UEFA Women's Euro 2017

[mistermagic]

This tournament did see Germany and Sweden get knocked out in the quarters and England still made it to a semi. Just goes to show how competitive women's football is getting.

 

[Super_horns]

Racism row seems to be rumbling on.

Cannot be good for the positive image of the ladies game.

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/foot...sampson/ar-AAsfkeB?li=AAmiR2Z&ocid=spartanntp

 

[DarkSithLord]

Seems Sampson has gone...

Katie Gornall‏ @KatiegBBC 3m3 minutes ago
BREAKING: The BBC understands that Mark Sampson is set to leave his role as England Women’s manager.

 

[Humongous Fungus]

Shame, the girls were well behind him you could see that in their celebrations. Hopefully doesn't ruin his career.

 

[GodsGift]

Hopefully it does, he's a racist prick. FA are an absolute disgrace as well, but I guess we all already knew that.

 

[Leewilson]

Hopefully it does, he's a racist prick. FA are an absolute disgrace as well, but I guess we all already knew that.

Is he though? He's not been found guilty yet. If he had, of course remove him immediately. But I hate it before people are pushed during an investigation. What if he's found innocent?

(For the record, I think he's guilty but the handling of everything has been dire.)

 

[Abertawe]

Inappropriate relationship with a player from his time at Bristol academy apparently.

 

[GodsGift]

Is he though? He's not been found guilty yet. If he had, of course remove him immediately. But I hate it before people are pushed during an investigation. What if he's found innocent?

(For the record, I think he's guilty but the handling of everything has been dire.)

I believe Aluko and the two other players who have backed up her evidence, yes. The only reason he's not been found guilty is because the FA are incompetent and their investigation was a total sham. The government seriously need to overhaul the FA, they're failing the game on so many levels.

I felt extremely uncomfortable watching the BBC's coverage of the England game last night. The likes of Gabby Logan, Jacqui Oatley and Claire Balding, who have done so much to promote the women's game, have been completely silent since this story first broke. Now the game is finally getting the exposure it deserves the people involved have to accept the scrutiny that comes with it.

 

[#Beebot]

I don't get why they would cover for Sampson though? They dealt pretty quickly with Hoddle and Allardyce, both of whom are bigger names than Sampson, why protect him? And why then sack him based on something that happened before he got the job?

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[#Beebot]

Should add that I believed Aluko right from the off, I just don't understand why the FA didn't act swiftly when they've had no problem doing so before.

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[GodsGift]

Because there's less scrutiny of the women's game, so they thought they could get away with it? Because he's done a good job, getting England to two consecutive semi finals? Aluko's initial complaint was made before the Euro's I think, so they probably wanted to sweep it under the carpet and concentrate on the tournament.

Whatever the reason, it's down to the FA's incompetence.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Hopefully it does, he's a racist prick. [...]

Based on what? Even the alleged comments weren't overtly racist.

 

[GodsGift]

Based on what? Even the alleged comments weren't overtly racist.

I'm not going down this route with you EG, other than saying I consider his comments to be racist. Besides, if you or me said them in our place of work, you'd expect to be sacked right?

And what does that picture prove? The team want to show they're together to win a game of football. This issue goes a bit wider than that. There's another picture which shows Ellen White and Karen Carney, two senior players who will know Aluko well, looking fairly uncomfortable anyway...

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

I'm not going down this route with you EG, other than saying I consider his comments to be racist. Besides, if you or me said them in our place of work, you'd expect to be sacked right?

And what does that picture prove? The team want to show they're together to win a game of football. This issue goes a bit wider than that. There's another picture which shows Ellen White and Karen Carney, two senior players who will know Aluko well, looking fairly uncomfortable anyway...

The point of contention was that he's a "racist prick" based on those comments. I don't think either suggest that's true, and I think the fact that a black player took it upon herself (among others) to show this kind of solidarity with him is probably significant. They're certainly in a better position to know whether he's a "racist prick" or not than we are.

 

[Abertawe]

The FA said it's sod all to do with Aluko.

 

[GodsGift]

The FA said it's sod all to do with Aluko.

And you believe them? Do you think they would have sacked him on these new allegations alone without all the media storm that has followed the Aluko affair?

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

They're not even new allegations. They're allegations they've had for ages but apparently the new administration has 'only recently been made aware of them'. Strangely though, they've cleared him to work in women's football after leaving the FA...

 

[Abertawe]

And you believe them? Do you think they would have sacked him on these new allegations alone without all the media storm that has followed the Aluko affair?

Have you read the "new" accusations?

 

[GodsGift]

Have you read the "new" accusations?

