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The Rooney Rule

WSBee

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/33015657

This idea has obviously been banded around a lot in the past few years.

I wondered what everyone's thoughts were on it.

Personally, I don't see how it will improve the number of black managers in the Football League - if a black manager is right for the job, they are employed.

You've only got to look at Hasselbaink, Powell and Hughton.

I do agree with the ideas behind it, though. Over to you!
 

Millersfan

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Absolute joke, imagine if it was the other way round and "white British" there would be uproar, what a daft idea. Giving people an automatic pass to an interview because they're black is racist ffs.
 

daviejones

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I'm glad that we've got a black manager, you're all a bunch of racists for not having one imo. Not like it's based on merit or anything; everyone knows Paul Ince would be at Real Madrid by now if the world wasn't so damn racist.
 

WSBee

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I'm glad that we've got a black manager, you're all a bunch of racists for not having one imo. Not like it's based on merit or anything; everyone knows Paul Ince would be at Real Madrid by now if the world wasn't so damn racist.

Rakish Bingham is secured a job for the future, at least.
 

Trapdoor

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Let me be the first to say Paul Ince cannot tie his own shoelaces.
 

RavenBish

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I think Moniz is black...

maybe.
 

Cardsfan

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Absolute joke, imagine if it was the other way round and "white British" there would be uproar, what a daft idea. Giving people an automatic pass to an interview because they're black is racist ffs.
But I am Sol Campbell.
 

WSBee

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cufc17

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I'm pretty sure one of our owners said he didn't realise Curle was black when he was first appointed.

If you're successful, you are more likely to get jobs, regardless of skin colour. As WSBee says above, there are several black managers who continue to get jobs in the FL.
 

Glasshalffullpools

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Positive racism , sexism , or any ism for that matter is effectively racism, sexism etc in reverse .
 

Gashead

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Why don't we have a 'shit managers' rule? Every manager around the country keeps/doesn't keep their job because of their ability and that's how it should be. Ince, Barnes et al. are unemployed because they're shit, not because they're black. Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink didn't get Burton promoted because he's black, he did it because he's proved a decent manager so far! Interviews and appointments should be done on ability, not race.

Anyway, if we really want to focus on race, doing it at Football League level isn't the way forward. Too late by then - will merely lead to the same managers/coaches time and again being interviewed, pretty pointless if you ask me. The real problem is a lack of 'ethnic minorities' doing their coaching badges, and getting to a level where they can coach and manage at a high level. There was data from a while back (will dig it up at some point) which showed there was a much higher percentage of black players in the game than there was black people on coaching courses. If they want to increase the amount of 'non-white coaches', do it at that level. Encourage current and former pro players, subsidise coaching courses (for grassroots coaches of all races and backgrounds!!) and encourage players and coaches at grassroots level to actually go and further themselves.
 
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Glasshalffullpools

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Without causing an uproar; some races don't suit some sports, the Asian frame is not ideal for football, just as the heavier boned black sportsmen are no good at swimming but excellent for sprinting ... I'm not sure the percentage , but as far as players go, the black community is proportionately represented
 

mnb089mnb

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Seems like a sensible move. Genuinely have no idea why people get upset by it.
 

Glasshalffullpools

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Because this list is a " no whites allowed " list.. I can see it's well intentioned, but it just won't work, how do you get on this list? You certainly can't advertise excluding whites, the lawyers will have a field day
 

daviejones

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I don't see a problem either. It won't exactly do anyone any harm - the BME managers get their job interviews and then it is once again down to a 'best man wins' system, but everybody is being judged on merit instead of what must be happening in a small amount of cases where people are instantly ruled out based on the colour of their skin.

If you're arguing for positive discrimination being racist towards white people then you might as well just deny racism towards BMEs exists altogether; it does, and measures like this are sensible to put in place to at least ensure equality of opportunity for everyone.
 

Aber gas

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Without causing an uproar; some races don't suit some sports, the Asian frame is not ideal for football, just as the heavier boned black sportsmen are no good at swimming but excellent for sprinting ... I'm not sure the percentage , but as far as players go, the black community is proportionately represented
Why is the Asian frame not suitable for football ? Not having a go, just seems a weird thing to say . Kagawa, son , ozil, turan , gundogan, dai, nakata ect
 

Glasshalffullpools

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Thailand Philippines China Indonesia India, between them they must make up going on for half the world's population not many world beaters coming through, it's no coincidence the best in the world are Latin players, forcing people to accept we are all the same is folly
 

Aber gas

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Thailand Philippines China Indonesia India, between them they must make up going on for half the world's population not many world beaters coming through, it's no coincidence the best in the world are Latin players, forcing people to accept we are all the same is folly
But surely that's a cultural issue , up until recently and in some cases currently football wasn't the dominant sport in any of those countries . Without any legacy or history of football it's difficult to bring through world stars . It's got nothing to with genetic build or size . Messi is hardly built like a brick shithouse is he ?
 

iWomble

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About one in four players in the top 92 clubs are non-white and only one in fifteen managers. I can't find the figures now but the chances of making a shortlist for a non-white candidate are even lower. The proposed rule doesn't say you have to appoint a black candidate, it says that if one or more apply then at least one should be shortlisted. That goes some tiny way to redressing the imbalance. I'd support it in any whatever industry where there is a clear imbalance and inequality in opportunity regardless of which way round the white/non-white imbalance is. For people saying "the best person should get the job" I'd seriously like to hear suggestions on how you achieve that when statistically one group of the population don't get an equal chance to demonstarte how good (or in Ince's case, how bad) they actually are.
 

