Congratulations Leicester

[Jockney]

Leicester fans stuck with their club through the bad times. Man City fans claim they did- but didn't. Silkyman is an example of this. If you think they have an empty stadium now, you should have seen it before the Arab came in. They are everything that true football fans detest. Money, no soul, plastic, hollow...

they averaged 28k fans when they were in the 3rd tier. Leicester gained 7000 fans when they were promoted to the prem, city's attendances remained fairly consistent.

but keep chatting shit yeah.

 

[JimJams]

Will he get banged?

 

[St. Juste]

In a somewhat balanced league, yes, 80-1 seems reasonable. The Premier League is far from a balanced league, and the 5000-1 odds reflect this. You could have bet on Newcastle, Sunderland, Villa, West Brom, Bournemouth, Norwich or Watford at equal or longer odds.

The theory I've seen is that the bookies lost money as a result of mid-season bets, because they didn't reduce odds sufficiently even after Leicester's good start.

The Premier League is demonstrably a balanced league. And 5000-1 odds were utterly ridiculous, do you really think Elvis being found alive is far, far more likely than the team who last year were 14th best becoming the best? 80-1 was sensible odds, the achievement is exactly the same as what Montpelier did.

Also Ladbrokes have even admitted that they won on Leicester winning the league

This is not only the biggest shock in Premier League history, but also in the history of sport.

Good grief.

 

[rudebwoyben]

The Premier League is demonstrably a balanced league. And 5000-1 odds were utterly ridiculous, do you really think Elvis being found alive is far, far more likely than the team who last year were 14th best becoming the best? 80-1 was sensible odds, the achievement is exactly the same as what Montpelier did.

Also Ladbrokes have even admitted that they won on Leicester winning the league



Good grief.

No it is not the same achievement as Montpelier winning it. We've explained why but you just refuse to engage with our arguments.

 

[JimJams]

Because Hugh does that.

 

[Veggie Legs]

Because Hugh does that.

I started writing a reply to his post but then I realised that it really wasn't worth my time.

 

[Libertadores FC]

Montpelier was impressive, but the same as Leicester? Don't even compare.

 

[Pagnell]

Montpelier finished 5th just two seasons before they won the title. Leicester were in the Championship two seasons ago and before this season their highest top flight finish in the Sky era was 8th place 16 years ago. So, whilst it's impressive from the French outfit, there isn't really a comparison and to call it exactly the same is ridiculous.

 

[St. Juste]

No it is not the same achievement as Montpelier winning it. We've explained why but you just refuse to engage with our arguments.

I wrote several lengthy posts engaging each of the "arguments";.

The only real response anyone has is "but the bookies!!!11" and I'm pointing out they got this one drastically wrong, and it doesn't add to the achievement in any sense whatsoever.

I started writing a reply to his post but then I realised that it really wasn't worth my time.

Sure you did.

Montpelier was impressive, but the same as Leicester? Don't even compare.

Finishing 14th one season and finishing 1st the next doesn't compare? The two situations are virtually identical.

Montpelier finished 5th just two seasons before they won the title. Leicester were in the Championship two seasons ago and before this season their highest top flight finish in the Sky era was 8th place 16 years ago. So, whilst it's impressive from the French outfit, there isn't really a comparison and to call it exactly the same is ridiculous.

If we're going back historically then Montpelier spent three years in the third division in the early 2000s - Leicester have only ever spent one season in their entire history.

Montpelier are a small club, certainly smaller than Leicester. Them going from 14th to 1st is an achievement that is virtually identical to that of Leicester, in a slightly weaker league.

 

[markwwfc1992]

You don't understand that the French League was shit, and there were no real stand out teams in the league that year, anyone had a chance of winning it that year.

The Premier League in comparison was, much, much harder to win. There are 5 or 6 teams with world class squads of players at the disposal. For Leciester to win under those circumstances is incomparable to what Montpelier did. Even a team like Everton, who are mid table, would be better than the French teams in their league that year.

 

[Mr Bauer]

Without a shadow of a doubt the biggest sporting upset in my lifetime. Perhaps quite possibly beyond that to.