Yes. Serious allegations but he wasn't considered to be a risk...

 

[GodsGift]

Good summary here from The Guardian's Daniel Taylor, who has done some brilliant reporting over this whole Sampson affair.

According to Martin Glenn, the Football Association chief executive who broke the news, Mark Sampson was “calm but angry” as he found out from a fourth‑floor office at Wembley that his luck had finally run out.

The summons had come the night before. Sampson arrived around midday and the formalities did not last too long once he realised that a scandal had caught up with him – just not the scandal, perhaps, that most people might have envisaged.

That does not make the other allegations swirling around the now-deposed England Women’s manager any less serious and the fact the FA has found another reason to move him out does not change the fact that a second crisis is running concurrently – a story featuring racism allegations, hush money and yet more evidence of systematic failure. It is one that needs a proper ending rather than any more of the FA’s attempted spin, deflection and pulling down of shutters.

The Eni Aluko affair, a story this newspaper has been driving for several weeks, is already threatening to go to the top of the FA now that a third investigation is under way and the culture, media and sport select committee is summoning the relevant people to explain the gaping holes in the previous two inquiries.

If, that is, it can still be called the Eni Aluko affair when a second player, Drew Spence, will meet the barrister Katharine Newton on Friday for an interview that should have taken place the best part of a year ago. As if Sampson does not have enough on his plate, Spence intends to corroborate Aluko’s version of events by saying she, too, was the recipient of an allegedly racial remark.

Ultimately, though, Sampson has gone for something entirely different, involving a safeguarding investigation that went for on for the best part of a year, a breakdown in communications within the FA structure and, it appears, some particularly dubious behaviour from his time at Bristol Academy where there are first-hand reports that some of the club’s trips were more like a coming together of stag- and hen-dos.

No doubt more will come out in time but it is not going to be pretty when it involves a football manager, a number of backroom staff, a women’s team and a culture where, according to reliable evidence, some of the more sensible players became increasingly alarmed about what was deemed acceptable.

Stories about Bristol Academy have been floating around for some time and a lot of them now appear to be true. For now, we will probably have to join the dots. “No law was broken but we felt that, during his time at Bristol, Mark had overstepped the professional boundaries between player and coach,” Glenn said.

There will be some, undoubtedly, who find this all a bit convenient. Here we have the FA, in the midst of what could be an appalling race controversy, suddenly finding an entirely separate reason to get rid of the alleged offender for something that happened in his previous employment.

Whatever Sampson has done to warrant the sack, the men in power decided it could wait a few days
Glenn was at pains to absolve himself of any responsibility and also said the same about Greg Clarke, the chairman. Dan Ashworth, the technical director, was the person who appointed Sampson, championed him and brought him through the system. Surely he could have stopped this? “No,” Glenn again insisted. And it was staggering how it panned out – all of the FA’s top three executives were, apparently, not to blame one bit.

The fault, according to Glenn, lay further down the organisation and with a number of other people who just happen not to work for the FA any more. “Mark joined the FA at the end of 2013. A couple of months into his employment, the FA received anonymous allegations about his conduct at Bristol Academy. The FA safeguarding system clicked into gear and those safeguarding officers spent quite a bit of time, almost a year, investigating a range of issues that had been raised. They presented that to a safeguarding review panel in early 2015 and in March 2015 the panel reached a decision that, if he had some training and mentoring, he wasn’t a safeguarding risk.

“The incidents being investigated were – I’m not going to give any more detail than this – inappropriate behaviour and a crossing of the boundary between coach and players. There is no evidence that has come to our eyes about anything illegal and we don’t want idiots going round his house with torches. But he had clearly stepped over the line and admitted as much.

“The reason we have parted company with him was that, while the safeguarding team did their job on their specific narrow front, nobody else within the FA was alerted that what he had done was not something you would be comfortable with for an FA employee. In his [Sampson’s] eyes, he felt he had been cleared of the issue. And he had been from a safeguarding perspective. Our problem was the grown-ups in the organisation hadn’t seen the report and the full detail to make the point about employability.”

In other statements Glenn appeared to hold a previous regime responsible, a time when Greg Dyke, Adrian Bevington, Sir Trevor Brooking and Alex Horne were running the organisation. Yet the bottom line here is that the FA has been employing an England manager since 2013 and in the past two and half years the organisation had been sitting on a report that has now persuaded the people at the top of the organisation the relevant person has to go. Whatever checks and references Ashworth pulled together, they were not enough. And the worst thing is that the report has been gathering dust within the FA’s offices since March 2015 – and probably still would be had it not been for Aluko’s interview with the Guardian leading to an anonymous tip-off.

