Falcao

[Christian Slater]

By stature do you mean the massive revenue disparity which has increased over the past few seasons? Liverpool was equally as famous/massive/etc. when they first missed CL football. Now, thanks to the good folks at Chevrolet and Addidas, perennial Champions League opt-outs like Falcao can collect 300k/week at Old Trafford AND have the luxury of a few mid-week rests.

Revenue relects stature.

 

[thespus]

I was making the point that the revenue disparity between yourselves and Liverpool has vastly increased in the past decade. Had SAF retired years ago and United finished 7th the season Liverpool first missed CL football, the ability to attract the Falcao's and Di Maria's of this world would have been much less. The timing of losing CL football, rather than the stature of the clubs at the time, is more relevant to the discussions of attracting world class footballers. 100k wages were the 250k of that era, thus United's financial machismo wouldn't have landed them world class players as easily as it does today. Players would have opted for similar wages and CL football elsewhere.

 

[Christian Slater]

I was making the point that the revenue disparity between yourselves and Liverpool has vastly increased in the past decade. Had SAF retired years ago and United finished 7th the season Liverpool first missed CL football, the ability to attract the Falcao's and Di Maria's of this world would have been much less. The timing of losing CL football, rather than the stature of the clubs at the time, is more relevant to the discussions of attracting world class footballers. 100k wages were the 250k of that era, thus United's financial machismo wouldn't have landed them world class players as easily as it does today. Players would have opted for similar wages and CL football elsewhere.

But that's a hypothetical based on United not doing something they did. United have built the brand of the club like no other.

 

[thespus]

But that's a hypothetical based on United not doing something they did. United have built the brand of the club like no other.

The brand of United was not anywhere near as powerful in 2004 as it is today for a variety of reasons. Manchester United couldn't have built that "brand" in 2004 because the commercial opportunities did not exist then. Liverpool, as massive of a club as they were then, couldn't negate the lack of CL football with corporate buying power. I'm not implying anything negative about Manchester United, just that their pull without CL football in 2004 would have been significantly less than their pull this past summer. Obviously the business side of the club has done brilliantly to be able to offer record wages with or without CL football.

The hypothesis is that prior generation's Falcao and Di Maria would not have signed for a 2004 Manchester United without CL football because the wage disparities between top clubs isn't the same as it is today. The 2015 Manchester Clubs and Chelsea have a wage superiority that did not exist when Liverpool first began missing the CL. My initial point was that comparing Liverpool's ability to sign players when they first missed CL football to Manchester United's this past summer is not a worthwhile one. The commercial aspect of the game has changed the balance of power significantly.

 

[Christian Slater]

United were a powerhouse in 2004, they had the best deals available at the time. They competed in the same market as everyone else a blew everyone away.

You're basically arguing that United wouldn't be as successful now and able to attract players if they didn't go on to have another decade of success. Of they wouldn't, they're reaping the rewards of that now.

 

[thespus]

United were a powerhouse in 2004, they had the best deals available at the time. They competed in the same market as everyone else a blew everyone away.

You're basically arguing that United wouldn't be as successful now and able to attract players if they didn't go on to have another decade of success. Of they wouldn't, they're reaping the rewards of that now.

Never-mind. That's not at all what I'm saying. Just because I wasn't fellating United's brand doesn't make it some ABU speak. Being the powerhouse in 2004 was a different landscape than being the powerhouse in 2014 (i.e. wage gaps are significantly larger due to the massive commercial revenue increase and new TV deals in the past couple years).Thus comparing Liverpool's post-CL fallout a decade ago isn't comparable to United being able to sign top players last summer. I'm not arguing anything -- just pointing out the futility of a United fan asking Liverpool why Liverpool couldn't sign players when they first missed the CL over a decade ago and using United's 2014 as what Liverpool should have done.

 

[Christian Slater]

I think the poster was referring to Liverpool's recent absence from the CL, not a decade ago.

 

[smat]

Played for the under 21s last night. Didn't score, got subbed.

 

[JimJams]

Apparently Mandzukic isn't getting on with Simeone, and there's rumours he'll be off in the summer. So Falcao back to Atletico?

 

[Mr Bauer]

Apparently Mandzukic isn't getting on with Simeone, and there's rumours he'll be off in the summer. So Falcao back to Atletico?

Are you thinking a return there could reignite the player?

 

[Whitechapel]

Played for the under 21s last night. Didn't score, got subbed.

