2 Premier League players set to come as gay

[SALTIRE]

i would destroy that in under a minute !

You could bore her to sleep quicker than that I'd think

 

[johnnytodd]

You could bore her to sleep quicker than that I'd think

save money on the rohipnol though kidda

 

[The Paranoid Pineapple]

Keep fighting the fight brothers. Never mind if the bell rung out decades ago.

Which is presumably why rates of depression, suicide, self-harm and homelessness remain exponentially higher among the LGBT population than the population at large.

But it's not much fun engaging with such issues. Far more enjoyable to parade your own willful ignorance, erect strawmen and generally behave like a condescending tit.

 

[Abertawe]

Which is presumably why rates of depression, suicide, self-harm and homelessness remain exponentially higher among the LGBT population than the population at large.

But it's not much fun engaging with such issues. Far more enjoyable to parade your own willful ignorance, erect strawmen and generally behave like a condescending tit.

Yep, throw a blanket over it. LGBT may be the link, it certainly won't be the cause. We need to eradicate every single suicide, we do that by determining the cause and erode the contributory factors. Each of those suicides are unique. I guarantee you very few of those tragic deaths will have been borne out of the stigma of being gay.

Quite frankly it's disgusting that you see fit to throw that into a debate about PL players coming out as gay. It's not at all relevant. The only possible cause for a player not to come out is stigma. There are a million & one causes for a poor soul to take their life. With you being so enlightened and non ignorant an all, it won't surprise you that those who identify as LGBT are massively over represented in the care system. Contributory factor. How dare you use the plight of poor souls to demean, disgusting.

 

[blade1889]

This is why I say your comments are ignorant Abertawe.

NHS:
http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/LGBhealth/Pages/Mentalhealth.aspx

I think

Experiencing these difficulties can mean many gay and bisexual people face mental health issues, including:

• difficulty accepting their sexual orientation, leading to conflicts, denial, alcohol abuse and isolation
• trying to keep their sexuality a secret through lying, pretending or leading a double life

Is very pertinent when you consider none out of 5,000 professional footballers in England are openly gay

Here is a review of a study from 2014, showing that these issues are still present and at far higher levels in the LGBT community:
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...ntal-health-problems-survey-says-9709761.html

 

[Abertawe]

This is why I say your comments are ignorant Abertawe.

NHS:
http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/LGBhealth/Pages/Mentalhealth.aspx

I think

Is very pertinent when you consider none out of 5,000 professional footballers in England are openly gay

Here is a review of a study from 2014, showing that these issues are still present and at far higher levels in the LGBT community:
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...ntal-health-problems-survey-says-9709761.html

If anything that only goes to prove your ignorance. See my response to pineapple.

BTW, why are you so geared towards calling me ignorant?

 

[blade1889]

Abertawe, you were the one suggesting the fight is over and the bell has rung. Or whatever phrasing you used, the above suggests that comment is incredibly ignorant. The fight is clearly anything but over. And when a contributory factor to mental health issues with LGBT people is a fear of coming out (which is what we're talking about here with the footballers, coming out) then it is relevant to bring mental health up.

You are completely correct in saying people will face mental health challenges for a range of reasons. People will commit suicide for a range of reasons. And damn right every single one of those reasons needs to be tackled. With rates clearly higher in the LGBT community then it us not a massive assumption to believe the stigma, abuse, denial, hiding your identity regards to your sexuality is a contributory factor in some cases. And for that reason it is a valid fight and footballers coming out and normalising what should already be normal they will help end some of the abuse, stigma and hopefully encourage others to be brave and bold about who they are is a big & important topic.

 

[Abertawe]

Abertawe, you were the one suggesting the fight is over and the bell has rung. Or whatever phrasing you used, the above suggests that comment is incredibly ignorant. The fight is clearly anything but over. And when a contributory factor to mental health issues with LGBT people is a fear of coming out (which is what we're talking about here with the footballers, coming out) then it is relevant to bring mental health up.

The stigma of coming out being a contributory factor will account for a very small proportion of mental health cases attributed with those identifying as LGTB. How the fuck would you even measure that anyway? They can't be measured if they're hiding it surely.

I know you mean well but you're so misguided. Let me highlight example from my own ignorant experience. Back in the day when I was living in a hostel, there was a young dude called Jamie. Jamie was gay, he was also very mentally unstable. Not because he was gay, but because he suffered at the hands of a monster when he was little.

Just because you heard jibez on the playground doesn't mean you have an insight into all things gay and subsequent mh probs. Coming out must be incredibly stressful, but it's a necessary must and a challenge that all must overcome in order to be true to themselves. To equate that to true head fuck issues is ignorant in the extreme.

