Top 5 grounds and top 5 worst in League 2

[Greenacres]

Dale Vince is not a man of the people and will never be liked as much as Trevor Horsley was. He understood football fans and was one of us, Dale and his entourage running the club are clueless on that front.

One thing I really think Dale does not understand is how his reputation and everything he stands for could be completely undermined if the relationship between him and the fans turns toxic...I sincerely hope this doesn't happen as when it does at a club it is usually an indication that something, or lots of things, are going really badly wrong...there have been times when some of the more vociferous fans, largely those in the South Stand, have voiced their displeasure with Dale and sadly we went through a phase when many voted with their feet but other than that we have made his (Dale's) life pretty easy as Chairman/Owner of "our" club.

That is the other thing, we as fans regard our club as being our intellectual property, regardless of who the owner, manager or players are. For any club to achieve success it is beneficial to have harmony between all of those elements, at present I think the fans, players and team manager are in as good a place with respect and admiration for each other as at any time I can remember...long may that continue. It would be nice to add Dale to that trio for a perfect quartet but sadly I can't see that happening any time soon.

 

[Essex2Wessex]

The impression I have is that the club management concentrate rather less on maintaining good relations with fans who actually attend matches and who are the lifeblood of the place (not the full story, as the ambassador and community schemes show, and as the CEO, at least, while also "not a football man" is pretty approachable), and more with building up online (and streaming, and merchandise-buying) support worldwide, with people who are attracted to the club primarily for it's eco stance, and who have often never set foot within hundreds of miles of Nailsworth....(but who get a heroes welcome from the management if they do make their one and only trip, if they play their cards right)

It's an interesting, and as far as I know, unique approach (for a club of this size to have "international fan clubs", say) , "another way" indeed, and I suppose there is an argument that if we ever do attain Dale's stated goal of making the Championship, given that we are never going to attract the crowds of a big city (or even small town) club, might well make sound business sense, along with the other unique aspects of the way the club is run and its image and the way they are used to attract sponsorship based on the eco/progressive claims and actions of the club. Which is not to say it is a comfortable approach to anyone else...

At the moment I think things are indeed pretty good at the club: the combination of playing entertaining football, doing well in the league and having a new and popular manager who is unlike his predecessor not surly, all contribute to this. But it could obviously easily go wrong, and the move to a new stadium (while more or less unavoidable) is an obvious point of tension. I've not heard any "Fuck Eco Park" or "Fuck M5 FC" chants so far this season, but it will take skilled and careful management - and more understanding of the fans who come week-to-week than is usually shown - to ensure the new place doesn't become a white elephant. I'd like to think DV is familiar with the stories of, say, Rushden and Diamonds, Darlington or Gretna, but I wonder....

 

[The Jovial Forester]

Way back in DV's earlier days always wondered why we had all the green promotion (which in many ways is right up my street in content if not their style) but he'd never even stuck a billboard on the Ecotricty headquarters with the next fixture or some other simple promotion in town. Definitely strikes me as not thinking about it as a football club in the way an owner normally does and disregard for home and away fans is part of that. Plus years of sticking by his minority views probably created a habit of not giving too much of a fuck what naysayers think.

 

[Greenacres]

I agree with the above comment about the CEO being approachable, I was introduced to him by Pitchfork (this will make sense to our fans as he is a well known and popular figure in the club, not least for setting up and running the ambassador scheme, a really good bloke) in the Gym Bar...he (the CEO) asked me what I thought of the bar and I said it was really good, I enjoyed using it before games, but jokingly said that it could be improved massively if patches of red paint on the steelwork could be painted over...although this was said as a joke they had been painted over by the next home game, so he definitely listens. The CEO also answers questions on the club forum, which is a pretty decent thing to do and reflects a willingness to engage with us, the fans.

