highlighted, 3, 4, 5 years ago, 10 years ago, and yet...

One thing I'd like to see introduced is some way of making it so that any club that wishes to buy a young English player (could even stretch it to any player though really) under the age of 21 years for example, is obliged to play X number of games for the first team, or X number of minutes. Any club buying a young player that can't guarantee those minutes would then either have to look at leaving the player at their original club on loan to get those minutes, or loan out to a different club. There's obviously complications that would need to be worked out, but it'd stop players like Zaha getting signed up by Man Utd or Rodwell by Man City for example, and then not seeing them get any games. The problem is that the big clubs want/need players they buy to be the finished article to play those minutes, yet they also want to get in while they're young and developing for 2 reasons, firstly cos they're cheaper, and secondly because they want to get in there before a competitor does. These goals are at odds with each other though, which is why young players waste years of their developing careers earning big money but playing little football.
It could go as drastic as levelling a forced sale at a set figure if a player doesn't achieve a number of minutes/performances over a schedule of maybe 2 seasons. This would mean that bigger clubs would see buying up young talent as a gamble, but also tests how much they genuinely believe in the player, and that they're not just trying to hijack another clubs interest as a preventative tool. With that it would also show the young player that the club has confidence enough in their ability to give them a genuine chance of playing, and that they aren't signing with no chance to actually prove themselves.
Again there's problems to iron out in any of these situations, injuries being the most obvious starting point. But the FA has the money, resources and time to be able to put some more though into it.

Bet they don't though.
 

BigDaveCUFC

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for all I dislike the rules switching to help the top flight usually, one I'd like introduced is independent panels setting transfer fee's, English players are vastly, vastly over=priced which I think causes a big problem in respect of players in the top flight, why spend £10 million for a Championship striker when you can spend £2 million for a south American international striker.

but its not easy and my other problem is I'd like investment in the lower leagues, but that money by LL clubs would just get shoved in paying OTT wages to journeymen lumps who again get vastly over-payed.
 

BigDaveCUFC

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oh and my as such point is that however terrible it sounds I do not think there is anything can be done to salvage England anymore.

the top flight is full of clubs with marketing their biggest interest, most managers whether English or not have self interest of their position at the forefront as we're in an era of quick sackings so they want players for them first, England isn't even a thought, the owners care about money, the Fans care about club success more than international success.

the lower leagues also have greed as their main feeding point of interest while lower league fans hate the top flight and frankly do not at all want any link-up with them at all, LL has an extremely short-term mentality and hasn't time for thought about development, nor the money as it goes into inflated wages.

non-league hates the FL, also hates the fact no money drifts down to them, it also has main interest in getting into the FL because of said money and has an 'at all costs' approach which means again no interest in long-term development.

the entire English game is based on short-term mentality with a full on focus on money, the players from non-league to the top level are paid over-inflated wages so its hard to get movement through the ladders and there is rifts of hate between non-league-FL-Premiership and neither really want to work with others.

all managers top to bottom have such short-term lifespans that none can build legacies anymore, nor build youth, England is a long-distance second to clubs, managers and fans...........with so many other things ahead of it.

with all these scenarios of short-term self interest you have no chance ever of this changing and its now too far to go back.
 

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Problem:
"For the 12 clubs who have played in every one of the last five Premier League seasons, the number of home grown players per squad has decreased from 11.4 to 9.4. This is exacerbated by the fact that only 62% of current home grown players are qualified to play for England."

Solution:
"A change in the definition of home grown player to any player, irrespective of their nationality, who has been registered with any club affiliated to The FA or Football Association of Wales (FAW) for a period of three years prior to the player’s 18th birthday (currently the definition states a home grown player has to be registered with The FA or FAW for three years before their 21st birthday)."

Errr, so the % of home grown players qualified to play for England will become dramatically diluted further? The biggest clubs with the best scouting contacts and networks can just fill their academy up with 15 year old Brazilians and Spaniards etc? That'll be lovely for the England setup won't it.

We've seen in recent years that fiddling with quotas tends to result with (as JimJam says) Rodwell, Zaha, Ross Turnbull, John Bostock etc being signed up to sit on the bench or reserves of the biggest few clubs as soon as they show some potential for a smaller club. I'm not saying that had those example players stayed at smaller clubs playing every week that they would have become world class greats. But we have to walk before we run.

Changing the definition of home grown player to be irrespective of nationality MAY help prevent that above situation, because Man City won't feel the need to buy a token couple of English/British players for their bench, but I can't help thinking it'll just end up with elite academies even more full of foreign kids than we see already.

I like the bits around increasing the quality of pitches available around the country. It's an utter farce that we have this multi billion £ industry at Premiership level, yet pitches all over the country are unusable for months of a year at a time for kids because they're of crap quality. This should have been happening 15 years ago but it's better late than never, if it actually happens this time (because we've been saying this for years). And it could probably do with MORE resources still putting into it.
 

