Nobody needs to worry about relegation

[loz]

Not sure what you mean. It leaves room for 4, but that space would only be filled by 2 therefore two more are needed.

What a wonderful reply and it makes sense when the efl motto is "why make things simple when you can complicate matters"(sorry, don't know what it is in latin). Being a Yorkshire simpleton, I thought they may just relegate 2 from div 1 and allow 4 up as usual. They could then allow 4 into div 2 and so on through the leagues, or is that what you have said.?

 

[Gladders]

Pardon my maths but if 2 are kicked out, 2 are relegated; doesn't that leave room for 4?

2 kicked out of lge 1 and 2 relegated to lge 2. 4 teams promoted from lge 2 to fill those 4 gaps. As the EFL is 2 teams short from the 2 kicked out that more than likely won't be allowed to re-enter into lge 2 means that with 2 teams don't get relegated from lge 2 or 4 teams get promoted from non-league.

The most likely outcome would be no relegation from lge 2.

 

[loz]

Dragged what out? Everyone keeps blaming Bury but not one fault at the EFL? You are being very deluded. The EFL arent fit for purpose. At moment every club is one bad owner away from being in our and Boltons situation.

Agree with this one. The efl's handling of the Notts County affair and Leeds under Bates and Cellino were totally inept. To make things worse, they appear to have learnt nothing. Thank goodness we have never had a bad owner at Bradford.

 

[Chris FGR]

Why not just let Bolton and Bury pull out of league 1 and give themselves time to get sorted ready for when they're 'relegated' into league 2 for next season. Surely that would give them enough time to sort out takeovers etc and seems less messy.

 

[Gladders]

For those that blame the EFL and I agree it is their fault sign this petition

https://twitter.com/x/status/1165960499017768960

But also read Andy Holts thread on twitter this week. Basically the EFLs rules for ownership are not fit for purpose and its time we had an independent regulator on it. Andy twitter thread today was about Notts Counties situation last season, luckily their owner stayed in until he found the right buyer rather than just running. But Harvey even told Andy that the EFL have no ability to interfere in clubs ownership as voted for by the clubs chairman during the last review.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1165904373198856192

 

[RLC]

Why not just let Bolton and Bury pull out of league 1 and give themselves time to get sorted ready for when they're 'relegated' into league 2 for next season. Surely that would give them enough time to sort out takeovers etc and seems less messy.

If they had no income for the next twelve months they would be liquidated, and would then have to reform and re-apply at the bottom of the pyramid. So I don't think it would work in practice.

 

[Greenacres]

The real suffering for me is to all of the creditors who have been ripped off and those losing their jobs. The fans are the club and if the business goes bust, they start up again. They'll still have their club and they'll work their way back. Might not be as easy for those local businesses.

I remember a few years ago when Leeds sort of went bust but didn't, there was mention of all the people and organisations who lost out and were left severely out of pocket. One of them was the St John's Ambulance, who provided first aid cover on match days, they got next to bugger all of what they were due. The irony was that had Leeds been liquidated and their assets (ground, players, etc) been sold off then the creditors might have received close to what they were owed.

 

[Gladders]

Nothing will change until the FA does something about the money in football, the Premier league has caused most of the issues in football currently happening. A club getting £100m for losing every game and being relegated helps nobody but the rich players and agents taking all the money.

Until the FA/Government steps in, the EFL will continue to say they can't do anything and the very owners themselves are not going to change anything as most of them are like Steve Dale and not Andy Holt, they see it as a business first not a community asset for the fans. They are all chasing the gold pot at the end of the rainbow that is the Premier league and it doesn't matter that happens if they fail as most of them have no interest in the local community.

 

[The_Boss]

Shocking and awful what Bolton and Bury are going through, really really hope there is some sort of last minute saviour for them both.

However, if they do go bump, and as has been mentioned already there would be a very strange dynamic in the last few months of the season for those sides with nothing to play for. What I would hope is that for those clubs that do have perilous financial situations of there own (MTFC!) that they take the opportunity to get themselves in better shape without the threat of relegation hanging over them. If it comes to January and there is no chance of promotion, don't sign anyone else, just get through the season and trim the squad down if possible. It will help everybody come next season.

 

[AdamStag]

Dragged what out? Everyone keeps blaming Bury but not one fault at the EFL? You are being very naive. The EFL arent fit for purpose. At moment every club is one bad owner away from being in our and Boltons situation.

P.s Mansfield bottled it and they still would have bottled it with our 12 point deduction as another team would have took their place.

Correct.

Mansfield shouldn’t have gone up, we had our own chance for flitcroft did what flitcroft does and choked - one of the bigger failures I’ve seen in my time at Mansfield with the budget provided to him

Ultimately bury went up despite dale as mentioned, and the ones I know in Manchester all knew it was a hollow promotion with what was likely to come anyway.