Throughout the pandemic, even in recent weeks, the club has announced new sponsorship deals with a range of companies and extensions of those already in place. Clearly I haven't a clue how much the club benefits financially from these deals but they have all been from businesses keen to associate themselves with our club due to the green ethos, I guess the amounts might be fairly significant, and help move towards a point where the club is able to sustain itself financially. If nothing else Dale talks enthusiastically about sustainability and I expect there to come a time where he will state that we have achieved that, ie: he doesn't have to worry about sticking his hand in his own pocket to help fund the club.

 

[Greenacres]

Way back in DV's earlier days always wondered why we had all the green promotion (which in many ways is right up my street in content if not their style) but he'd never even stuck a billboard on the Ecotricty headquarters with the next fixture or some other simple promotion in town. Definitely strikes me as not thinking about it as a football club in the way an owner normally does and disregard for home and away fans is part of that. Plus years of sticking by his minority views probably created a habit of not giving too much of a fuck what naysayers think.

The last couple of games have seen the annual free shirts for kids event, which seems like a nice gesture from the club, but is probably another clever advertising ploy by Dale. Just think how many kids in our area have a Rovers shirt, after several years of the scheme running, it must be hundreds and hundreds. Hopefully it gets the recipients interested in our club, that they will pester their parents to be brought to games and turn into fans who will follow us forever.

The other side, which Dale might have considered, is that they have become a mobile advertising hoarding with his company name splashed across them...let's face it if you are wearing a Rovers shirt you will stand out from some distance away. Our previous manager said that he looked out of his office one day at the kids playing football in the Primary School playground, at least half of them were wearing a Rovers shirt, I bet that situation is replicated across the Stroud area.

 

[Chris FGR]

Things like the ambassador’s scheme, away travel and even a number of the community initiatives are not run by DV or most of the board, they are organised by the supporters club, and enthusiastic long term fans with influence such as Pitchfork, Paula as well as volunteers etc and are largely funded by sc membership/donations and sponsorship.

There is no way the ambassador’s scheme would even have been a thing if the board had been left to their own devices.

 

[Ninety Per Cent]

Port Vale, Orient, Carlisle, Hartlepool, Walsall. All in decent enough state, no hassle from Stewards/Staff. Vale top as it's a big ground for this level and a couple of minutes walk into Burslem centre where there's some good pubs.

Newport the worst, gluepot pitch, golf stand like away section and Stewards looking for trouble.

 

[Scunny Pacifist]

Is Dale Vince a pothead? Tell him to get a wash.

 

[denzel ecfc]

Port Vale, Orient, Carlisle, Hartlepool, Walsall. All in decent enough state, no hassle from Stewards/Staff. Vale top as it's a big ground for this level and a couple of minutes walk into Burslem centre where there's some good pubs.

Newport the worst, gluepot pitch, golf stand like away section and Stewards looking for trouble.

Walsall. Walsall??????

 

[Deepcut Cobbler]

To be honest, I've never had a problem with any stewards at any of the away grounds that I have been to. In fact, if you talk to them, in a lot of cases they are just as frustrated at some of the local rules that they are employed to enforce.
Some of our support have encountered problems, but it's normally because they haven't complied with the rules and regulations applicable to that particular venue.

 

[Scunny Pacifist]

I have had a few problems with stewards at Bradford and Stevenage. Me and the bairn were thrown out and our nose candy was confiscated. At Colchester the stewards were taking it with us. Still no sleep since Thursday and I am at work in half hour

 

[Trapdoor]

If nothing else Dale talks enthusiastically about sustainability and I expect there to come a time where he will state that we have achieved that, ie: he doesn't have to worry about sticking his hand in his own pocket to help fund the club.

Do you know how many clubs in the league have not made a net loss in the past 10 years? (i.e. the definition of being run sustainably.)

The answer is zero. *

Every single club in the league has made a loss year after year. Some like Salford have lost multiple millions every year. FGR would need minimum crowds of around 8k per week just to cover their current wage budget. Once you take into account wage inflation and the progressively increasing costs of operations, the idea that the club will ever be run sustainably is laughable.

