JPT & B teams.

[iWomble]

And one other point. None of this should be taking place with behind-the-scenes manoeuvring but right out in the open in plain view. By the time these things usually emerge from what used to be smoke-filled rooms. the deals are done and the fans are screwed again. It doesn't matter to me at all whether we phrased things badly in our minutes or what other clubs think of us for doing so. I'll live with my club being called self-righteous by people* who don't have the bollocks to publicly stand up themselves or are sniffing the cash. It's brought the issue centre stage and gives time for those opposed to make sure their own boards know what they think and make sure they squash it.

* not aimed at anyone posting here, I hasten to add

 

[That Fat Centre Half]

I think there might be reason to tie them together, negotiation is a 2 way thing and if you aren't flexible you tend to get dictated too eventually.

I think it's pretty clear the way the tide is going, something is going to happen eventually, there is too much money sloshing around the Premier League, too
much talent being wasted by them and the FA have already made significant rumblings that they want changes made to football in this country. So it's a way of going with that tide but within your defined parameters that you dictate. Being offensive rather than constantly saying no to everything.

Im really not a fan of B teams at all so I hope this doesn't come across as me advocating for them but there is only so long you can be the blocker before the blocker gets removed.

 

[iWomble]

I do get the pragmatism v idealism argument, but I'd phrase it the other way round - there's only so much ground you can give before you don't have any left. The only realistic way to defend the national game and the place it has in society is to start drawing lines in the sand, and it should really have started with EPPP.

If there is too much money and unused talent sloshing around the Premiership then the FA can take action against that. It's the bed they made when they set it up and they can deal with it by setting a maximum number of player that clubs can have on their books, not by pushing viable, local and historic clubs which are important to their community further down the pecking order and enshrining inequality further into the structure of football.

 

[shoddycollins]

I do get the pragmatism v idealism argument, but I'd phrase it the other way round - there's only so much ground you can give before you don't have any left. The only realistic way to defend the national game and the place it has in society is to start drawing lines in the sand, and it should really have started with EPPP.

Yeah, the problem with the B-team's in the League proposal is you know it'll come up season after season. Most of the PL clubs want it, the FA want it and the FL want it, they're used to getting their way, and when they don't they resort to painting their opponents as enemies of progress who don't want English football to progress. To be honest I don't want it to progress if all that means is that the national team get to the quarter finals of the next World Cup while the Premier League fends off it's international competitors in becoming the world's richest sporting competition.

If the FL clubs say this season that they'll consent to B-teams in the JPT in return for an assurance that it goes no further, then all that means is that next time it comes up, the FL clubs have nothing to bargain with and those who want B-teams to go ahead will claim that those assurances were given by their predecessors who had no authority to give such assurances, and it'll start with 'we should at least re-open the debate'.

 

[That Fat Centre Half]

I just think that the FL clubs have got to come up with something as a means of being proactive and present an alternative rather than just saying no to everything, that's a dangerous position to be in.

Perhaps B teams in the JPT is a part of that.

I likewise have reservations that it will just open up further debate down the line but the FL needs to present an alternative.

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

As mentioned earlier, we're going backwards ten years to the days of mass administrations if our integrity deprived clubs are accepting generous financial payments for this farce. Just when administrations in football started to die down your usual suspects who are widely renowned for getting the buckets out when things go wrong will throw money at a stupid short-termist attempt to climb the pyramid, real football, real fans my arse.

The sad thing is if you put it to the fans to vote, a majority will see the pound signs and think it benefits their club because they can sign a 20 goal striker with that extra money.

 

[Gladders]

I just think that the FL clubs have got to come up with something as a means of being proactive and present an alternative rather than just saying no to everything, that's a dangerous position to be in.

Perhaps B teams in the JPT is a part of that.

I likewise have reservations that it will just open up further debate down the line but the FL needs to present an alternative.

The alternative is no B teams full stop, thats all the football league clubs need to argue and if they bitch that players aren't being developed then tell them to stop signing so many players and start letting the lower league clubs have them and sign them when they are ready for the premier league

 

[iWomble]

http://www.lutontown.co.uk/news/article/luton-town-club-statement-b-teams-jpt-league-3-2310145.aspx

"Clubs only voted to allow FL to explore the possibility" and it would have been imprudent not to do so "given the potential supplementary advantages this may also introduce." An actual vote then to finalise proposals, which is *exactly* what we said.

Written I assume by the same indignant Gary Sweet who yesterday was saying that "AFCW have got it wrong in their statement. No such vote took place two weeks ago."

 

[womble76]

I think this clears things up. pretty much what we said all alonhttp://www.leytonorient.com/news/article/football-league-football-league-trophy-2313252.aspx#cwVbTv71xLXivHqz.99g.

 

[BigDaveCUFC]

I notice on BBC today Tottenham are trying to make sure the FA don't select Kane for the U21 Championships as they want him rested in the summer.

this is why the B team sh*te is a waste of time, is no point finding ideas for building up good young English players by shafting over the lower leagues if all the top flight clubs do is shaft England when they develop.

the top flight attitude of England a long-distance 2nd is why the Lower Leagues really need to just claim these ideas as utterly worthless anyway.

 

[TimeyWimey]

I don't see the big problem. The lack of genuine world class English talent is clearly down to the lack of game time these youngsters are getting at the top level, and what better than a JPT game once a month for them to develop? The fact the likes of Man City are filling their youth teams with foreign players, almost encouraged by EPPP that the FA and Premier League implemented, can't possibly come into it.