At least he's got consistency dialled.

 

[mistermagic]

Falcao will be fine in Ligue 1. Well he won't but Simeone is after Cavani and I think it's vital he moves on as he's not even played as a CF with us.
You never know, maybe United will buy Falcao...

 

[Camborne Gills]

Falcao will be fine in Ligue 1. Well he won't but Simeone is after Cavani and I think it's vital he moves on as he's not even played as a CF with us.
You never know, maybe United will buy Falcao...

Falcao will be fine in League 1 (corrected for you)

 

[mistermagic]

Tbh I think he'd struggle there...

 

[Camborne Gills]

Wouldn't make out starting line up that's for sure

 

[Toffee_Joe]

Just me who thinks he will be fine next year? He won't be at United. It takes about a year for someone to come back fully from a cruciate ligament and Van Gal has ensured his confidence is totally shot.

 

[hodge]

Falcao will be fine in League 1 (corrected for you)

Yeah I'm sure given our budget we could get him on loan.....

 

[merseyboyred]

Just me who thinks he will be fine next year? He won't be at United. It takes about a year for someone to come back fully from a cruciate ligament and Van Gal has ensured his confidence is totally shot.

Some never do.

 

[Stevencc]

He couldn't even control the ball for most of last night, in an under 21s match no less. I can't see him ever getting back near to the levels he used to operate at, no matter who he ends up playing for.

 

[Toffee_Joe]

Some never do.

True. Not saying he will be the best striker in the world again but I think he has a few more 20 goal seasons in him.

 

[thespus]

He's a striker who was never superbly talented bar his instinctual finishing - he didn't/doesn't possess any other outstanding traits. When you miss a considerable amount of time, I imagine it's easy to lose that habit. He is having to come much deeper in this current United side than he has ever been asked to before. He is a shadow of his former self, but the impotence of LVG's system is also a major factor.

 

[Stevencc]

He's a striker who was never superbly talented bar his instinctual finishing - he didn't/doesn't possess any other outstanding traits. When you miss a considerable amount of time, I imagine it's easy to lose that habit. He is having to come much deeper in this current United side than he has ever been asked to before. He is a shadow of his former self, but the impotence of LVG's system is also a major factor.

Very true. At no point in his career though was his control, dribbling, pace etc as poor as right now. He was never lightning fast but he could take players on, I remember a goal against Barcelona where he showed a nice turn of pace from the halfway line. His control in the box was always decent as well - that seems to have deserted him. I put his poor finishing down to confidence/rustiness more than anything but nearly every other facet of his game seems to have declined since the injury and I don't think a change of system will suddenly see them return to their old levels.

 

[Whitechapel]

What is it with potential legends moving to MUFC and becoming shite? First RvP, now Falcao.

Mata had potential too but he would get more exercise being a ball boy.


EDIT: This post comes across a little antagonistic, this does happen to other clubs too.

 

[ArmchairDiehard]

RVP was excellent in his first season, and had Sir Alex not retired he would probably have continued scoring goals.

I don't really think Mata has been given enough game time under LVG and hasn't really been able to play in his natural position.

 

[mistermagic]

Mata has looked one of United's better players this season. No idea why LVG keeps playing Fellaini second striker...

 

[Stevencc]

Mata has looked one of United's better players this season. No idea why LVG keeps playing Fellaini second striker...

I think he is thinking "Premier League = physical, must play bloody big bastard up front". I'd rather see Mata though because, as you say, when he has played he has performed well. Fellaini has his place, but it shouldn't be in an attacking position at the expense of much superior creativity nearly every game.

 

[SALTIRE]

True. Not saying he will be the best striker in the world again but I think he has a few more 20 goal seasons in him.

Yeah that type of injury is very hard to get back to your best with apparently and age isn't on Falcao's side now.

 

[JimJams]

Felliaini should make an effective plan b, but the type of football played when he's on the pitch should not be the style you set out to play from the start of games. Unless LVG likes Stokes former style of play. But they could fucking defend.

 

[Pyeman]

Felliaini should make an effective plan b, but the type of football played when he's on the pitch should not be the style you set out to play from the start of games. Unless LVG likes Stokes former style of play. But they could fucking defend.

I don't really remember Everton using Fellaini in the way United seem to want to use him now, yet they seemed to use him successfully. I just don't understand why all of a sudden Fellaini automatically seems to bring with him desperate, long ball football.

 

[GodsGift]

Everton used him like that quite a lot.