(* Exeter have shown net profit over that period due to player sale windfalls, but without the player sales would be running at a 700k loss over the 10 year period. This should not be considered "sustainable" because player sales are an unreliable variable income.)

 

[shoddycollins]

Do you know how many clubs in the league have not made a net loss in the past 10 years? (i.e. the definition of being run sustainably.)

The answer is zero. *

Every single club in the league has made a loss year after year. Some like Salford have lost multiple millions every year. FGR would need minimum crowds of around 8k per week just to cover their current wage budget. Once you take into account wage inflation and the progressively increasing costs of operations, the idea that the club will ever be run sustainably is laughable.

(* Exeter have shown net profit over that period due to player sale windfalls, but without the player sales would be running at a 700k loss over the 10 year period. This should not be considered "sustainable" because player sales are an unreliable variable income.)

Good job Kenny end doesn't frequent this forum any more

 

[Devon_Lad]

Yer up to your armpits in debt. Nobody has zero debt.

Are you sure about that? Lol

 

[Devon_Lad]

Do you know how many clubs in the league have not made a net loss in the past 10 years? (i.e. the definition of being run sustainably.)

The answer is zero. *

Every single club in the league has made a loss year after year. Some like Salford have lost multiple millions every year. FGR would need minimum crowds of around 8k per week just to cover their current wage budget. Once you take into account wage inflation and the progressively increasing costs of operations, the idea that the club will ever be run sustainably is laughable.

(* Exeter have shown net profit over that period due to player sale windfalls, but without the player sales would be running at a 700k loss over the 10 year period. This should not be considered "sustainable" because player sales are an unreliable variable income.)

Suggesting player sales are unreliable so shouldn't count is laughable. It's what we've invested in and we are now seeing the return on that investment. The reason we've bought players and offer certain wages is because of said player sales.

 

[Trapdoor]

Suggesting player sales are unreliable so shouldn't count is laughable. It's what we've invested in and we are now seeing the return on that investment. The reason we've bought players and offer certain wages is because of said player sales.

Arguably, however it wasnt that long ago that we were going to PFA for loans to cover wages due to cashflow issues. 2015 wasn't it?

 

[saddler78]

From the grounds I’ve been to in League 2:-

BEST
1) Exeter - been twice, once with Salop and the other as a neutral. Close to the train station, city centre & pubs. What’s not to like? Away end was a shambles at the time but I’ve also stood on the kop which had impressive views and a good atmosphere.
2) Bradford - Been to Bradford 6 times and never seen us lose there (might have something to do with why I love going so much). Big stadium, good fanbase, decent pubs to drink in if you venture away from the stadium.
3) Bristol Rovers - Okay the ground is a dump! But I base my away days on the whole day out not just 90 minutes inside the stadium. Plenty of boozers not far from the train station and once you get a taxi to the stadium, the Wellington(?) was a decent boozer next to the stadium. Love Bristol and as I’ve got a lot of mates from Taunton, we always do this for a weekender. Shame they went down.
4) Tranmere - Easy to get to on the train from Salop and is a fairly cheap journey at that. We always stop off at Chester for drinks before getting back on the train to Birkenhead. Decent enough away end and we tend to take decent numbers so the atmosphere is decent. Another ground I’ve never seen us lose at!
5) Rochdale - Not the best away day but definitely not the worst. What I like about Rochdale is that it’s dirt cheap to drink in. Bit far from the train station which is a negative but the away end is decent to create an atmosphere in. Again, we take decent numbers to Rochdale but unfortunately I’ve never seen us win at Spotland.