You cannot put into words how impressive an achievement this is.

 

[Pagnell]

If we're going back historically then Montpelier spent three years in the third division in the early 2000s - Leicester have only ever spent one season in their entire history.

Montpelier are a small club, certainly smaller than Leicester. Them going from 14th to 1st is an achievement that is virtually identical to that of Leicester, in a slightly weaker league.

I notice that you completely ignored my point that, finishing 5th then winning the title of the same division within two years is a world apart from being promoted from the league below then winning the top flight title within two years.

You're arguing for the sake of it here, I don't think even you believe the situations are identical.

 

[Libertadores FC]

Firstly, the PL is the NBA of football. Its by far the biggest and most followed league in the world. River Plate are a huge club, and River Plate going to the second division was possibly the biggest shock in South American football history. Not the world because not many people follow the Argentina Primera Division outside of Latin America. Even when it was a world class league. The PL is not the best league in the world by any means but its in the top 3 and by a mile the most followed in the world.

Second, you're forgetting the money in the PL compared to the French League. The PL is money driven, especially the top teams. The French League has PSG, yeah (not sure how they were back then), PL has 4 PSG's, in Chelsea, City, Arsenal and United as teams who spunk a load of money. Look at how much they spent for Mahrez, 400,000 in the French second division, and I remember people were saying Vardy was a championship player at best last season. He came from the non-leagues! Kante is a player I've never even heard of before Leicester bought him.

Lastly, many people thought Leicester were finished last year as they were 20th until about the spring and then went on a run. They nearly went down last year, Montpelier as you said finished 14th the season prior.

 

[JaseTheVillain]

I fail to understand why you're bothering arguing with him, he's either ignorant to other arguments, or on a wind-up...

 

[Stevencc]

https://twitter.com/danroan/status/728197351337275392

A king amongst men.

 

[St. Juste]

You don't understand that the French League was shit, and there were no real stand out teams in the league that year, anyone had a chance of winning it that year.

The Premier League in comparison was, much, much harder to win. There are 5 or 6 teams with world class squads of players at the disposal. For Leciester to win under those circumstances is incomparable to what Montpelier did. Even a team like Everton, who are mid table, would be better than the French teams in their league that year.

Anyone had a chance of winning it that year? Really? And people accuse me of being on the wind up?

The English league this year has been drastically poor with no stand out teams beyond Leicester and Spurs.

I don't know of any of these 5 or 6 teams, Man City are likely the best and looked drastically out their depth against Real Madrid over two legs - as well as getting beaten twice by Juventus in the same competition. Where are these World Class squads?

Indeed, there are very few even World Class players playing in the Premier League any more.never mind "World Class Squads".

As for the last statement, that is a quite extraordinary leap. It's like saying Sunderland would probably win the 1970 World Cup, and should be greeted with similar disdain.

Without a shadow of a doubt the biggest sporting upset in my lifetime. Perhaps quite possibly beyond that to.

You cannot put into words how impressive an achievement this is.

You'd think a French 9th division team won the French Cup, not a side finishing 14th one year finishing 1st the next.

I notice that you completely ignored my point that, finishing 5th then winning the title of the same division within two years is a world apart from being promoted from the league below then winning the top flight title within two years.

You're arguing for the sake of it here, I don't think even you believe the situations are identical.

It's not a world apart, I don't really think the previous season is all that relevant. But, at best, it's a minor point - one small difference between two situations that are actually incredible similar.

I'm sorry their identical league positions only span 2 years, not three.

It's interesting you think I'm arguing for the sake of it, given I'm merely contending that Leicester winning the league isn't the most amazing thing that has ever happened anywhere - ever.

Firstly, the PL is the NBA of football. Its by far the biggest and most followed league in the world. River Plate are a huge club, and River Plate going to the second division was possibly the biggest shock in South American football history. Not the world because not many people follow the Argentina Primera Division outside of Latin America. Even when it was a world class league. The PL is not the best league in the world by any means but its in the top 3 and by a mile the most followed in the world.