Madejski

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Errr, so the % of home grown players qualified to play for England will become dramatically diluted further? The biggest clubs with the best scouting contacts and networks can just fill their academy up with 15 year old Brazilians and Spaniards etc? That'll be lovely for the England setup won't it.

I believe players can't transfer from one club to another internationally until they are 16. So the main change in this ruling is that players like Cesc Fabregas and Gael Clichy who currently count as home grown won't. Which is fair enough, the home grown quota is supposed to ensure that there are some English/Welsh players playing in the Prem and clubs are forced to have a certain amount in their squads. If these home grown limits are taken by players with no interest in playing for England/Wales but Spain/France instead than it really is pointless. It is more about closing loopholes than changing the system.

The increase from 8 homegrown to 12 alongside this will only help too. Almost half a Premier League's squad then would have to have players who are eligible to play for England or Wales.

I'm glad that the FA are taking measures that are beneficial to the English national team and will have some negative effects on our leagues quality (though I don't think the change would be that different). Awaiting the Premier League's negative response to this.
 

ArmchairDiehard

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As many, many people have pointed out, we're unlikely to see any real progress until we see an improvement in grass roots facilities. We're wasting our time with trying to build an England team from top to bottom. We need to build a successful England team from the bottom upwards. It's the only way.
 

Ebeneezer Goode

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You must have skipped the bit about grass-roots. And I think it's being glossed over how much of an impact these quota rules would have, they're almost too extreme.
 

ArmchairDiehard

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You must have skipped the bit about grass-roots. And I think it's being glossed over how much of an impact these quota rules would have, they're almost too extreme.

It wasn't really that piece in particular that I was getting at - although you're right they do finally appear to realise what really matters. But how long have we had this debate? The problem has always centered around the lack of facilities / coaches.
 

mente captus

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forget the home-grown-rule, will never be realized.

it would make it impossible even for EU Citizens to become home grown, thats an unfair advantage for british players and would collidate with the free movement for workers
 

mente captus

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but international transfers are only allowed from the age of 16 so eu citizens could never become home grown in england
 

Ebeneezer Goode

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but international transfers are only allowed from the age of 16 so eu citizens could never become home grown in england

You can move to England and become a footballer without being part of an under-age transfer. Dyke talked out the meetings they had with their lawyers regarding the numbers, so it seems unlikely that this issue could have escaped them.
 

Leewilson

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This is actually to do with Scotland but I thought rather than create a new thread it could go in here. I'm not even Scottish and this has pissed me off.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/32052408


Sbragia explained: 'Our concentration is on the opening game with Austria and we've deliberately got more height in our squad. That's one of the reasons why Jack isn't in.

'Unfortunately, I don't see enough of him in action. The last time he was with us, he did OK, but I wanted a little more impact. At Real Madrid he can float all over the place, which he does. But with us, he has to be more disciplined.

'He's an exceptionally gifted lad, but sometimes we can't carry him. He can be a luxury sometimes. In some cases, if it's going well, he can be a good luxury.'


This is an international U19 coach prioritising a result rather than looking to develop a gifted player who could be one of the best of his generation. Dinosaur, absolutely pissing dinosaur!
 
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Ebeneezer Goode

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Yeah I saw that posted on another forum. There are worse comments than that too. He said he wanted to fill the squad with tall runners essentially.
 

Super_horns

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Wasn't this guy at Man U for a time?

Goodness knows what he taught their youngsters!
 

ArmchairDiehard

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Didn't he manage Sunderland for a few games too? Maybe after Roy Keane left?
 
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Ebeneezer Goode

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Platini:

“We’re not only talking about England, we’re talking all of Europe.

“Mr Dyke’s struggle is something we share and we agree with him.

"With the new leader of the European Commission it is important we establish close relations to see how we can protect homegrown young players.

“We share the same perspective. We will work hand-in-hand to defend an idea that we think is the right one.”


Read more at http://www.thefa.com/news/thefa/201...-back-homegrown-proposals#qwDs4jTTt8wC92j9.99
 

Ebeneezer Goode

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CBCcKtpUkAAOGwf.jpg
 

Ebeneezer Goode

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Unless the FA are tolling their Twitter followers, it is yeah.
 

mnb089mnb

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Spanish bar is three times taller than the English one. The Italian one is significantly taller than the English one despite being only ~1,500 ahead.
It's terrible and doesn't illustrate the true picture. Also, France isn't one of the top five leagues. Portugal is via the UEFA coefficient. It'd have made more sense to include them.
 

Madejski

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Anyone know if it's higher/lower this season? Seems to be a few more homegrown U21 players playing at a top level atleast this season - Kane, Berahino, Chambers, Ward-Prowse, Reed etc.
 

mente captus

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Spanish bar is three times taller than the English one. The Italian one is significantly taller than the English one despite being only ~1,500 ahead.
It's terrible and doesn't illustrate the true picture. Also, France isn't one of the top five leagues. Portugal is via the UEFA coefficient. It'd have made more sense to include them.
furthermore consists the german league only of 18 clubs and had played 40 games less than the other leagues at this point.
 

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