Why, also, did the FA decide to wait until Sampson had taken charge of the team’s 6-0 win against Russia on Tuesday before letting him know his position was “untenable”. Glenn and all the other “grown-ups within the organisation” – the kind of phrase, unfortunately, that tells you a lot about the FA – had been given the relevant information last Wednesday. Yet they were not so shocked that they decided to do anything about it straight away. Whatever Sampson has done to warrant the sack, the men in power decided it could wait a few days.

The sports minister, Tracey Crouch, was being kind when she described it as a “mess” but, if nothing else, perhaps it might now be easier for the relevant players from the China Cup in 2015 to give evidence about the race allegations now Sampson has gone.

Spence’s allegation, to recap, is that Sampson asked her, a mixed-race player on her first England call-up, how many times she had been arrested. Three other players – Jill Scott, Izzy Christiansen and Jo Potter – were in the room at the same time and at least two of them, according to the Guardian’s information, can supply crucial evidence. Rightly or wrongly, it should be an easier process now the players in question don’t have to go against their England manager.

First, though, they have to be asked and that really is one of the more bewildering and depressing parts of this story. Even now, the FA is steadfastly refusing to answer a simple question of whether the new investigation will involve Scott, Christiansen and Potter.

Indeed, the FA is not even admitting it is a new investigation, as if it means losing even more face when the Professional Footballers’ Association has already described inquiry No1 as “not a genuine search for the truth” and “a sham which was not designed to establish the truth but intended to protect Mark Sampson”. Inquiry No2 – Newton’s first attempt – was called a “farce” by Aluko and has led to calls from Kick it Out and the PFA for the process to start again, with a new barrister in place.

Newton began her inquiry on 15 December last year and when she interviewed Sampson he denied all the allegations, and continues to do so. The inquiry finished on 2 March and Sampson was completely exonerated, in keeping with the FA’s internal review, even though Newton said she did not dispute “the player in question [Spence] was upset about something she thought had been said”.

When this newspaper started asking questions about why Spence had never been interviewed, the most staggering part, perhaps, is that the FA tried to make a genuine case that it did not know her identity and that Aluko should take the blame for that one, having “refused” to pass on who she meant. Except, of course, that was another half-truth, at best.

Aluko’s evidence had told them it was a mixed-raced player, raised in south London, who played for Chelsea and was on her first camp. More than that, Newton had watched a video of the meeting where the comment allegedly took place. Spence, for the thousandth time, was the only mixed-race player in the room.

Aluko and Spence both deserve the opportunity for a proper investigation but, in the meantime, how do those players feel who ran to Sampson in a choreographed goal celebration for the first goal against Russia on Tuesday and did not appear to spare a second thought about how their former team-mates – not to mention Lianne Sanderson and Anita Asante – might feel in those moments?

Aluko alleges Sampson told her to be careful her Nigerian relatives did not bring the Ebola virus to Wembley and her 11-year 102-cap England career was effectively ended – a coincidence, the FA says – within two weeks of voicing her initial concerns. Yet it turns out that Sampson was the one prone to “unlioness behaviour”.

 

[Deepcut Cobbler]

I'm not going down this route with you EG, other than saying I consider his comments to be racist. Besides, if you or me said them in our place of work, you'd expect to be sacked right?

And what does that picture prove? The team want to show they're together to win a game of football. This issue goes a bit wider than that. There's another picture which shows Ellen White and Karen Carney, two senior players who will know Aluko well, looking fairly uncomfortable anyway...

Hopefully you will not be part of my jury if ever I end up in court.

 

[Cornish Piskie]

From the perspective of a female fan, for me the most saddening thing about this whole business is that for a while, the women's game seemed to be an oasis of footballing integrity in the often squalid, seedy, cheating, money obsessed world of Association football.

Female fans could point to a game where there was a clean spirit.... "Play the game".... No diving, no cheating, players playing because they loved football. To watch women's football felt like seeing a true sporting contest, played to the rules with respect for opponents and officials alike. There was an air of innocence, almost naivete about it all.

Racism didn't happen. Everybody was the same, black or white. Homophobia didn't exist. We've long known about lesbian players on the LGBT scene. and sexism didn't seem to touch women's football. There was a safeguarding system in place and we trusted it.

But with the allegations of misconduct by Mark Sampson not only with the England team, but also with the Bristol Academy, and the growing awareness that his (still only "alleged", awaiting proof beyond a reasonable doubt) comments were not confined to a single incident, a lot of the illusion has been wiped away.