There isn't a stigma in the UK. You have a minority like that Crewe c*** but why would you give credence to someone like that. There can't be many better places to be gay than in the UK.

 

[SALTIRE]

Like I said above you'd just be mindful of one of the guys being of that ilk,that's all.

I personally do not. Do many heterosexuals have such doubt and fear about themselves that they'd be wary of anyone who is gay as they think they are all sexual predators? That is being prejudiced in the extreme and tells of weak character from the person judging.

 

[Abertawe]

As the poll in the general is proving any stigma is self induced. Therefore any snide comments trying to highlight ignorance isn't required.

The answers you seek lie within.

 

[blade1889]

The stigma of coming out being a contributory factor will account for a very small proportion of mental health cases attributed with those identifying as LGTB. How the fuck would you even measure that anyway? They can't be measured if they're hiding it surely.

I know you mean well but you're so misguided. Let me highlight example from my own ignorant experience. Back in the day when I was living in a hostel, there was a young dude called Jamie. Jamie was gay, he was also very mentally unstable. Not because he was gay, but because he suffered at the hands of a monster when he was little.

Just because you heard jibez on the playground doesn't mean you have an insight into all things gay and subsequent mh probs. Coming out must be incredibly stressful, but it's a necessary must and a challenge that all must overcome in order to be true to themselves. To equate that to true head fuck issues is ignorant in the extreme.

There isn't a stigma in the UK. You have a minority like that Crewe c*** but why would you give credence to someone like that. There can't be many better places to be gay than in the UK.

It isn't the issue of coming out. Its the issue of not coming out. Of hiding yourself. To family, friends and Joe bloggs. People shouldn't feel that it is hard, it is nothing to be ashamed or embarrassed about. But for many, including myself, it is hard. And it is hard because there is still a lot of ignorance on the subject and people don't realise that being LGBT is normal. The fact that so few footballers, whom many boys idolise as young people that are openly gay does compound the issues. Having a vast group of people clearly feel they have to hide themselves does not help and these are probably some of the most mentally strong people on the planet with the abuse they get.

I have no idea how you would measure it. I would agree that you cant, all you can form is a correlation but not causation. It is not a giant leap when you read the statistics in the independent article I cite above to see that LGBT people are suffering more than cis het people and from there it isn't a giant leap to see that there are still issues out there.

And it isn't 'playground jibez'. I have people slow down their car, roll down the window and shout insults at me. I have had teachers tell me not to be who I am, that its a sin. I have had friends cut me off. And I am no expert on mental health, I am incredibly fortunate that I have never had MH problems but many of my best friends have and they pu t some (a lot) of it down to the bullying they received because of being LGBT. The comments are from a minority, but the comments still hurt. The bullying from in the playground is from naive children, but they are naive because of the society we grow up in where being LGBT is not seen as normal. For every prominent sports person or influential person in their lives that encourages LGBT peoples acceptance, that we are normal we win a little bit more of the fight. As forward as we are compared to many, we are still a long way off where we should be.

I am not saying every LGBT person suffers MH issues. I am not saying every LGBT person receives the abuse (although I can think of very few that don't). But it is ignorant to suggest that we could not do more on LGBT issues, that there is a long way to go to achieve equality and until that happens LGBT people will have avoidable MH issue.

I'm going to leave this saying I am not trying to be offensive. I am not trying to point score. I am trying to point out ways that our society still spreads ignorant, hurtful and damaging ideas about LGBT people. I am not camp, wear fake tan and have good fashion sense. I am not a stereotype and to perpetuate ideas that LGBT people fit into neat little boxes is entirely inaccurate and shows an ignorance on the issues that can be and are damaging to many people. I have an ignorance on many subjects, I can make clumsy stereotypes about ethnic minorities and transgendered people. It isn't because I'm racist or transphobic, its because I have an ignorance on some topics and when I am such I hope people challenge me because whether I have good intentions or not I know that the outcome doesn't always ally with the intention.

 

[TomPNE94]

If any individual is gay then it's a personal matter for them. We now live in a society whereby those individuals can come out and live their life to the same extent that a heterosexual person can. It's no longer an issue. People aren't defined by sexuality, although you're doing your best to make it the case.

If you genuinely believe any of the drivel above, you're fucking deluded.

 

[Techno Natch]

Probably going over ground that has already been covered here but there is no doubt that it is still hard to come out, not only in your private life but also in your work life. Being gay is a massive part of your identity, if you have to hide that from everyone through fear of reprise then it's incredibly isolating. There is still a lot of homophobia across society, a lot of it is said in "jest" and no real harm is meant. Not many people I know personally are homophobic but there are many people out there who still think that it's "disgusting". Certainly I can think of my brother and his mates who are all football lads funnily enough.

