2 Premier League players set to come as gay

[hbk4894]

according to tomorrow's daily mirror

 

[Stevencc]

The Mirror is newspaper of the year!?

 

[blade1889]

Heard this before and then it has not happened.

Very brave and massive credit to them if they do. Hope they get the praise they deserve.

 

[Nilsson]

Heard this before and then it has not happened.

Very brave and massive credit to them if they do. Hope they get the praise they deserve.

Don't think it could be considered 'brave' in this day and age. They'd receive overwhelming support and new status as a minor celebrity like that gay rugby player if they wanted. Anyone or any section of any fanbase who did abuse or criticise them would in turn get criticised themselves.

 

[blade1889]

Don't think it could be considered 'brave' in this day and age. They'd receive overwhelming support and new status as a minor celebrity like that gay rugby player if they wanted. Anyone or any section of any fanbase who did abuse or criticise them would in turn get criticised themselves.

If it isn't brave then why would they be the first to come out?

It isn't just fans but the sport in general that has a big homophobia problem whether it is intentional or not. Reading Clarke Carlisles recent-ish comments about homophobia in the changing rooms suggests to me that is still an issue.

And the extra status of being the first gay PL footballer is still a big weight on your shoulders whether people support you or not. You are still in an overwhelming minority of two.

 

[Nilsson]

If it isn't brave then why would they be the first to come out?

Most gay footballers probably just want to do their job and don't want their private lives splashed over the news, doesn't make them any less 'brave' than someone who does want to share their sexuality with the world in 2015.

 

[blade1889]

Most gay footballers probably just want to do their job and don't want their private lives splashed over the news, doesn't make them any less 'brave' than someone who does want to share their sexuality with the world in 2015.

There is a difference between someone being brave and an act being brave. The act of coming out in itself is brave. To do this in the public eye and be the first in your 'field' is very brave with the added pressure and public scrutiny that comes with it. That is not to say 'closeted' footballers are not brave.

I would completely agree that every gay footballer just wants to get on with their job. They don't want their sexuality coming into it, because why should it? It shouldn't matter one bit! I would also bet that every single gay footballer wants to get on with their private life and sleep with and fall in love with whoever they want/happen to but they also know that as a homosexual their private life wont remain private. People will find out and spread their private life allover the place unless they did some amazing job of keeping it secret, and who would want to feel they have to hide their lover from public view? Not be seen holding hands in public?

So yes gay footballers do want to get on with their job. But getting on with their love life is currently taking a back seat (to the extent they have to lie or not have one) as a result and I cant believe for one minute that is good for their mental health or what they want. And they feel it has to take a back seat because football does still have a massive homophobia issue which obviously makes coming out incredibly brave.

 

[Nilsson]

There is a difference between someone being brave and an act being brave. The act of coming out in itself is brave. To do this in the public eye and be the first in your 'field' is very brave with the added pressure and public scrutiny that comes with it. That is not to say 'closeted' footballers are not brave.

Well they wouldn't be the first in their field to come out as gay, Justin Fashanu and Thomas Hitzlsperger already have. Granted neither were playing at the top level when they did.

Don't get me wrong, I do think it'd be a good thing if there were some openly gay footballers playing today in the UK, I just wouldn't consider them brave.

 

[blade1889]

Well they wouldn't be the first in their field to come out as gay, Justin Fashanu and Thomas Hitzlsperger already have. Granted neither were playing at the top level when they did.

Don't get me wrong, I do think it'd be a good thing if there were some openly gay footballers playing today in the UK, I just wouldn't consider them brave.

Sorry, should have made it clear that by 'field' I meant current PL footballer but thought that was obvious.

And for the reasons already stated above you are completely wrong. Coming out, let alone as one of only 2 people out of 500(?) people in your direct line of work is very brave.

 

[Nilsson]

And for the reasons already stated above you are completely wrong. Coming out, let alone as one of only 2 people out of 500(?) people in your direct line of work is very brave.