Second, you're forgetting the money in the PL compared to the French League. The PL is money driven, especially the top teams. The French League has PSG, yeah (not sure how they were back then), PL has 4 PSG's, in Chelsea, City, Arsenal and United as teams who spunk a load of money. Look at how much they spent for Mahrez, 400,000 in the French second division, and I remember people were saying Vardy was a championship player at best last season. He came from the non-leagues! Kante is a player I've never even heard of before Leicester bought him.

Lastly, many people thought Leicester were finished last year as they were 20th until about the spring and then went on a run. They nearly went down last year, Montpelier as you said finished 14th the season prior.

I don't think the Premier League is the "biggest" (whatever that means) league in the world but even if it is - it clearly and demonstrably is not the best. Which can be quantified and easily assessed by looking at results in European competition - where Spain (and to a lesser extent Germany) perform significantly better. Also most followed is not a static concept, it flows as interest and ability does - the EPL primary selling point for years was that it was broadcast in English, which gave it a huge advantage in the Asian market.

That's a pretty tenuous competitive advantage. With Spanish football utterly dominant in Europe you can only assume that these fans will soon migrate to to watching that and it will soon have the dubious moniker of "most followed league in the world".

The EPL has an egalitarian way of distributing TV money, this means that even Leicester have a budget far bigger than many European teams (and many multiples of Montpelier). They have far more of a chance of matching the top teams as Las Palmas do of matching Barcelona given the financial disparity of the Spanish League. Similarly, Montpelier wouldn't have been close to financially competing with Lille, PSG, Lyon, Borduex, Marseille etc. Their achievement is both extraordinary and almost identical to that of Leicester - they certainly did it on a far smaller budget than Leicester did.

Montpelier and Leicester both finished 14th the season before winning the league - that's my entire point.

I fail to understand why you're bothering arguing with him, he's either ignorant to other arguments, or on a wind-up...

So....not thinking Leicester winning the league is the most amazing thing ever to happen in sport is me being on the wind up?

Really?

The facts speak for themselves, both teams finished 14th one season (in a 20 team league) then 1st the season after. I don't have to say the situations are virtually identical, it's clear they absolutely are. But it doesn't fit in with the hyperbolic narrative of "first time this kind of thing has ever happened" ; "biggest shock in sporting history".

Yeah, sorry I'm raining on such a ridiculous parade. I am happy for Leicester, but surely people aren't arrogant enough to believe this is the first time an unfancied team has even won the league in a top nation?

 

[SALTIRE]

https://twitter.com/danroan/status/728197351337275392

A king amongst men.

Those same 'journalists' who predicted he wouldn't last six games, bunch of scumbag parasites.

 

[Pagnell]

It's interesting you think I'm arguing for the sake of it, given I'm merely contending that Leicester winning the league isn't the most amazing thing that has ever happened anywhere - ever.

No, you're also claiming the Montpelier and Leicester winning their respective leagues are equally impressive. I'm saying they're not. I'm not even debating with you about it being the "most amazing thing that has ever happened anywhere - ever".

 

[Renegade]

Leicester winning the Premier League is without a doubt the most amazing thing that has ever happened anywhere ever. It goes:

Leicester winning the title
...
...
...
Big Bang
The double helix
John Terry's slip in the CL final

 

[AFCB_Mark]

Ah, now I twig who this chap is/was. And "arguing for the sake of it" was pretty much the MO as I remember it.

Chuckled at the irony of discussing the Premier League's worldwide popularity due to language as compared with say Spain, with Lib of all the people

 

[Christian Slater]

They've got Andrea Bocelli performing for their home celebration this weekend. Vardy will be gutted they're not playing donk.

 

[St. Juste]

No, you're also claiming the Montpelier and Leicester winning their respective leagues are equally impressive. I'm saying they're not. I'm not even debating with you about it being the "most amazing thing that has ever happened anywhere - ever".

You're saying they're not, and yet the situations could scarcely be more identical if they tried. Two unheralded and pretty unsuccessful clubs (Montpelier even less heralded and even less successful) finish 14th one season and then miraculously finish 1st the next despite being up against far larger and richer clubs.