We've already seen some pretty dumb comments in here like "What would the team mates think if they shared a shower with him etc...." why would it bother them? It's the guy that thinks that who has the problem.

Generally homophobia is treated with disdain these days, being openly homophobic is generally not seen as acceptable and the media seems supportive. However that doesn't mean that behind closed doors that there will not be bullying going on, I know it was already mentioned but please see what Clarke Carisle said about his abuse of Wade Elliot.

It's possible that these people have come out already in private and generally people know and so I guess you can ask why should/would a footballer come out publicly?

I don't think it's attention as has been suggested in here but instead a way to support those players who are still in silence or suffering. The press will report it, hopefully be pretty supportive and anyone who abuses them would get called out you'd imagine. It's a chance for football to say they have moved on from the time of Fashanu, and that will hopefully give strength to other players who have been struggling with their own identity to also come out either in private or publicly. If it gives even one person strength then this is only a positive thing.

Once those first few people come out, the press will lose interest, no one will care if a footballer is gay or not and then people can just go about their normal life without worry. At the moment a player probably feels he can't go to public events with his partner purely because of the media fan fare which effectively means they can't live a normal life. This won't change unless people take the plunge and come out first.

I've just read back a bit and seen that Blades pretty much said all this already...... So yeah what Blade said.....

 

[The Paranoid Pineapple]

Yep, throw a blanket over it. LGBT may be the link, it certainly won't be the cause. We need to eradicate every single suicide, we do that by determining the cause and erode the contributory factors. Each of those suicides are unique. I guarantee you very few of those tragic deaths will have been borne out of the stigma of being gay.

Quite frankly it's disgusting that you see fit to throw that into a debate about PL players coming out as gay. It's not at all relevant. The only possible cause for a player not to come out is stigma. There are a million & one causes for a poor soul to take their life. With you being so enlightened and non ignorant an all, it won't surprise you that those who identify as LGBT are massively over represented in the care system. Contributory factor. How dare you use the plight of poor souls to demean, disgusting.

There's actually quite a lot of research which indicates that young LGBT people experience far higher rates of verbal, physical and sexual abuse, and that homophobic bullying, the struggle to come out and fear of familial rejection are prominent contributory factors to feeling depressed and suicidal.

It's relevant to the discussion because you so confidently declared that one's sexuality is "no longer an issue". The newsworthiness of this topic is purely down to the fact that there are no openly gay players in football's highest echelons - it's impossible to explore the reasons why that might be the case without placing it in a broader social context.

I imagine that it might be quite nice to imagine that there are no longer any issues - people ostensibly enjoy equality of opportunity so everything's marvellous. It doesn't quite work like that in reality though - yes, the UK has come a hell of a long way in recent decades, is a relatively tolerant and gay-friendly society but that doesn't mean there aren't fairly substantial barriers to be broken down and that we've eradicated all prejudice - professional sport is one area in which homosexuality remains a somewhat taboo topic.

 

[Techno Natch]

Im talking about people who are not gay who bang on about this coming out stuff being brave... So no, not homophobic at all.

It is brave to come out as gay though. The fear that the people who are closest to you will no longer like you or even worse hate you because of your sexuality makes it a very hard plunge to make. I'm not sure why that's hard to understand.

 

[Abertawe]

It is brave to come out as gay though. The fear that the people who are closest to you will no longer like or even worse hate you because of your sexuality makes it a very hard plunge to make. I'm not sure why that's hard to understand.

The vast majority of people have no problem with gayness though. It's not like it was 30 years ago. It's a gay time to be gay and its only getting gayer and I for one am very gay about that.

 

[Techno Natch]

The vast majority of people have no problem with gayness though. It's not like it was 30 years ago. It's a gay time to be gay and its only getting gayer and I for one am very gay about that.

It doesn't matter about the "Vast majority." They are not necessarily the people that are closest to you. The people who are closest to you and mean the most to you will seem like everyone in your world. The fear isn't about people you don't know or that you've yet to meet but the people who are closest to you.

When you've already come out, new people you meet will usually find out you're gay from the beginning or very early on. It's the relationships that you've already got that you worry about. You worry that the dynamic might change, especially if they have previously come across as slightly homophobic.

I'm well aware that we've come along way in the last 30 years, but there is still a lot of homophobia that goes on behind closed doors and it's obvious that some people behind those doors might be gay themselves. So for them to come out takes a lot of courage.

 

[Jockney]

I've never met a self-professed homophobe, but then I've also never met a self-professed Tory voter and there are millions of those.

Once you're able to start making decisions for yourself as an adult, you tend to avoid talking to and putting yourself in situations with people who hold radically different views to your own. I've never met a self-professed homophobe or Tory voter, but then I've never needed official confirmation.

 

[Saddlerrad]

So much dross in this thread it's unreal.