I think you're wrong. If anything they'd be wise to come out as it'd give them more career opportunities once their playing career is over, especially if they're an average PL player who no one who's not interested in football would've heard of.

 

[blade1889]

I think you're wrong. If anything they'd be wise to come out as it'd give them more career opportunities once their playing career is over, especially if they're an average PL player who no one who's not interested in football would've heard of.

I don't really know what part(s) of my argument you're disagreeing with to come to that belief though!? You mentioned Justin Fashanu earlier who committed suicide, his brother had disowned as a result of his coming out. And whilst in many circumstances we have moved on from that there is clearly an issue when there have been NO current premier league footballers in history (over, what, 4/5000 people?) and to be a pioneer (for want of a much better word) in that respect takes serious balls. As said earlier, theres a reason more footballers aren't 'out'. And I don't for one minute believe it has anything to do with just wanting to focus on football. Which even if it were true I would argue just proves the point that a gay footballer doesn't believe he can focus on football and be openly gay which is clearly a ridiculous position to be in in 2015.

Being gay is not something to just flippantly use to give your career a boost. It has a far greater impact than that and the resulting pressure and uncertainty of how your team mates will respond. I have seen nothing to suggest that locker-rooms are not still very macho & homophobic environments, with suggestions to the complete opposite. And I've witnessed enough homophobic chants and comments at football matches to know football is not the easiest environment to be gay in.

And as said previously, all of that leads to you needing massive balls to come out and it being a very brave thing to do.

 

[Nilsson]

I don't really know what part(s) of my argument you're disagreeing with to come to that belief though!?

The bit where you say they'd be brave. I've already told you why I don't think it has anything to do with bravery in 2015. If any team mate kicked up a fuss they'd lose any credibility and possibly even put their career in jeopardy. But I don't think homophobia is as much as an issue in football as you do, I remember reading recently that there are already gay footballers at clubs where people inside the club know about them being gay.

 

[blade1889]

The bit where you say they'd be brave. I've already told you why I don't think it has anything to do with bravery in 2015. If any team mate kicked up a fuss they'd lose any credibility and possibly even put their career in jeopardy. But I don't think homophobia is as much as an issue in football as you do, I remember reading recently that there are already gay footballers at clubs where people inside the club know about them being gay.

Well yes, I understand you don't think it's brave its the arguments used to back up that statement that I'm missing. Or arguments opposing the reasons I put forward for it being brave. I think suggesting that coming out is anything but hard and brave shows an incredible lack of understanding, I am sure to do so in such a public field is even harder.

To my knowledge there is not a league footballer in the whole of England who is out. Not once have they been snapped on holiday with a bf or holding hands in the street, compared to god knows how many footballers holiday photos are on the internet. Now take a second and tell me that that is right? When statistically its meant to be 1 in 10 men that are gay, there isn't one current British footballer who has come out before. And its not even that they haven't come out, they haven't been photographed by our nosey paparazzi at a gay club, nothing. You cant possibly tell me that football does not have a homophobia issue when clearly many many individuals feel they have to hide their identity. Hide who they are.

I have read articles in the last 1-4years from PR 'gurus' who have said they have been contacted by gay footballers but the 'gurus' have advised against coming out. I have read an article from Clarke Carlisle commenting on how homophobic comments are rife in changing rooms, apologising for his own comments but making naive comments at the same time showing he clearly misses the issues. I have sat in stands and listened to the homophobic chants. The stereotyping because someone has dyed blonde hair and players being called 'faggots/gay/puffters/limpwristed' whatever derogatory term you want because they've gone down softly or neshed a tackle. It is 2015 and we have come along way but to suggest there are not homophobic issues at football grounds, in football clubs is wrong. And to suggest coming out is not brave (you think it is easy?-honest question) anyway, let alone in a situation where clearly many feel they have to hide their identity, to me, shows a huge lack of understanding.

 

[Nilsson]

think suggesting that coming out is anything but hard and brave shows an incredible lack of understanding, I am sure to do so in such a public field is even harder.