WORST
1) Walsall - Just an absolute dive isn’t it. Seen a lot of videos about Kabul recently in the news and Walsall doesn’t look much better! Stadium is in a shit location and even when we sell out the away end, it’s hard to create an atmosphere there. Always trouble when we have to go to the biscuit tin, last time I went on the train the windows got put through, lovely bunch. Only positive is the train platform is right next to the stadium.
2) Port Vale - Again there’s always trouble whenever we go there. Tried to get a pint in Burslem town centre last time I went but told by the locals to leave as I wasn’t welcome in my Shrewsbury shirt, again, lovely bunch. Not welcome in pubs so had to sample the overpriced warm piss they call Carlsberg in the stadium. My uncle is a Vale fan though, so have been with him a fair few times in the home end. Not too bad when you’re allowed in the pubs tbf.
3) Scunthorpe - Just utter shite. Nowhere to drink but an overpriced Harvester next to the ground. No atmosphere, poor home support, just not an enjoyable day out even if we do win.
4) Stevenage - Again we ended up drinking on the outskirts of Stevenage in this small village. It wasn’t a bad place, quite a posh village really, just very overpriced and it didn’t feel like a proper away day. They stadium itself was poor and their stewards were dicks to our fans telling them to sit down as the were impeding other supporters views despite being on the back row. No common sense there.
5) Northampton - Very similar to Scunthorpe, just wank. Nowhere to drink and the atmosphere is poor. Only positive I’ve got of this place is that I’ve seen us win 7-2 there in our promotion season.

As for our stadium, it was horrendous when we first moved from the Gay Meadow but it’s slightly better now that we’ve got safe standing . Much, MUCH better atmosphere. If you’re like me and don’t base your away day on just 90 minutes but the whole day out/weekend then I’d put us as one of the best in the country (but only if you don’t come via supporters coach). The town centre is a 20 minute walk away and has a silly amount of pubs, bars and clubs. One of the nicest towns in the UK aswell is Shrewsbury.

Wouldnt worry about filling it thats as rare as rocking horse shit mate lol

 

[Roger Stone]

Do you know how many clubs in the league have not made a net loss in the past 10 years? (i.e. the definition of being run sustainably.)

The answer is zero. *

Every single club in the league has made a loss year after year. Some like Salford have lost multiple millions every year. FGR would need minimum crowds of around 8k per week just to cover their current wage budget. Once you take into account wage inflation and the progressively increasing costs of operations, the idea that the club will ever be run sustainably is laughable.

(* Exeter have shown net profit over that period due to player sale windfalls, but without the player sales would be running at a 700k loss over the 10 year period. This should not be considered "sustainable" because player sales are an unreliable variable income.)

Unsure of our position over the past 10 years, but the club accounts since fans takeover are:

15/16: £339,522 profit
16/17: £351,456 loss
17/18: £82,680 profit
18/19: £967,208 profit
19/20: £307,875 profit

Profits made have been due to cup runs / TV money and player sales. Without these I understand that we would be looking at £300-350k loss per season. Accounts not released for 20/21 but hearing that a small profit will be made.

 

[Greenacres]

FGR would need minimum crowds of around 8k per week just to cover their current wage budget. Once you take into account wage inflation and the progressively increasing costs of operations, the idea that the club will ever be run sustainably is laughable.

Are you sure about that...ie: can you provide proof...someone posted a link to a website last season that showed the wages of each team in the Division and ours was nowhere near as high as people might think. We had two players who were on a really decent wage, from memory they were Winchester and Collins who have both now left, the remainder were hardly living the high life.

 

[Trapdoor]

So since Dale Vince took over FGR in 2010 the club have lost 12.7 million quid.

This includes the 800k profit made in the 19/20 season from windfalls like TV rights etc.

Average spend in 19/20 was 1935 quid per week. Hard to know how that has changed this year but budgets don't typically change that much because of multi year contacts. With a very modest 26 players that works out at £2.6 million a year in basic wages (not counting additional costs.) To cover that you need 65k in gate revenue per game. That is easily covered with about 3200 fans attending each game. The additional overheads and charges are considerable however, FGRs player wages are only 60% of their total reported costs.

So I was a bit high on my guess of 8000 people. Realistically based on last year's number you are looking at a break even point of around 4500 people per game (excluding inflation).

Edit:
I guess my point is you're 12.7 million down which won't improve as you go up to higher levels in the pyramid. Going to league one and above the numbers get even more extreme.