Anyone arguing against that is surely say black is white? I don't know why people insist on knocking down Montpeliers' virtually identical achievement.

Do you think Leicester winning is the greatest achievement ever in sport? As some on this thread do?

Ah, now I twig who this chap is/was. And "arguing for the sake of it" was pretty much the MO as I remember it.

Chuckled at the irony of discussing the Premier League's worldwide popularity due to language as compared with say Spain, with Lib of all the people

Erm, being broadcast in English is obviously a huge advantage in the largest market in the world - Asia. There are more English speakers in China than there is in any other country in the world.

It's a pretty slippery competitive advantage to have, Spain can now broadcast gains in English and gain some of the early mover advantage the Premier League had. The fact their teams are now CL also rans will be another factor pushing floating fans towards Spanish clubs.

The fact the football industry as a whole is tittering on the precipice of people being stupid enough to pay for TV content they can easily access for free is a whole other issue.

 

[smat]

Does anyone know where Montpellier finished in 2010-11?

 

[St. Juste]

14th (and only 1 point away from 17th and 3 from being relegated in 18th).

 

[Pagnell]

You're saying they're not, and yet the situations could scarcely be more identical if they tried. Two unheralded and pretty unsuccessful clubs (Montpelier even less heralded and even less successful) finish 14th one season and then miraculously finish 1st the next despite being up against far larger and richer clubs.

Anyone arguing against that is surely say black is white? I don't know why people insist on knocking down Montpeliers' virtually identical achievement.

You're looking at this far too simply, deliberately I suspect and are fixating on this 14th place point you keep reeling off. Firstly, the leagues were vastly different in terms of quality (something already pointed out but you chose to ignore it). And secondly, as I have already said, one team was not even in the top flight two seasons prior to winning the league, the other finished 5th. Despite dropping to 14th the season after, this shows the French team were in a much better position to make that title bid, even if we ignore the first point about the quality of the leagues.

Perhaps the idea of giving due credit to an English team repulses you?

Do you think Leicester winning is the greatest achievement ever in sport? As some on this thread do?

I've not really thought about it. Probably not, but it's up there.

 

[St. Juste]

You're looking at this far too simply, deliberately I suspect and are fixating on this 14th place point you keep reeling off. Firstly, the leagues were vastly different in terms of quality (something already pointed out but you chose to ignore it). And secondly, as I have already said, one team was not even in the top flight two seasons prior to winning the league, the other finished 5th. Despite dropping to 14th the season after, this shows the French team were in a much better position to make that title bid, even if we ignore the first point about the quality of the leagues.

Perhaps the idea of giving due credit to an English team repulses you?

I've not really thought about it. Probably not, but it's up there.

I'm not sure the difference is that vast in quality. But even if it is, the relative quality difference makes no difference to the magnitude of the achievement. Montpelier were a much poorer team than Leicester, a lower wage budget, far lower net spend etc. and yet they beat sides with much bigger budgets including a mega rich side like PSG. It was an absolutely extraordinary achievement, easily the match of Leicester.

I'm still not fully convinced going back two seasons is particularly relevant, but if that's all you got then feel free to cling to it for all it's worth. The standard of the league is a non sequitur, even if the league is poorer so are Montpelier.

This has nothing to do with me giving credit to Leicester, I already have done in my initial post. What they achieved is fantastic but, and this is the crucial point, it is not unique. It is not the greatest sporting story ever told. And the only way you can even begin to claim it is, is by denigrating the achievement of others - be they Montpelier, Kaiserslautern or whomever. In fact the latter got promoted and won the league straight away, do you agree that is a superior achievement? Be specific - a yes or no would suffice.

 

[Pagnell]

You talk about me clinging to a point after flogging the number "14" like a decomposing horse?

I'm done with this. I should have reminded myself before my last post that this is what you do. You would argue the sky was red purely because someone else pointed out it was blue.

 

[markwwfc1992]

You're a persistent WUM I'll give you that.

 

[GodsGift]

Who have Scotland got in the Euros?

 

[Skinner]

Who is it