I can understand why some people find it hard to come out to people they love in fear of rejection, but there's not going to be any public backlash to a footballer coming out as gay, as I've already said they'd receive an overwhelming amount of support and praise from the public. I'd be suprised if most people in the UK don't have atleast one friend or family member who is gay. And if a gay footballer is willing to come out in the press I'd suggest they're already 100% comfortable in their own skin and have support and love from the people they care about, why do we have to patronize them and call them brave.

 

[G-Dragon]

Agreed. Nowadays its not such a big deal coming out as gay, especially in western society. I am sure majority of people see nothing wrong with someone being gay. There will always be few who have different opinion. And I am sure these guys will be making money off by selling their stories and books.

The real brave ones are the soldiers, who fight for us everyday.

 

[blade1889]

I can understand why some people find it hard to come out to people they love in fear of rejection, but there's not going to be any public backlash to a footballer coming out as gay, as I've already said they'd receive an overwhelming amount of support and praise from the public. I'd be suprised if most people in the UK don't have atleast one friend or family member who is gay. And if a gay footballer is willing to come out in the press I'd suggest they're already 100% comfortable in their own skin and have support and love from the people they care about, why do we have to patronize them and call them brave.

In my experience it is a lot more than some. Vast majority. And I'd go as far as to say it's the biggest thing most will do in their lives.

And I agree to an extent there wouldn't be a backlash, there will be the odd the person. The braveness comes from conquering the fears of how others see you. They might well be accepting on the outside but their inner-emotions may be different, they may not be but conquering the self-consciousness from that is hard... and in a changing-room environment where there is a lot of male bravado I am sure it can be very intimidating and harder. I will repeat an earlier question, why have no current footballers in England come out? If this was easy, not a big deal as you seem to suggest then there would have been some. Not one, not two, many. There is a a reason why haven't and I would suggest fear. A fear of the unknown, an uncertainty of how people will respond. How your colleagues will see you. The abuse you may get from idiots in the stands, it may just be one but let me tell you now that one can fucking hurt.

And I think you are absolutely spot-on, whether they realise it or not i doubt theres a single person in the UK who does not have an LGBT+ person as a friend or in their family.

You can have a confidence in who you are but making that leep to tell your family is massive. To then make another leep into the unknown of how fellow professionals and crowds will react is big and it is brave. No matter how comfortable you are in yourself, no matter how much love and support you have from your family you are not immune to the hurt that a minority will throw down on you. If/when these two footballers come out, take a look on twitter and i would be very surprised if there isn't one or two vermin out there ready to spout bile and to confront that head on, to open yourself up to that in such a public way, to say 'i am me, I am normal' is brave. To be the first to do it, to move the LGBT+ rights movement forward in such in important way, to teach young kids that 'youre gay' is not an insult and leave yourself so exposed as a result is brave.

It is not patronising. To suggest coming out is not brave, is not a big deal. To suggest their selfless acts (whatever monetary benefits you might imagine they will have in the future) are not a big deal, are not brave. Is offensive. It is hard, it is a big deal, it is a hurdle not one single gay premier league footballer has yet been strong enough to overcome and it is a hurdle many people never overcome be it to family or even themselves. It is brave.

Edit: Just for the comment above as I'd half expected to see someone post regarding soldiers. Hell, of course they're fucking brave. It is a completely different kind of brave, these footballers are not putting their lives directly on the line but they are opening themselves up to more abuse, hurt and pain than the vast vast vast majority of people ever will. And ffs leave money out of this, this is far bigger than money, Jesus wept. Oh and 'not a big deal' bloody hell, I found the first posters comments naive but understandable, that comment is insane. After reading it back several times I think that's probably the most ill-informed and naive comment I've read in a hell of a long time and I'm not normally one to go on the war path and pick people up on comments but fuck me.

 

[barnet_pls]

I'd expect that for most people on here - they have no idea whether coming out is brave, easy,difficult or anything else - given their not in that position. I would think it's anything but easy.

