Anti Vaxxers.

[JaseTheVillain]

Yeah, not derailing the thread, thanks for your valuable input though, Johnny.

 

[Pagnell]

Irresponsible c*** who think that, because they read about some crackpot conspiracy theory on a website, they know more than the medical profession.

 

[blade1889]

I don't think it is.

Even the seatbelt analogy isn't entirely accurate imo. People make kids wear seatbelts because they know it keeps them safe (education). Not because they don't want to get a fine for not doing so (the state making them do it).

If the evidence is there to support your side of the argument, gotta step up the education to a level where vaccines are as much a non-brainer as wearing a seatbelt. And don't be saying it's easy for someone to go to the library to do their own research on vaccinations because honestly who even does that.

Don't take away civil liberties. As folk said earlier in the thread, educate. Educate, educate, and educate until nobody wants to not have their kids vaccinated.

I guess.

http://www.google.co.uk/url?q=https...ggTMAM&usg=AFQjCNGYZm9aZeWSuTDIYVEbezf9d8SVVw

I hope that link works cos its a PDF I'm not sure it will.

The interesting date is 1983 where seat belt wearing had increased to 50% (from 30%) thanks to an advertisement campaign. Its also the year where it became compulsory to wear a seat belt, after which the wearing rate shot up to 95%. Before then people were trying to block the law because of civil liberty arguments.

We have education, as silky points out above midwives are there to talk through issues. As are community nurses and GPs. Now we need to ramp it up to get as many of the remaining people on board and vaccinating their children, similar to seat belts, means making it a legal requirement.

As a link I posted earlier also explains, even faced with the facts (some) anti-vaxxers are still anti-vaxxers and, worryingly, pushed further towards believing they are correct. That anyone with evidence on the effectiveness of vaccines is working for a pharma company. I dont see these people being persuaded by even more education, at some point, for the good health of their children and those who cant have vaccines the decision needs to be made to take the decision out of their hands.

 

[Pagnell]

As a link I posted earlier also explains, even faced with the facts anti-vaxxers are still anti-vaxxers and, worryingly, pushed further towards believing they are correct. That anyone with evidence on the effectiveness of vaccines is working for a pharma company. I dont see these people being persuaded by even more education, at some point, for the good health of their children and those who cant have vaccines the decision needs to be made to take the decision out of their hands.

I agree with this. It's complete madness. In some fucked up portion of their mind, these parents actually think they're protecting their children by refusing vaccinations, despite the medical facts pointing to the complete opposite. The simply question is to ask if a parent's irresponsible stubbornness should stand in the way of a child's safety.

Unfortunately, enforced vaccinations would be almost impossible to, well, enforce. And, should a child develop a serious illness in the months/years following that vaccination, the parents would no doubt believe they were right all along the vaccination was at fault and would take action, even if it clearly wasn't the case.

 

[johnnytodd]

Ahh people being brainwashed by the state .......where have we heard this before?..............the 10 biggest pharmacutical companies in the world are owned by guess who.................freemasons.
#brainwashed

 

[Pagnell]

Johnny, putting aside that you sound like a 13 year old on here, I'm aware you claim to have been around in the 70s and 80s. Do you have any kids? And did you have them vaccinated?

 

[johnnytodd]

Johnny, putting aside that you sound like a 13 year old on here, I'm aware you claim to have been around in the 70s and 80s. Do you have any kids? And did you have them vaccinated?

3 actaully.......... well 2 .......1 of them morphed into an Ewok when he had the flu jab at 6.

 

[Pagnell]

So you did have them vaccinated and you're simply trolling in that case.

 

[Cheese & Biscuits]

3 actaully.......... well 2 .......1 of them morphed into an Ewok when he had the flu jab at 6.

Before:

After:

Poor kid.

 

[johnnytodd]

So you did have them vaccinated and you're simply trolling in that case.

Vaccinated against what?

 

[Stagat]

http://www.google.co.uk/url?q=https...ggTMAM&usg=AFQjCNGYZm9aZeWSuTDIYVEbezf9d8SVVw

I hope that link works cos its a PDF I'm not sure it will.

The interesting date is 1983 where seat belt wearing had increased to 50% (from 30%) thanks to an advertisement campaign. Its also the year where it became compulsory to wear a seat belt, after which the wearing rate shot up to 95%. Before then people were trying to block the law because of civil liberty arguments.

We have education, as silky points out above midwives are there to talk through issues. As are community nurses and GPs. Now we need to ramp it up to get as many of the remaining people on board and vaccinating their children, similar to seat belts, means making it a legal requirement.

As a link I posted earlier also explains, even faced with the facts (some) anti-vaxxers are still anti-vaxxers and, worryingly, pushed further towards believing they are correct. That anyone with evidence on the effectiveness of vaccines is working for a pharma company. I dont see these people being persuaded by even more education, at some point, for the good health of their children and those who cant have vaccines the decision needs to be made to take the decision out of their hands.

Yeah, your link works mate. Thanks for taking the time to find it.

This is clearly an emotive issue based on some of the posts in this thread and I'm neither knowledgeable nor bothered enough to contribute at that level. I'm just looking at it from the perspective of choice and freedom and not from what is supposedly medically true.