It seems the women's game is just as riddled with all the unsavoury "ism's" as the men's game and that truly hurts.

What else has gone on that hasn't come to light yet..? Perhaps these really are isolated incidents. Perhaps they're not. We just don't know. All we know now is that women's football too, has descended into the gutter.

When Hope Powell was sacked, it was alleged that she had "lost the dressing room" and this was cited as part of the reason why she had to go. Word spread around the same LGBT network that some of the England players didn't like being managed by a lesbian. Others rumoured that she fell out of favour because she "ran a tight ship" and kept the players on a short leash when away from home, especially at tournaments. And some of the players didn't like it. They wanted to party and resented a strong hand at the helm.

I didn't want to believe such things. Now there can be no denying such rumours have credibility.

I could say "Damn you to hell, Mark Sampson" but if he really is guilty of wrongdoing, I'm not so sure now that he will have been the only one.

It's a terrible thing to have your illusions shattered.

 

[#Beebot]

From the perspective of a female fan, for me the most saddening thing about this whole business is that for a while, the women's game seemed to be an oasis of footballing integrity in the often squalid, seedy, cheating, money obsessed world of Association football.

Female fans could point to a game where there was a clean spirit.... "Play the game".... No diving, no cheating, players playing because they loved football. To watch women's football felt like seeing a true sporting contest, played to the rules with respect for opponents and officials alike. There was an air of innocence, almost naivete about it all.

Racism didn't happen. Everybody was the same, black or white. Homophobia didn't exist. We've long known about lesbian players on the LGBT scene. and sexism didn't seem to touch women's football. There was a safeguarding system in place and we trusted it.

But with the allegations of misconduct by Mark Sampson not only with the England team, but also with the Bristol Academy, and the growing awareness that his (still only "alleged", awaiting proof beyond a reasonable doubt) comments were not confined to a single incident, a lot of the illusion has been wiped away.

It seems the women's game is just as riddled with all the unsavoury "ism's" as the men's game and that truly hurts.

What else has gone on that hasn't come to light yet..? Perhaps these really are isolated incidents. Perhaps they're not. We just don't know. All we know now is that women's football too, has descended into the gutter.

When Hope Powell was sacked, it was alleged that she had "lost the dressing room" and this was cited as part of the reason why she had to go. Word spread around the same LGBT network that some of the England players didn't like being managed by a lesbian. Others rumoured that she fell out of favour because she "ran a tight ship" and kept the players on a short leash when away from home, especially at tournaments. And some of the players didn't like it. They wanted to party and resented a strong hand at the helm.

I didn't want to believe such things. Now there can be no denying such rumours have credibility.

I could say "Damn you to hell, Mark Sampson" but if he really is guilty of wrongdoing, I'm not so sure now that he will have been the only one.

It's a terrible thing to have your illusions shattered.

Good post.

There's no doubt the reason why Sampson has held onto his job for the last few months is because most players in the squad were willing to shaft Aluko in exchange for comfortably keeping their own places in the squad.

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[Ebeneezer Goode]

Good post.

There's no doubt the reason why Sampson has held onto his job for the last few months is because most players in the squad were willing to shaft Aluko in exchange for comfortably keeping their own places in the squad.

I would say there is a lot of doubt about that.

 

[#Beebot]

I would say there is a lot of doubt about that.

Do you think Aluko just made all this stuff up?

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[Ebeneezer Goode]

Do you think Aluko just made all this stuff up?

I think given that Sampson admitted to the insensitive comments he made straight away (cleared of wrongdoing twice I believe) and the team rallied around him instead of Aluko, it's just as plausible that she was a bad seed that was seeking revenge for being dropped. I know people will say that the players just want to keep their places, but if you think your boss is a racist bully and want to keep him on side then you keep your mouth shut, you don't run half way across the pitch to get a big group hug going and then tell the media that you were making a statement.

 

[Cornish Piskie]

I think given that Sampson admitted to the insensitive comments he made straight away (cleared of wrongdoing twice I believe) and the team rallied around him instead of Aluko, it's just as plausible that she was a bad seed that was seeking revenge for being dropped. I know people will say that the players just want to keep their places, but if you think your boss is a racist bully and want to keep him on side then you keep your mouth shut, you don't run half way across the pitch to get a big group hug going and then tell the media that you were making a statement.

Aluko made the allegations before she was dropped, Goody.

It was after she made allegations against Sampson that her 11 year, 102 cap career abruptly ended.

Sampson has been sacked and is clearly hurt by that. The team will undoubtedly be affected. All this is bound to be disruptive to a team that was performing well and was clearly a well organised, close knit unit.

