Man United dressing room leaks "squad left shocked by Mourinho’s personal nature of criticism...'

[Nilsson]

He isn't.

This time last season he was the manager of the Champions after winning yet another title with little fuss. One bad season means he's not "the coach he once was"?

 

[Nath]

Jose will be fine.

Rooney is definitely not starting Saturday. He was shite again and the fact Rashford was rested ahead of him says everything. He doesn't have the physical capabilities to play at the top level. He'll do a job in midfield against a mediocre side. Any bit of pressure/quality - he can't cope.

 

[SALTIRE]

This time last season he was the manager of the Champions after winning yet another title with little fuss. One bad season means he's not "the coach he once was"?

I think its more about whether he still has the ability to turn things around when it goes pear-shaped as it did at Madrid and Chelsea, and I think these are justifiable questions.

 

[JimJams]

Jose isn't what he was once percieved to be, certainly.

 

[Nilsson]

I think its more about whether he still has the ability to turn things around when it goes pear-shaped as it did at Madrid and Chelsea, and I think these are justifiable questions.

He's got questions to answer for sure (as he did when he returned to Chelsea, plenty of people thought he wrong to go back yet he won a PL title and League Cup) but to say for certain that "he isn't" "the coach he once was" is hyperbole for me.

 

[Avatar]

the charge with Mourinho has always been that he has a small club mentality, that he needs to be in conflict with everyone (this is why Madrid kicked him out), that he will win things but destroy the club. He is not a builder, he doesn't leave his mark or his legacy.

He's like taking steroids.... strong in the short term, ball cancer in the long term.

 

[Nilsson]

the charge with Mourinho has always been that he has a small club mentality

lol

that he needs to be in conflict with everyone (this is why Madrid kicked him out), that he will win things but destroy the club.

You're re-writing history.

He didn't destroy Porto, or Chelsea the first time around, or Inter, or Madrid.

Jose isn't what he was once percieved to be, certainly.

He was perceived as a manager who doesn't last long at a club but wins things while he's there. Has that really changed after one shitty season?

 

[Avatar]

lol


You're re-writing history.

He didn't destroy Porto, or Chelsea the first time around, or Inter, or Madrid.


He was perceived as a manager who doesn't last long at a club but wins things while he's there. Has that really changed after one shitty season?

uhhh.... Chelsea were in complete free fall, they sacked him because of it. He blamed his players, the refs, his staff, but never took responsibility. The (once) best player in the league has never recovered, Mourinho called his physio a "whore" in front of the entire playing and back room staff and send her sexually harassing messages on her cell phone. He lost the dressing room.

Inter dropped from the champions league spots and havent won a title since Mourinho. The players are all shadows of what they were.

The president of Madrid called Mourinho's time a disaster, said he didn't have the character to manage a big club and that he damaged the brand of the club. He said Mourinho was unable to handle big pressure and that his poking the eye of cancer stricken Tito Villanova was disgusting. He lost the dressing room.

I'm not sure what you're on about, he destroys the clubs he goes to.

 

[Pagnell]

This time last season he was the manager of the Champions after winning yet another title with little fuss. One bad season means he's not "the coach he once was"?

A deliberate over simplification on your part. It's not just one bad season, it's accumulation of numerous factors, some touched on in Avatar's post above. The net result is that players clearly don't respect him in the same way they used to and he doesn't have the same persona. Can he get that back? Possibly, we shall have to see. I certainly hope not.

5-6 years ago when he left Inter for Real most people would have called him as being the best manager in the world, albeit through gritted teeth for some. I doubt anyone would now, or certainly not with any confidence. So no, he isn't the coach he once was.

 

[JimJams]

He was perceived as a manager who doesn't last long at a club but wins things while he's there. Has that really changed after one shitty season?

He was percieved to be 'The special one' and he believed it. Now he doesn't believe he is so special and openly said. He was perceived to be the best manager around and someone who could not fail. He has since failed the expectatiosn in different jobs and has lost that aura.

Has the perception that he wins things changed? No. But that's not what I said in the first place, as being able to win things wasn't the only perception people have/had of him. Lots of managers have won things and can win things, he was set apart for being more than that.

 

[smat]

Mourinho obviously isn't the manager he once was. After joining Porto, he won seven league titles and two Champions Leagues in eight years or something mad. In the six years since that period ended, he has won two league titles and no Champions Leagues. Nothing to sniff at (and I'd love a league title) but objectively, he's not dominating competitions like he used to.

Part of that is that football has changed (and managers don't tend to last longer than a decade at the very top level for this reason, with a few clear exceptions), but imo the most important part is the hold JoMo used to have over players. Porto, Inter and Chelsea 2004-6's players would have run through brick walls for him. He hasn't been able to recreate anything close to those bonds since, as evidenced by horrendous dressing room problems at Real and Chelsea the second time - and bloody hell, it seems to be happening already at United. Maybe because players are more cosseted than they used to be, and less inclined to hero worship their boss? I think his increasing grumpiness (didn't even do a press conference post Northampton game AFAIK?) is because he knows it.

 

[PDS]

The problem Jose faces (and he faced at Madrid), is that he thrived at the 'challenger club', the 'everybody is against us' siege mentality. The way he always spun the line that referees were against Chelsea in his first spell was an example of that. He used that to get players running through 10 brick walls for him; and it justified his defensive style against the bigger sides (Fans and players bought into it as a result).

However, he has zero excuse to create that mentality at United, or when he was at Madrid, and similarly at Chelsea last season (Three teams who are renowned for getting the run of the green, shall we say). He has been given everything financially and is expected to win and win in style. I'm not sure if he knows how to adapt his approach to create such a bond in the dressing room when it's clear the world is not against him and his team. As a result he's scapegoating wherever he goes (Casillas, Mata, Schweinsteiger) in an attempt to create a core group that follow him; which seems to be further ostracising many of his players.