If a person doesn't want a substance put into their child's body, why should they be forced to have it happen is the crux of my opinion right now.

Which is why I say educate until they do want it put in.

 

[Pagnell]

Vaccinated against what?

Polio, TB for example. And, depending on their age, the MMR etc.

 

[blade1889]

Yeah, your link works mate. Thanks for taking the time to find it.

This is clearly an emotive issue based on some of the posts in this thread and I'm neither knowledgeable nor bothered enough to contribute at that level. I'm just looking at it from the perspective of choice and freedom and not from what is supposedly medically true.

If a person doesn't want a substance put into their child's body, why should they be forced to have it happen is the crux of my opinion right now.

Which is why I say educate until they do want it put in.

I get where you're coming from and generally I'm pro-choice/increasing education. Just that for me it comes down to 'do what you want so long as it doesn't negatively affect anyone', which is where for me the anti-vaxxers fall down. If we are pro-choice then what do we think the child would choose (it is the child it affects after all), take a medically safe vaccine (there really is no 'supposedly' about it) or risk contracting measles and potential lifetime consequences?

I know I'm repeating myself but I also think there's only so far education can go when people still argue the inarguable.

 

[johnnytodd]

Polio, TB for example. And, depending on their age, the MMR etc.

I dunno i'll ask their dad when i see him .

 

[Pagnell]

Well I can tell you, they did.

 

[johnnytodd]

Well I can tell you, they did.

 

[johnnytodd]

Polio, TB for example. And, depending on their age, the MMR etc.

yeah of course we did, out of interest i know a family who were done for neglect for not getting their kids needles done ( they were going through a divorce soon after baby was born i think)........social threatening to take their kids of them..........bad times

 

[silkyman]

I get where you're coming from and generally I'm pro-choice/increasing education. Just that for me it comes down to 'do what you want so long as it doesn't negatively affect anyone', which is where for me the anti-vaxxers fall down. If we are pro-choice then what do we think the child would choose (it is the child it affects after all), take a medically safe vaccine (there really is no 'supposedly' about it) or risk contracting measles and potential lifetime consequences?

I know I'm repeating myself but I also think there's only so far education can go when people still argue the inarguable.

It's not just about that one child either. It's herd immunity. Some family don't get their kid vaccinated, he picks up measles from some other family who didn't, then visits his three month old cousin who catches it because he's too young to have had it.

People are being selfish.

 

[JaseTheVillain]

And the wonderful reality of it is, the three month old will probably die.

 

[johnnytodd]

Yeah, not derailing the thread, thanks for your valuable input though, Johnny.

tbf you and others brought me into the thread.......i just made it better.

 

[SALTIRE]

Before:

After:

Poor kid.

I always call Patrick Viera Morph as I think he looks the spitting image of him, is that racist?

 

[johnnytodd]

Out of interest are these foreigners that walk into our country every day had their vacinations?

coincidence that diseases on the rise ?

 

[JaseTheVillain]

Aaand the racist/xenophobic angle now starts, wonderful.

 

[claret50]

JT's question seems a reasonable one to me.

 

[Womble98]

It certainly is a concern about migrants coming in who haven't been vaccinated. That's why those we take in on asylum should be vaccinated for free, and those who come in as migrants should contribute towards their vaccination costs.

 

[Aber gas]

It certainly is a concern about migrants coming in who haven't been vaccinated. That's why those we take in on asylum should be vaccinated for free, and those who come in as migrants should contribute towards their vaccination costs.

I agree to an extent, the main issue with refugee and migrant healthcare is one of access. Many of them have little or no access to healthcare. This is due to suspicion of authority, lacking the language skills to cope with the administrative side and the basic problem of literally not knowing where to go. I'm not blaming anyone for this reality but I do think the agencies involved need to rectify the situation probably in conjunction with charities and organisations involved with refugee welfare. https://www.ein.org.uk/news/doctors-world-find-migrants-are-avoiding-seeking-medical-treatment

 

[silkyman]

But when we're talking about vaccination, then it's not about their access to healthcare now, it's what was going on when they were five.

The kids there were being vaccinated even during the war, because unfortunately, this happened.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/17/syrian-children-die-contaminated-measles-vaccine

For the adults, if there wasn't a vaccination programme when they were kids, the chances are, they had it as kids.

 

[Aber gas]

But when we're talking about vaccination, then it's not about their access to healthcare now, it's what was going on when they were five.

The kids there were being vaccinated even during the war, because unfortunately, this happened.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/17/syrian-children-die-contaminated-measles-vaccine

For the adults, if there wasn't a vaccination programme when they were kids, the chances are, they had it as kids.

That's fine but refugees do have young children who aren't getting medical care so aren't being given the chance for vaccination

 

[silkyman]

Well, there's not actually THAT many getting in to the UK, so perhaps the answer should be that we (ie Europe, where most of them are) just, well, vaccinate them?

 

[Aber gas]

Well, there's not actually THAT many getting in to the UK, so perhaps the answer should be that we (ie Europe, where most of them are) just, well, vaccinate them?

Well yes, that's a great idea but perhaps the " not many" should have the chance for medical care here too.