 

[LadyWomble]

Even if there was such a thing as a 100% guaranteed contract, would I trust the football authorities? No, never in a million years. The FA are spineless and toothless, having abrogated their power and responsibilities to the prem when they created that monster. They try and flex their puny muscles by attempting to coerce the clubs lower down, just like the FL do if they get the chance. When everyone knew Chester were going down the tubes, the FL told the Conference they had to accept them or they would stop the 2 up 2 down arrangement. We all know what happened.

For me, the subject of premiershit B teams in lower leagues or our cup competitions shouldn't be taken in isolation. FIFA - that other paragon of propriety - has finally woken up to English clubs at all levels using the loan system as a way round the transfer window and in future clubs will only be able to make 4 loan signings a season, which must be within transfer windows. What will Chelsea do with their 30 players loaned out all over Europe? What about having a pliant nursery or feeder club in the FL? I can't find (or be bothered checking for!) links but at the time the L3 proposals were published, there was certainly an appetite for this amongst prem clubs. That's my fear - B teams in the tinpot trophy or a L3, detestable as they are in principle, are a trojan horse to soften us up for something even worse.

 

[Sire Speirite VIII]

This can't happen simply can't and I hare how it's got so many supporters f@cking pathetic the lot of you. My old man has said he's gonna go round next home game askin who agrees with this and spark anyone out what thinks its good.

 

[AdamStag]

This can't happen simply can't and I hare how it's got so many supporters f@cking pathetic the lot of you. My old man has said he's gonna go round next home game askin who agrees with this and spark anyone out what thinks its good.

Sounds a responsible way of gaining the FA's interest on the matter. What do you lot do over there?

 

[Wombletom]

If we let PL B teams in the JPT, then sure as eggs are eggs, they will end up in a B league. Much to our absolute disdain of the idea.

The FA once said that my club couldn't move to Milton Keynes. That decision was challenged, and we all know what happen.
Decision are made to be changed.

I guarantee you now, if we allow B teams in the JPT next season, then within 5 years we'll have a league involving B teams.

Why should the lower leagues be responsible for fixing the problems of the premiershite? Haven't they just got a £58 billion tv deal?
Let them use some of that money to sort the problems that they created themselves in the 1st place...
... And I don't mean, by throwing a pittance at us lower league clubs in the form of bribery.

 

[BigDaveCUFC]

Your completely right Wombletom, and its probably why Wimbledon are only one to say no right now as they know the b*llocks and lies from the top.

but I'd still question myself why bother here when prem clubs are now stopping U21 players go to the U21 competition...........is no point developing people now when the top clubs ditch England once they mature.

 

[LadyWomble]

but I'd still question myself why bother here when prem clubs are now stopping U21 players go to the U21 competition...........is no point developing people now when the top clubs ditch England once they mature.

I think you already know the answer to that one ;-) The FA want to improve the lot of the England team, providing it doesn't upset their masters in the premiershit of course. The PL and their clubs, on the other hand, care only about their 'product', money and world domination. They couldn't give a flying one about anything else, certainly not any national sides.

 

[Tom_CUFC]

Well, we're backing it:

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/Cam...-George-keen/story-26126399-detail/story.html

To say I'm disappointed is an understatement.

 

[shoddycollins]

Carlisle's official statement says

No formal proposals were tabled and no formal vote taken. Instead, League 1 and 2 clubs were asked to indicate whether they were content to see The Football League progress the matter, which would include discussions with the Premier League and Football Association, so that clubs can consider a full proposal at a future point.
Read more at http://www.carlisleunited.co.uk/new...-discussions-2313247.aspx#KY5gib4ola2v1yCw.99

Still... the opportunity was there to nip it in the bud right away, and it wasn't taken

 

[Wombletom]

That is a truly horrible statement from Jez George at Cambridge.
Way to sell us lower league clubs down the fucking river.

 

[shoddycollins]

The News and Star have an opinion to share on it.
http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/carlis...td-should-fight-this-paint-pot-plan-1.1197518

 

[Laker]

That is a truly horrible statement from Jez George at Cambridge.
Way to sell us lower league clubs down the fucking river.

And surprising, I'm pretty pissed off with that. Jez is a keen advocate of youth development but I'm staggered he'd be prepared to give this to Premiership clubs.

 

[BigDaveCUFC]

I was going to post that today Shoddy, was a good article attacking all boards for backing it, he always writes good pieces doe our press guy.

 

[AdamStag]

What the hell is the cambridge chairman talking about?

Does he know anything?

 

[Wombletom]

What the hell is the cambridge chairman talking about?

Does he know anything?

It would appear not. Did you not notice the ££ signs in his eyes where his pupils should be.

 

[Sire Speirite VIII]

Shameful from Cambridge

 

[LadyWomble]

Sadly, as Jez George seems a generally good guy and I like Cambridge as a club, I'm not really surprised. Whilst in the Conference, he campaigned strongly for better funding for youth sides BUT only for former FL clubs - remember us being a tad pissed off at the time. Also, if reports from Luton fans are true, the recent FL meeting of L2 clubs voted on 3 up 3 down between L2 and the Conference and only Wimbledon and Luton voted in favour.

Very impressed though with Carlisle's local rag's journo on this subject. Knowledgeable and passionate with a beautifully acerbic style that pulls no punches. Really good to see that not all local papers have gone to pot.

 

[Wombletom]

LadyWomble.... I do hope you're not having a dig at our local paper. Lol

You'll get told off by Erik.

 

[Wombletom]

Statement from Northampton trust.

http://www.ntfctrust.co.uk/newsdetail.aspx?id=144

Very poor effort.

 

[Meadow]

Excellent piece of writing from that Carlisle journo.