 

[blade1889]

I'd expect that for most people on here - they have no idea whether coming out is brave, easy,difficult or anything else - given their not in that position. I would think it's anything but easy.

^^

I think I have probably been harsh on Nilsson but I do enjoy challenging opinions I'm not sure are massively well informed (I could be wrong and apologise if I am)...also i was up for a debate today and you gave me the opportunity, sorry! Re challenging opinions, i love to do it nothing more than with LGBT+ issues where i think society stills holds a lot of naivety even if people generally do have the best of intentions, which i'm sure Nilsson does.

Anyways its far too late to still be up ranting on a football forum. Night

 

[Aber gas]

Agreed. Nowadays its not such a big deal coming out as gay, especially in western society. I am sure majority of people see nothing wrong with someone being gay. There will always be few who have different opinion. And I am sure these guys will be making money off by selling their stories and books.

The real brave ones are the soldiers, who fight for us everyday.

Why are you bringing up soldiers? They're not the only brave people. Coming out as gay whilst still playing premier league football would be an incredibly brave thing to do, they would be the pioneer or the vanguard and as such their life would become ridiculously scrutinised. To suggest that this could be compensated for by writing a book for money is lazy and yeah offensive.

 

[AtaturkOzgutson]

I've always thought you chuck the Biscuitmen in too, and see if they get dunked with the teabag.

----

Aside from that, of course it would be brave. It would, in a way, be a live altering thing to do. I bloody well hope it would be a positive thing, but you've seen some football fans, and there's no guarantee the reaction would be positive even in our enlightened day of age.

Sexuality is a very personal thing, and if you of any other persusian but heterosexual then coming out is huge, to family, friends etc and people can't always accept it.

I also think being known as "the gay footballer" and being some kind of circus (for better or worse) rather than being known for your career would be quite a cross to bear.

That's why it would be brave, bravery isn't just rescuing babies from burning buildings, or jumping on an IED.

 

[StagsForLife]

Good on em, it will release that stigma which is currently there.

 

[Liverlad]

How is selling a coming out story considered brave? Especially in this day and age! We are in an age where being gay is widely accepted.

Going public with your sexual preferences ( Be it straight, gay or anything else ) is not brave, its stupid and is only done by famous people these days for attention.

I can think of a lot more brave things to do than to admit you like a bit of sausage. ( Or kebab if female )

 

[Stevencc]

I'm sure these players' team mates don't know about their sexuality. There is also a possibility that their own families don't know. The potential negative reactions from some sets of fans. Being the first high-profile footballers to come out as gay in a long, long time.

Of course it would be a brave thing to do.

 

[Dave-Vale]

Chris Smalling is one, apparently.

 

[blade1889]

Shut up blade. Trying to act all self righteous, very cringe.

sorry for pointing out the ignorance in what is a very serious issue and showing the reason why the LGBT movement still has a long way to go. Essentially by 'guessing' the player you are stereotyping a whole community and it is embarrassing that this still needs to be pointed out.

YOU try living with those stereotypes
YOU try living in denial
YOU fear coming out
YOU agonize your whole life over who you are. Be told by teachers that you shouldn't be gay
YOU be told you don't 'seem gay' or that someone 'wouldn't have guessed it'
YOU live with it being acceptable for puff/gay to be an insult, being who you are an insult
YOU have abuse thrown at you, for being who you are
YOU see your friends with all sorts of mental illness' due to the abuse they have suffered from being LGBT+, having been there to try and pick up the pieces

Then stand you up for what you believe in. Once you've done that then try telling me it is not hurtful, it is not hard. Then you come and tell me that standing up for a cause this country evidently still has issues with is self righteous and very cringe.

 

[blade1889]

woah woah woah

I'm just saying that this is probably just a stupid tabloid story that probably won't happen. I'm not saying it definitely won't happen, but I doubt it will. I'm definitely not saying that players shouldn't come out.