 

[Nilsson]

uhhh.... Chelsea were in complete free fall, they sacked him because of it. He blamed his players, the refs, his staff, but never took responsibility. The (once) best player in the league has never recovered, Mourinho called his physio a "whore" in front of the entire playing and back room staff and send her sexually harassing messages on her cell phone. He lost the dressing room.

I said "Chelsea the first time around"

Inter dropped from the champions league spots and havent won a title since Mourinho. The players are all shadows of what they were

Mourinho left Inter held in the highest regard as a treble winner (not a bad legacy btw). Then they hired Rafa Benitez who didn't do a very good job. You're blaming Mourinho for other managers failures.

The president of Madrid called Mourinho's time a disaster, said he didn't have the character to manage a big club and that he damaged the brand of the club. He said Mourinho was unable to handle big pressure and that his poking the eye of cancer stricken Tito Villanova was disgusting. He lost the dressing room.

Madrid is a crazy club, I think it's harsh to criticize any manager for it not working out for them there, he did well to break Barca's dominance and win the title with record points, goals scored, goal difference etc.

 

[SALTIRE]

He didn't break Barca's dominance though. He got Madrid focused in one season out of three then the players went into revolt the following year and the same happened in his second spell with Chelsea.

I read elsewhere someone saying he's never been in love with football and I think that's a good point; what he seems to thrive on is the gamesmanship and psychology which feeds his ego when he gets it right.

 

[Nilsson]

He didn't break Barca's dominance though.

He beat Pep's great Barca side to the title (in style I might add), I'd say that's breaking their dominance.

 

[SALTIRE]

He beat Pep's great Barca side to the title (in style I might add), I'd say that's breaking their dominance.

And I wouldn't, doing it once doesn't end a dominant spell imo. Barca have continued said dominance in the league apart from when Atletico pipped them.

 

[Nilsson]

And I wouldn't, doing it once doesn't end a dominant spell imo. Barca have continued said dominance in the league apart from when Atletico pipped them.

Break doesn't = end.

 

[SALTIRE]

Break doesn't = end.

Ok then, but they should have won more leagues under him than they did if he was to be regarded as a success there even with Guardiola and that Barca side, imo.

 

[Nilsson]

Ok then, but they should have won more leagues under him than they did if he was to be regarded as a success there even with Guardiola and that Barca side, imo.

I'm not saying his spell there was a great success, but to say he "destroyed" Real Madrid is a bit silly for me, like any one manager could do that to RM anyway.

 

[SALTIRE]

I'm not saying his spell there was a great success, but to say he "destroyed" Real Madrid is a bit silly for me, like any one manager could do that to RM anyway.

If anything Madrid destroyed his confidence and is maybe why he now has a short fuse when it comes to defending his players, after the shenanigans the Madrid guys (particularly the Portuguese ones too I may add) got up to with him.

 

[Skinner]

He beat Pep's great Barca side to the title (in style I might add), I'd say that's breaking their dominance.

Correct me if I'm wrong, (I tried to search but it was TFF) but,

Wasn't that my argument against you when Chelsea appointed Mourinho the second time around and you were saying he ruined clubs? Sorry if it wasn't, but I'm 90% sure it was.

 

[Nilsson]

Correct me if I'm wrong, (I tried to search but it was TFF) but,

Wasn't that my argument against you when Chelsea appointed Mourinho the second time around and you were saying he ruined clubs? Sorry if it wasn't, but I'm 90% sure it was.

I don't remember what I posted on here last week let alone 3 years ago.

 

[Skinner]

I don't remember what I posted on here last week let alone 3 years ago.

A sign that you post too much

 

[Avatar]

I said "Chelsea the first time around"

No he doesn't destroy clubs!
Well what about this example
I meant other than that time.

 

[Nilsson]

A sign that you post too much

A sign that what I post isn't worth remembering.

No he doesn't destroy clubs!
Well what about this example
I meant other than that time.

So now you agree that he didn't destroy Chelsea the first time around, Inter or Madrid and that you were indeed re-writing history?

 

[The Paranoid Pineapple]

Always think it's a bad sign when managers start singling out players for public criticism. It's unnecessary and doesn't engender trust or respect (have a quiet word with them, give them a bit of a bollocking behind closed doors if needs be, make some not so subtle hint - if you can't get your message across in any of these ways then I'd suggest that's a failure on the managers part). I'm not sure what's happened with Mourinho in this regard. He used to be rather good at deflecting criticism and protecting his players but he now seems to be the only one who's not culpable when his team underperforms. Perhaps players are losing faith in his methods (understandable given that they appear altogether less effective these days)...

 

[G-Dragon]

Mourinho already dragging the Man United name through the mud. Can't see Mourinho at United for more than 2 seasons tbh.

 

[Nilsson]

Enjoyed this from Jamie Carragher, certainly disproves the myth that Ferguson never publicly criticised his players.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ar...-players-public-Sir-Alex-Ferguson-did-it.html

 

[Red]

A deliberate over simplification on your part. It's not just one bad season, it's accumulation of numerous factors, some touched on in Avatar's post above. The net result is that players clearly don't respect him in the same way they used to and he doesn't have the same persona. Can he get that back? Possibly, we shall have to see. I certainly hope not.

5-6 years ago when he left Inter for Real most people would have called him as being the best manager in the world, albeit through gritted teeth for some. I doubt anyone would now, or certainly not with any confidence. So no, he isn't the coach he once was.

To be fair, I think he's just desperately hoping that they're not on a hat trick of flop managers.