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Don't see the point myself. You can interview 10 black guys and hire that one white guy. How about the number of Asian managers?
 

daviejones

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Don't see the point myself. You can interview 10 black guys and hire that one white guy. How about the number of Asian managers?
Once again this is a misunderstanding of the point of this rule. It's designed to get BME managers to the stage where they can actually put forward their proposals - the hope is that if you put 10 'black guys' in the interview process then they will have the opportunity to show why they deserve the job more than other applicants, whereas before maybe certain 'black guys' would be dismissed by owners upon viewing their application, just because they're 'black guys'.

And BMEs - the group towards which this rule is directed - includes all ethnic minorities, not just 'black guys'.
 

iWomble

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And I do entirely agree that concentrating on the top jobs is only part of it
Don't see the point myself. You can interview 10 black guys and hire that one white guy. How about the number of Asian managers?

That is true, it can be sidestepped, and as others have said it needs to be done at a much lower level too so people have the badges etc in the first place. There's also a danger it becomes a box-ticking exercise, or even worse a club always sticks a candidate in for interview who stands no chance. I still think it's symbolically important though because at least formally it says this is a career that is genuinely open to all - so more good candidates come forward, more Haisselbainks get employed, and a wheel starts rolling .
 

G-Dragon

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the hope is that if you put 10 'black guys' in the interview process then they will have the opportunity to show why they deserve the job more than other applicants, whereas before maybe certain 'black guys' would be dismissed by owners upon viewing their application, just because they're 'black guys'.
If the owners are already prejudice against black people then I don't see how the interview will change their mind. Owners who don't reject applicants just because they are black would interview the person regardless of the rule. For others its just a forced rule with a loop hole, just requires an "interview," not an appointment.
Personally, I would be insulted if I was brought in for an "interview" with an owner that has no intention of hiring me.
And BMEs - the group towards which this rule is directed - incudes all ethnic minorities, not just 'black guys'.
Yeah, I was just mentioning it since it is mostly mentioned with regards to black people.
 

daviejones

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If the owners are already prejudice against black people then I don't see how the interview will change their mind. Owners who don't reject applicants just because they are black would interview the person regardless of the rule. For others its just a forced rule with a loop hole, just requires an "interview," not an appointment.
Personally, I would be insulted if I was brought in for an "interview" with an owner that has no intention of hiring me.

Yeah, I was just mentioning it since it is mostly mentioned with regards to black people.
I guess the hope is that when owners who would otherwise have just rejected BME applicants straight off the bat would see that they do actually have something to offer and that they would have been wrong to discount them. Some owners will be old and maybe grew up in a time when the general consensus about these things will be different, so some of them are bound to have a slight wariness, for want of a better word, of people from ethnic minorities - but at the same time they are owners, they should be doing what's best for the club and maybe if they sit face to face with someone they would have otherwise discounted they'd see that this person can move the club forward more than other applicants can.
 

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How many black ex players want to be managers?

Have most been put off by the perceived lack of chances they might get...
 

Cheese & Biscuits

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As an aside to this, would be genuinely interested in seeing a study in to what footballers plan to do after retiring and what they actually do, plotting their post-playing career trajectories.

I wonder if many have plans to go in to management at all. Most, I would assume, go in to one of the myriad of coaching roles but some just fall off the face of the earth. It'd be interesting to see the expectation v the reality for all players.
 

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Its the most stupid idea I've ever heard of, so you have to interview someone because their black? they automatically have a chance of a job? What does the colour of their skin have to do with being a good manager.... Kicking racism out of football? well this is one step backwards.
 

WH_Stag

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Exactly. Explains why there's a large proportion of non-white managers.

Its just such a non issue, oh theres not many black managers... so what? And when people like Chris Ramsey come out and say they probably wont get a job because their black, sorry but did it not occur to him that his record as a manager is terrible and I'm surprised they gave him a three year contract.

If you want equality in the world, and in football you have to accept that skin colour has nothing to do with it. Its a job and you're either good enough or you're not no matter what race you are
 

HertsWolf

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For manager selection, they should discriminate against people who are incapable of learning the difference between 'their', 'there' and 'they're'.
 

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