 

[Chris FGR]

If they had no income for the next twelve months they would be liquidated, and would then have to reform and re-apply at the bottom of the pyramid. So I don't think it would work in practice.

But as it stands, the EFL are forcing rushed takeovers through by god knows who, meaning that even if they somehow get it done in time all both clubs will do is limp along on minus points, possibly with yet more charlatans/con men in control, getting pumped every week.

This can't be good for the competition, or the young lads at Bolton for example.. doing it like this would mean both clubs have the pressure taken off them, knowing they don't have to rush into takeovers and can properly vet prospective buyers, or pay players until next July, by which time they'll need to go to the EFL AGM and prove they're fit to take their places in league 2.

Both can do fundraising events, play friendlies etc in the mean time, and the EFL grants can keep their academies going for this season.

 

[Gladders]

But as it stands, the EFL are forcing rushed takeovers through by god knows who, meaning that even if they somehow get it done in time all both clubs will do is limp along on minus points, possibly with yet more charlatans/con men in control, getting pumped every week.

This can't be good for the competition, or the young lads at Bolton for example.. doing it like this would mean both clubs have the pressure taken off them, knowing they don't have to rush into takeovers and can properly vet prospective buyers, or pay players until next July, by which time they'll need to go to the EFL AGM and prove they're fit to take their places in league 2.

Both can do fundraising events, play friendlies etc in the mean time, and the EFL grants can keep their academies going for this season.

Most clubs biggest income is from match days if a Club has no fixtures for a year they aren't going to make any money, meaning whoever takes over has to put even more money in they already want.

Who do they play friendlies against? Everyone else is playing lge football. Not operating for a season just would not work, unless the new owners were prepared to lose even more money and given the takeovers are already taking a long time I don't see that happening either.

 

[Chris FGR]

However, if they do go bump, and as has been mentioned already there would be a very strange dynamic in the last few months of the season for those sides with nothing to play for. What I would hope is that for those clubs that do have perilous financial situations of there own (MTFC!) that they take the opportunity to get themselves in better shape without the threat of relegation hanging over them. If it comes to January and there is no chance of promotion, don't sign anyone else, just get through the season and trim the squad down if possible. It will help everybody come next season.

It's a big reason why, as I have stated previously, that this idea of promotion and relegation at the bottom of league 2 needs to be scrapped for the good of the game. The gap has already grown and it is now a tough step up. Shut up shop and allow all league 2 clubs to run themselves sensibly without the threat of relegation, job losses or loss of academy funding. Teams in the bottom half especially will be able to give a lot of young players more chances in the second half of the season, which is good for English football in general.

Those outside the league can then also cut their cloth accordingly, so those clubs wont go bust chasing the dream of league football either, which has been a big problem in non league in recent years.

 

[loz]

season for those sides with nothing to play for

Any player who thinks like that should be released

 

[Indian Dan]

Why should famous clubs with a rich league history who have just happened to have hit hard times - again, mostly through rogue owners - not have the opportunity to regain their league status.

You only have to look back a few seasons to see how clubs like Luton and Lincoln have made a success of their regained league status.

 

[loz]

It's a big reason why, as I have stated previously, that this idea of promotion and relegation at the bottom of league 2 needs to be scrapped for the good of the game. The gap has already grown and it is now a tough step up. Shut up shop and allow all league 2 clubs to run themselves sensibly without the threat of relegation, job losses or loss of academy funding. Teams in the bottom half especially will be able to give a lot of young players more chances in the second half of the season, which is good for English football in general.

Those outside the league can then also cut their cloth accordingly, so those clubs wont go bust chasing the dream of league football either, which has been a big problem in non league in recent years.

Did you feel like that 4 years ago?

 

[RLC]

Both can do fundraising events, play friendlies etc in the mean time, and the EFL grants can keep their academies going for this season.

Bury would never be able to meet the terms of their CVA if they operated like that, and they would be wound up before the end of the season.

I think the only options for the two clubs are either to limp on until the end of this season, or liquidate and start again from the very bottom (North West Counties).

 

[Chris FGR]

Did you feel like that 4 years ago?

I didn't realise the impact relegation can have on a club in terms of jobs, academies etc. We now have a large full time academy structure, which is very dependent on central funding. Lose that and you damage the lives of a lot of people in an area where there aren't many other options football wise. Same applies to a lot of other league 2 clubs I'd imagine. At some point you need to think of the bigger picture. It's untenable at the minute. You could argue the same for the Premier League tbh.. Desperately trying to get up there is going to end up killing a lot of Championship clubs.

 

[RebornKirtonRed]

It's a big reason why, as I have stated previously, that this idea of promotion and relegation at the bottom of league 2 needs to be scrapped for the good of the game. The gap has already grown and it is now a tough step up. Shut up shop and allow all league 2 clubs to run themselves sensibly without the threat of relegation, job losses or loss of academy funding. Teams in the bottom half especially will be able to give a lot of young players more chances in the second half of the season, which is good for English football in general.