A new manager is going to have to come in and pick up the pieces, get the players - who are likely to feel some form of loyalty to their lost leader - onside, and attempt to keep the world cup qualifying campaign on course.

It would be easy to point the finger at Eni Aluko and say she shouldn't have said anything, but that's not right. If (and it is still "if") she was racially abused then she was right to report Sampson. The only criticism of her could possibly occur if the whole thing eventually proves that she fabricated the allegation.

And just to put my personal position quite clear on this, proof is equally necessary for both individuals. Finding Sampson not guilty would not necessarily prove that Aluko lied. It may mean that there is not enough evidence that Sampson said the things that are alleged, and he is given the benefit of the doubt.

Regardless of anything that is or isn't proven in the "He-Said-You-Said-No-I-Didn't-yes-You-Did" exchanges the real loser is women's football.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Aluko made the allegations before she was dropped, Goody.

It was after she made allegations against Sampson that her 11 year, 102 cap career abruptly ended.

Sampson has been sacked and is clearly hurt by that. The team will undoubtedly be affected. All this is bound to be disruptive to a team that was performing well and was clearly a well organised, close knit unit.

A new manager is going to have to come in and pick up the pieces, get the players - who are likely to feel some form of loyalty to their lost leader - onside, and attempt to keep the world cup qualifying campaign on course.

It would be easy to point the finger at Eni Aluko and say she shouldn't have said anything, but that's not right. If (and it is still "if") she was racially abused then she was right to report Sampson. The only criticism of her could possibly occur if the whole thing eventually proves that she fabricated the allegation.

And just to put my personal position quite clear on this, proof is equally necessary for both individuals. Finding Sampson not guilty would not necessarily prove that Aluko lied. It may mean that there is not enough evidence that Sampson said the things that are alleged, and he is given the benefit of the doubt.

Regardless of anything that is or isn't proven in the "He-Said-You-Said-No-I-Didn't-yes-You-Did" exchanges the real loser is women's football.

The thing is though, none of the alleged comments are overtly racist, you can fully believe Aluko in what she says he said without believing that Sampson was racially discriminating against anyone. The Ebola comment, for example, was clearly about the geographical location that her parents were coming from, not the fact that they were Black or Nigerian. The rest of her testimony amounts to speculation, so couldn't really be called a lie either.

 

[Cornish Piskie]

The thing is though, none of the alleged comments are overtly racist, you can fully believe Aluko in what she says he said without believing that Sampson was racially discriminating against anyone. The Ebola comment, for example, was clearly about the geographical location that her parents were coming from, not the fact that they were Black or Nigerian. The rest of her testimony amounts to speculation, so couldn't really be called a lie either.

You make good and valid arguments there and I can see your point of view entirely. Is what has been alleged enough to hang a man..? I don't think so, but in this world of sensitivities sometimes we fail to see things from the other person's angle and that makes finding a proportionate response all the more difficult.

A reasonable person would say all this could have been resolved quite simply by the two grown ups involved, with the help of their management figures, working it out, coming to an understanding and agreeing to learn from the experience and not to take it any further. I think everybody would have been happy about that.

But human sensitivities can be a potential powder keg and when one of the parties denies that anything happened at all and then (apparently) ups the ante by adversely affecting the career of the other, then the offended party feels they have to pursue their case as a just cause. That's when situations escalate and spiral out of proportion to the original offence.

Why do some people abuse others..? Does anybody deserve abuse.? And why does it happen? Is it because somebody is different?

Eni Aluko is different in that she's black and in a society where despite all attempts to oppose such prejudice race hate still exists. She's sensitive to comments which relate to or highlight that difference in any negative way, no matter how trivial they seem.

In the words of that wise old sage Kermit the Frog, It's not easy being green.

I'm not suggesting Sampson was being deliberately cruel to Aluko when he (allegedly) said what he said, but it's clear that she was offended and I can see where she's coming from. I've walked that mile in her shoes. No, I'm not black, but in my own situation I fall into the category of being "different" to the "norms" of society. I can fully understand why Eni Aluko is pursuing her case.

Let's just hope that when all this is done, everybody is a little wiser and people who are in positions of authority learn that such sensitivities aren't the product of some malicious form of political correctness, but are real and relevant to that person. Hopefully, a little understanding can go a long way and those who need to, learn to bite their tongue or think before they speak.

 

[mistermagic]

Is it wrong that I don't really care what Sampson says or thinks as long as he's doing a good job? He had England on a role and they had a real shot of winning the World Cup in France in 2 years. Now, the FA have sacked him and they have to find a new manager who will need time to settle.

This is all a shame.