I know you're not saying people shouldn't come out. It's the insinuation from your post that the problem with people guessing the player is that it wont happen or will be 'minor player' so people should stop guessing. The issue with people guessing is that stereotypes are always going to be used, that is a far bigger issue than the reasons you bring up and as CS said earlier is the reason why public figures coming out is still a big deal. A whole community does not fit neatly into a stereotype, you can't look at someone and guess their sexuality, to suggest otherwise is harmful, ignorant and incorrect.

I know that may not be how you wanted to come across and I'm not about to go shouting homophobia and I am sure many will have the same reaction as yourself. It doesn't stop your applied message being any less dangerous and damaging and something our society needs to address though.

 

[The Paranoid Pineapple]

The article suggests that the players are planning to go public before the start of next season... which leaves quite a lot of time in which to have a change of heart. I think things are probably moving in the right direction but this isn't much of a news story yet.

How is selling a coming out story considered brave? Especially in this day and age! We are in an age where being gay is widely accepted.

Going public with your sexual preferences ( Be it straight, gay or anything else ) is not brave, its stupid and is only done by famous people these days for attention.

I can think of a lot more brave things to do than to admit you like a bit of sausage. ( Or kebab if female )

Were blade1889's posts earlier in this thread not comprehensive enough, because I think he pretty much covered all the bases on this? It's a difficult process to go through ordinarily as you fear rejection and worry about how it might impact on your relationships. Throw in all the nonsense that comes with being a professional footballer and It's doubtless a brave move.

To expand upon this a bit: football's a multi-billion pound industry, players have great public visibility, there are a lot of people, some very powerful, who have a stake in you - fans, clubs, sponsors, colleagues, the league in which you ply your trade - who you're probably not going to want to upset. It's not traditionally been a very welcoming environment for gay people, and, when the one and only example of an out professional footballer killed himself, I think it's pretty fair to say there's still a stigma attached to homosexuality in football. It seems quite naive to imagine that the only reason we don't hear about more gay footballers is because they simply want to get on with the job. When players are known to have hired PR agents in order to actively conceal their sexuality that's indicative of a deep-rooted problem.

I'm also interested as to what "going public with your sexual preferences" constitute in your book? Because the fact that footballer x is married with kids, or is going out with her from TOWIE is information that is out there in the public domain. It's pretty normal for people to make casual reference to their partners, but this becomes a lot more complicated if you're gay because, for the most part, people will make the default assumption that you're straight. Coming out therefore becomes something of an ongoing process where, in any given interaction, you have to decide whether it's worthwhile to correct those assumptions. If you do so you run the risk of being accused of banging on about your sexuality but it's probably the only way that homosexuality is going to become normalised to the extent that we no longer need to be having these discussions.

Tbh, some of the posts in this thread aren't exactly reassuring either (can't believe in 2015 that the first reaction of some is to talk about the practicalities of sharing a shower, ffs). If anyone's in need of any further convincing that homophobia remains a fairly substantial barrier to openness about sexuality, the Mirror article also contained the following passage:

We can also reveal that another well known player came out to friends in 2011.

But a homophobic word was then daubed in paint across his car.

It is understood he is now reluctant to come out publicly in case he is the target for more abuse.

Still plenty of work to be done.

 

[JoshBCFC]

I know you're not saying people shouldn't come out. It's the insinuation from your post that the problem with people guessing the player is that it wont happen or will be 'minor player' so people should stop guessing. The issue with people guessing is that stereotypes are always going to be used, that is a far bigger issue than the reasons you bring up and as CS said earlier is the reason why public figures coming out is still a big deal. A whole community does not fit neatly into a stereotype, you can't look at someone and guess their sexuality, to suggest otherwise is harmful, ignorant and incorrect.

I agree with you there, I was just simply pointing out one very simple reason why you shouldn't really guess who it is anyway, nevermind this reason. As i said earlier, I agree that it is disrespectful to guess who it could be.

And tbh some people will have different opinions on whether it's disrespectful or not and will not stop guessing. The reason I posted above probably applies to everyone and not just the people who find it disrespectful.