Those outside the league can then also cut their cloth accordingly, so those clubs wont go bust chasing the dream of league football either, which has been a big problem in non league in recent years.

................................................................

if that's what you think should happen - the good 'ole protectionist ' Closed Shop _ it's OUR ball and you can't play with it' system then FGR would never have been admitted to the EFL through the old Re-Election process in a month of Sundays.

 

[Chris FGR]

................................................................

if that's what you think should happen - the good 'ole protectionist ' Closed Shop _ it's OUR ball and you can't play with it' system then FGR would never have been admitted to the EFL through the old Re-Election process in a month of Sundays.

I disagree. Every area of the country should be represented in the football league by at least 2 clubs. Kids in South Glos and the Stroud Valley district now have a proper professional academy set up they can be spotted by and involved/developed in right on their doorstep, which was already the case for most other kids in regions across the country.

 

[Indian Dan]

I disagree. Every area of the country should be represented in the football league by at least 2 clubs. Kids in South Glos and the Stroud Valley district now have a proper professional academy set up they can be spotted by and involved/developed in right on their doorstep, which was already the case for most other kids in regions across the country.

Got to say, that’s the biggest load of tosh I’ve read in a long time. Why should just being an ‘area’ of the country qualify a club for league status.

 

[Chris FGR]

Got to say, that’s the biggest load of tosh I’ve read in a long time. Why should just being an ‘area’ of the country qualify a club for league status.

Same reason England should play games all around the country.

 

[AdamStag]

It's a big reason why, as I have stated previously, that this idea of promotion and relegation at the bottom of league 2 needs to be scrapped for the good of the game. The gap has already grown and it is now a tough step up. Shut up shop and allow all league 2 clubs to run themselves sensibly without the threat of relegation, job losses or loss of academy funding. Teams in the bottom half especially will be able to give a lot of young players more chances in the second half of the season, which is good for English football in general.

Those outside the league can then also cut their cloth accordingly, so those clubs wont go bust chasing the dream of league football either, which has been a big problem in non league in recent years.

What utter tripe.

If we do this can we replace you with a proper club that people actually like and is a decent away day, like Wrexham?

 

[Chris FGR]

What utter tripe.

If we do this can we replace you with a proper club that people actually like and is a decent away day, like Wrexham?

So you don't agree that kids/communities everywhere in the country deserve the same opportunities that having a football league club on their doorstep provides then. We now do a hell of a lot of work in the community that wasn't possible before.

Is 'having a decent away day' more important then allowing the whole country to enjoy football and communities everywhere benefit. As long as you're getting hammered somewhere decent, who cares about anyone else eh.

 

[Indian Dan]

If FGR didn’t exist as a league club any talented youngsters in South Glos and Stroud Valley would get picked up by us or the Bristol clubs or, really, any club that has a scouting network.

Making up a league structure based on the equality of geographic areas would kill the game dead in no time at all. Christ, even FGR have earned the right to be a league club based on years of steady growth and success - as it should be.

 

[loz]

So you don't agree that kids/communities everywhere in the country don't deserve the same opportunities that having a football league club on their doorstep provides then. We now do a hell of a lot of work in the community that wasn't possible before.

Surely any business that is on the up will say that and cite it as a reason for keeping up rather than rely on a protectionist system. The plight of famous old names such as Notts, Bolton and Bury is desperate, not least for their fans who should be left with their hope that they can fight back.

 

[The_Boss]

Good to see Chris turn this into a "looking after #1" thread, whilst most try to have a sensible discussion on the demise of two of the most historical clubs in all of th English game.

 

[AdamStag]

So you don't agree that kids/communities everywhere in the country deserve the same opportunities that having a football league club on their doorstep provides then. We now do a hell of a lot of work in the community that wasn't possible before.

Is 'having a decent away day' more important then allowing the whole country to enjoy football and communities everywhere benefit. As long as you're getting hammered somewhere decent, who cares about anyone else eh.

I fundamentally disagree that football league should be a closed shop with every fibre of my football being

 

[Chris FGR]

Good to see Chris turn this into a "looking after #1" thread, whilst most try to have a sensible discussion on the demise of two of the most historical clubs in all of th English game.

You're the one who started on the whole, 'no relegation is a good thing' for league 2 clubs tangent.

 

[Indian Dan]

Same reason England should play games all around the country.

But it’s not the same reason, is it? There’s no correlation between the national side playing through the country - which I agree with - and a league structure based on where you happen to be in the country.

Yorkshire has a lot of league clubs - kick a few of them out and replace with Truro City or somesuch. Absolute nonsense.

I don’t think it’s grass your eating - it’s what you’re smoking!