 

[Devon_Lad]

Arguably, however it wasnt that long ago that we were going to PFA for loans to cover wages due to cashflow issues. 2015 wasn't it?

In 2015 we hadn't invested anywhere near what we have now on the academy, we now have plenty of steady gems coming through. Josh Key, Sonny Cox etc and we are also getting a steady stream of money from Chelsea and Brentford with money potential money coming from Matt Grimes soon. It is becoming more frequent and definitely sustainable when we add on these sell on clauses.

 

[The Jovial Forester]

View attachment 15381
So since Dale Vince took over FGR in 2010 the club have lost 12.7 million quid.

View attachment 15382
This includes the 800k profit made in the 19/20 season from windfalls like TV rights etc.

View attachment 15383
Average spend in 19/20 was 1935 quid per week. Hard to know how that has changed this year but budgets don't typically change that much because of multi year contacts. With a very modest 26 players that works out at £2.6 million a year in basic wages (not counting additional costs.) To cover that you need 65k in gate revenue per game. That is easily covered with about 3200 fans attending each game. The additional overheads and charges are considerable however, FGRs player wages are only 60% of their total reported costs.

So I was a bit high on my guess of 8000 people. Realistically based on last year's number you are looking at a break even point of around 4500 people per game (excluding inflation).

Edit:
I guess my point is you're 12.7 million down which won't improve as you go up to higher levels in the pyramid. Going to league one and above the numbers get even more extreme.

From what I understand of it, we are actually breaking even or turning a profit on the playing side, the massive debts come from the profligate conference years and what Dale has spent on the stadiums old and forthcoming, his position was always sponsorship and TV money would cover running costs if we stay a league side and presumably he'll write off what he's chucked into the salad bowl. How credible that line is I don't know but he seems to submit reasonably honest accounts and not sure why he'd lie about it, though could come up with possible reasons.

 

[Scunny Pacifist]

Sam Russell
Eddie Oshodi
Wayne Hatswell
Dale Bennett
Joe Mills
Sam Wedgbury
Elliott Frear
Marcus Kelly
Ryan Zico Black
Mark Beesley
Daniel Carey Bertram

CRAP!

 

[Chris FGR]

Why is Ryan Zico Black in that list?

Apart from him some FGR greats there so wash your mouth out.

 

[Scunny Pacifist]

Why is Ryan Zico Black in that list?

Apart from him some FGR greats there so wash your mouth out.
[/QUOTE

Replace him with Jennison Myrie Williams then. If they are your best players then you must have had some crap.

 

[Railway Blue]

Sam Russell
Eddie Oshodi
Wayne Hatswell
Dale Bennett
Joe Mills
Sam Wedgbury
Elliott Frear
Marcus Kelly
Ryan Zico Black
Mark Beesley
Daniel Carey Bertram

CRAP!

Two of those players :~ Wayne Hatswell and Mark Beesley were great for us, but it was nearly 20 years ago.

 

[Scunny Pacifist]

Wayne Brown
Matty Woods
Spencer Whelan
Phil Bolland
James Jennings
Stewart Drummond
Neil Richardson
Jonathan Cross
Stuart Rimmer
Daryl Clare
Cortez Belle

Crap!

 

[Chris FGR]

Replace him with Jennison Myrie Williams then. If they are your best players then you must have had some crap.

Nope not him either. Maybe you were thinking of Keanu Marsh-Brown? Impressive effort on the other 10 tbf, but not sure why you would think they were crap. All of them were great for us.

And yes, we have indeed have had some crap. Certainly not those lads though.

 

[Scunny Pacifist]

Nope not him either. Maybe you were thinking of Keanu Marsh-Brown? Impressive effort on the other 10 tbf, but not sure why you would think they were crap. All of them were great for us.

And yes, we have indeed have had some crap. Certainly not those lads though.

I was thinking of Clovis Kamdjo

 

[Chris FGR]

Oh he’s magic, you know
you’ll never beat K-amdjo

Top lad. Once scored a cracking bicycle kick v Southport. Could a crap player do this?