 

[Abertawe]

sorry for pointing out the ignorance in what is a very serious issue and showing the reason why the LGBT movement still has a long way to go. Essentially by 'guessing' the player you are stereotyping a whole community and it is embarrassing that this still needs to be pointed out.

Deary me. A very serious issue, yep, a PL 'baller coming out as gay is on a par with all the great struggles in the world. The poor souls with mental illness in Africa being chained up for years on end ain't got shit on this issue. Nor have the young girls being nabbed and forced into the sex trade. Ethnic cleansing? Forget it.

The fact you deem ones sexual orientation as a serious issue says more about your righteous self than it does the people you're attempting to demean. You're not showing support for the LGTB movement, you're simply using the subject to massage your own ego by belittling others as ignorant. I hate to tell you this, but the vast majority of people don't give a fuck whether a person is gay or not. The mirror headline is essentially a big guess who, naturally people are going to respond by attempting to "guess".

If any individual is gay then it's a personal matter for them. We now live in a society whereby those individuals can come out and live their life to the same extent that a heterosexual person can. It's no longer an issue. People aren't defined by sexuality, although you're doing your best to make it the case.

If a player wants to make it known to the public that they're gay then superb, if they want to lead a more private life then again, superb. There are players known to be gay, ex pro's constantly confirm this. The issue with a PL player coming out isn't their sexuality, it's the subsequent attention that will follow. Most people just want a quiet life, even footballers.

I suggest you start to look at 'gays' as people as opposed to movements or community's. Tis very patronising of you. Keep attempting to demean others as ignorant or morally inferior son, it makes you look really cool.

Just seen your edit, pathetic quite frankly. Welcome to the real world you spoilt little twerp.

 

[blade1889]

Deary me. A very serious issue, yep, a PL 'baller coming out as gay is on a par with all the great struggles in the world. The poor souls with mental illness in Africa being chained up for years on end ain't got shit on this issue. Nor have the young girls being nabbed and forced into the sex trade. Ethnic cleansing? Forget it.

The fact you deem ones sexual orientation as a serious issue says more about your righteous self than it does the people you're attempting to demean. You're not showing support for the LGTB movement, you're simply using the subject to massage your own ego by belittling others as ignorant. I hate to tell you this, but the vast majority of people don't give a fuck whether a person is gay or not. The mirror headline is essentially a big guess who, naturally people are going to respond by attempting to "guess".

If any individual is gay then it's a personal matter for them. We now live in a society whereby those individuals can come out and live their life to the same extent that a heterosexual person can. It's no longer an issue. People aren't defined by sexuality, although you're doing your best to make it the case.

If a player wants to make it known to the public that they're gay then superb, if they want to lead a more private life then again, superb. There are players known to be gay, ex pro's constantly confirm this. The issue with a PL player coming out isn't their sexuality, it's the subsequent attention that will follow. Most people just want a quiet life, even footballers.

I suggest you start to look at 'gays' as people as opposed to movements or community's. Tis very patronising of you. Keep attempting to demean others as ignorant or morally inferior son, it makes you look really cool.

Just seen your edit, pathetic quite frankly. Welcome to the real world you spoilt little twerp.

just. wow.

1) homophobia is a serious issue. Others issues are also serious, more serious in fact. homophobia is still a serious issue
2) I deem homophobia and the battle against it serious
3) when footballers have superinjunctions in place to hide their sexuality it is clearly still an issue and they can not still live the same life a heterosexual person can. As CS points out earlier clearly a large amount of footballers are living with and trying to hide being gay. Not normal, not the same as a hetero.
4) the subsequent attention as a result of homosexuality still being an issue, a big deal. it shouldn't be
5) pointing out the floors in beliefs, be it of an individual or society is the only way of progressing. there is a movement, cause, charities for such reason. Or do you think homosexuality has no more causes to fight and therefore these causes/charities are now defunct?
6) spoilt in many ways, yes. incredibly spoilt, i know I am incredibly fortunate and never, ever, deny that. I refuse to accept that anything in my post previous to this should be acceptable or that arguing as such makes me even more spoilt.